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Something doesn't add up about Paul Ryan.

Kandahar said:
Why



:lamo
Have you taken a look at Congress lately?



Their plan isn't great (i.e. chug along with the status quo) but Ryan's is a lot worse.
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Why? 16 trillion ion debt, no accountability, unsustainable spending across the board? Why? Seriously? My turn. :lamo

I've definitely seen congress. Sad thing is the same morons will be reelected by the same morons this year.

You dont like Ryans plan...you might consider actually OFFERING one. Ryans plan is just a plan. Status quo is killing us.
 
Tucker Case said:
Why should we care more about his rhetoric than his record?
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Rhetoric vs record is the reason that obama is currently president. So how about we talk about obama's record, his hidden past, and his socialist mentors? Hmmmmmm?
 
VanceMack said:
I agree...lets replace every single sitting member of congress and the executive branch...top down, and never let them run for office ever again.

Kind of funny seeing this from you. You REALLY believe that someone that voted for the GM bailout must have done so because he was corrupt, not because he didnt see it as the only viable (if not preferable) alternative? Wow...Tucker has joined the Sith...
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Really? Paul Ryan has been a 7 term congressman. He was and still apart of the problem. Voting for bailouts and now trying to claim he is a responsible is just laughable. If you don't see the spin or corruption here, your blind.
 
Bobcat said:
Rhetoric vs record is the reason that obama is currently president. So how about we talk about obama's record, his hidden past, and his socialist mentors? Hmmmmmm?
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Let me guess your source is Trump? Oh please tell me what is in Obama hidden past now? :liar2
 
VanceMack said:
Ah. I see. So...Ryan SHOULDNT be suggesting a way to fix the problem. No one that was involved int he creation of the problem should actually try to do something to FIX the problem. Well...THAT makes a lot of sense.
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If Ryan was SERIOUS about fixing the problem he would put together a plan that has at least some chance of actually being implemented. If he was serious he would recognize that any plan will have to appeal to both Republicans and Democrats ... or more accurately, spread the pain between them. But he isn't serious.
 
AdamT said:
If Ryan was SERIOUS about fixing the problem he would put together a plan that has at least some chance of actually being implemented. If he was serious he would recognize that any plan will have to appeal to both Republicans and Democrats ... or more accurately, spread the pain between them. But he isn't serious.
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The Ryan plan will appeal to anyone who actually takes the time to understand what is in it. It changes NOTHING for anyone 55 or over--NOTHING. For those under 54 they will have a choice--either continue with the current medicare or choose another plan that would also be funded by the government. Damn---how radical and scary is that?
 
VanceMack said:
Ah. I see. So...Ryan SHOULDNT be suggesting a way to fix the problem. No one that was involved int he creation of the problem should actually try to do something to FIX the problem. Well...THAT makes a lot of sense.
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The problem some of us have, is that Mr Ryan's plan(s) don't fix the problem - they are a combination of Randian rhetoric and pie in the sky Luntzian imagery with minimal connection to the real world.
 
VanceMack said:
No one suggested he was 'forced' to. GM was on the brink of total collapse. Could just be that even though he felt it wasnt a GREAT thing the alternative was worse. You either lack basic comprehension and critical thinking skills or are...well...a hack. I'll let you answer that...I dont know you well enough.
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LOL we have been hearing for months from Libertarians AND conservatives how the bailouts were all bad and shouldn't have been done. Now you're saying that you support Ryan because he felt the alternative would be worse yet you chastize Obama for doing the same thinking.

You are a hoot alright. Supporting Ryan and Romney you are either a hack or someone who lacks common sense. I'll let you answer that....I don't know you well enough.
 
AdamT said:
If Ryan was SERIOUS about fixing the problem he would put together a plan that has at least some chance of actually being implemented. If he was serious he would recognize that any plan will have to appeal to both Republicans and Democrats ... or more accurately, spread the pain between them. But he isn't serious.
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In a negotiation you frequently ask for the moon with an expectation to negotiate down. Heck, Ryan may actually believe in EVERY part of his plan, I dont know the man. Its EASY to bitch about someone that is actually offering an alternative without so much as engaging yourself and offering an alternative.

And I very much agree about 'spreading the pain, though I truly dont give a **** about democrats or republicans. The 'pain' is going to impact US...and I would rather see a controlled bleeding than a hematoma that bursts inward. Everyone is going to have to accept some pain. Defense has to be cut. Federal agencies has to be cut, especially where there are already existent state agencies. Services are going to have to be turned over to the state and private groups are going to have to step up. The rich ARE going to have to pay more as are the middle income. Or...not...and we'll just continue down the path we are on till it becomes unsustainable and instead of reduced service availability there will simply be none.
 
Vallista said:
Let me guess your source is Trump? Oh please tell me what is in Obama hidden past now? :liar2
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Turmp? nope.

A citizen who believes that we have the right to know who we are putting in the whitehouse with his hand on the nuclear trigger and our kids futures. We have the right to know how he paid his tuition at 3 very expensive schools, we have the right to know who he considers his mentors and what he believes.

His "you did not build it" statement tells alot about his ideology. What he did not say but implied should concern even the most liberal----since you did not build it, its not yours and you have to share it with everyone else.
 
Bobcat said:
The Ryan plan will appeal to anyone who actually takes the time to understand what is in it. It changes NOTHING for anyone 55 or over--NOTHING. For those under 54 they will have a choice--either continue with the current medicare or choose another plan that would also be funded by the government. Damn---how radical and scary is that?
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a little edit for one bit

"...choose another plan that would also be partially funded by the government."
 
TheNextEra said:
LOL we have been hearing for months from Libertarians AND conservatives how the bailouts were all bad and shouldn't have been done. Now you're saying that you support Ryan because he felt the alternative would be worse yet you chastize Obama for doing the same thinking.

You are a hoot alright. Supporting Ryan and Romney you are either a hack or someone who lacks common sense. I'll let you answer that....I don't know you well enough.
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I DONT agree with the bailouts. I wont be voting for Romney/Ryan OR Obama/Moron. I understand why someone could see the bailouts as a necessary evil. Personally I would have let the auto industry AND banking industry correct themselves. And you still havent answered the questions.
 
VanceMack said:
No one suggested he was 'forced' to. GM was on the brink of total collapse. Could just be that even though he felt it wasnt a GREAT thing the alternative was worse. You either lack basic comprehension and critical thinking skills or are...well...a hack. I'll let you answer that...I dont know you well enough.
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Sounds to me like he agreed with Obama. Doesn't that disqualify him as a Republican?
 
Somerville said:
The problem some of us have, is that Mr Ryan's plan(s) don't fix the problem - they are a combination of Randian rhetoric and pie in the sky Luntzian imagery with minimal connection to the real world.
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Great. You have a viable alternative. Thats exciting to hear!
 
TheNextEra said:
LOL we have been hearing for months from Libertarians AND conservatives how the bailouts were all bad and shouldn't have been done. Now you're saying that you support Ryan because he felt the alternative would be worse yet you chastize Obama for doing the same thinking.

You are a hoot alright. Supporting Ryan and Romney you are either a hack or someone who lacks common sense. I'll let you answer that....I don't know you well enough.
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The GM bailout was a terrible waste of taxpayer money, it Ryan voted for it, I disagree with him on that vote. But in no way does that make me want to vote for 4 more years of incompetence from obama.
 
VanceMack said:
I agree...lets replace every single sitting member of congress and the executive branch...top down, and never let them run for office ever again.
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No, people like Ron Paul who voted in a consistent manner with their ideology should not be held accountable for the incompetence of others. Only the people who have proven themselves incompetent at their jobs should be replaced (via the vote). Unfortunately, the only people more incompetent than our politicians are those who vote for them after these politicians prove themselves incompetent at their jobs (hint: their job isn't really running for office, it's running the country, but you'd never be able to figure that out by looking at their records. they all view their job as nothing more than "getting elected". That's why their votes are cast and their rhetoric is designed with that goal, and that goal only, in mind.)

You're a business owner. Would you keep someone around who has proven themselves incompetent and actually took steps to run your business into the ground? I mean someone who even goes around saying all the time that the actions that they took part in are destroying your business, they just try to downplay their role in the **** up. Would you really keep that person employed with your company?

If not, then why on Earth do you support politicians who fit the same description? You and your fellow voters have the power to replace their incompetent asses.

Unfortunately, our only viable options are people of equal incompetence. In order to distract from the fact that our choices are limited to people of equal incompetence, the debate centers around which one of them is more responsible for their incompetence.

So, yes, I do think that incompetent morons should be voted out of office. I find it quite horrifying that I'm not in the majority of people on this, but most people seems to be willing to excuse pure incompetence when the rhetoric the incompetent spews makes them feel all warm and squishy inside.

Kind of funny seeing this from you.
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Have you never read any of my posts about the two-party system? Because it shouldn't be surprising at all that I feel this way.

You REALLY believe that someone that voted for the GM bailout must have done so because he was corrupt, not because he didnt see it as the only viable (if not preferable) alternative?
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Someone who voted for the bailouts, yet claims to be a fiscal conservative, should not be allowed to hold political office.
 
Somerville said:
a little edit for one bit

"...choose another plan that would also be partially funded by the government."
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correct, and partially funded with employee investments, kinda like a 401K for retirement healthcare. why would it be bad for people to actually take part in funding their futures?
 
Bobcat said:
Turmp? nope.

A citizen who believes that we have the right to know who we are putting in the whitehouse with his hand on the nuclear trigger and our kids futures. We have the right to know how he paid his tuition at 3 very expensive schools, we have the right to know who he considers his mentors and what he believes.

His "you did not build it" statement tells alot about his ideology. What he did not say but implied should concern even the most liberal----since you did not build it, its not yours and you have to share it with everyone else.
Click to expand...

It's scary because you have to pay taxes on your profits? It apparently is to Romney, he doesn't pay income tax so he can't release his returns.
 
VanceMack said:
You dont like Ryans plan...you might consider actually OFFERING one. Ryans plan is just a plan. Status quo is killing us.
Click to expand...

I have offered plans. The solution to Medicare/Medicaid is to get costs under control by paying for quality instead of volume, and consolidating government bargaining power over the health care industry. The Affordable Care Act is a good start, but by no means the end. I would want to see how its cost control measures play out before crafting the next step.

For social security, the solution involves something similar to Bush's privatization plan, plus a smaller cost-of-living adjustment as found in one of the earlier iterations of Paul Ryan's plan. Recipients should be nudged into a low-risk, low-reward plan, although they should have the option to invest more heavily in stocks.

For defense, the solution is massive cuts, plain and simple. The future of warfare is robotic weaponry (e.g. drones, autonomous vehicles) and cybersecurity...not dogfights with the Russians.

For revenue, the solution is to raise taxes on the wealthy, simplify the tax code, reduce corporate taxes, shift our tax structure away from payroll taxes and toward income taxes. Although some of these things will probably need to wait until the economy is on more solid footing.

For most other discretionary spending, the solution is to leave it alone. Sure, there's some waste in other agencies, but it's tiny compared to what we can achieve from the above areas.
 
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Tucker Case said:
No, people like Ron Paul who voted in a consistent manner with their ideology should not be held accountable for the incompetence of others. Only the people who have proven themselves incompetent at their jobs should be replaced (via the vote). Unfortunately, the only people more incompetent than our politicians are those who vote for them after these politicians prove themselves incompetent at their jobs (hint: their job isn't really running for office, it's running the country, but you'd never be able to figure that out by looking at their records. they all view their job as nothing more than "getting elected". That's why their votes are cast and their rhetoric is designed with that goal, and that goal only, in mind.)

You're a business owner. Would you keep someone around who has proven themselves incompetent and actually took steps to run your business into the ground? I mean someone who even goes around saying all the time that the actions that they took part in are destroying your business, they just try to downplay their role in the **** up. Would you really keep that person employed with your company?

If not, then why on Earth do you support politicians who fit the same description? You and your fellow voters have the power to replace their incompetent asses.

Unfortunately, our only viable options are people of equal incompetence. In order to distract from the fact that our choices are limited to people of equal incompetence, the debate centers around which one of them is more responsible for their incompetence.

So, yes, I do think that incompetent morons should be voted out of office. I find it quite horrifying that I'm not in the majority of people on this, but most people seems to be willing to excuse pure incompetence when the rhetoric the incompetent spews makes them feel all warm and squishy inside.



Have you never read any of my posts about the two-party system? Because it shouldn't be surprising at all that I feel this way.



Someone who voted for the bailouts, yet claims to be a fiscal conservative, should not be allowed to hold political office.
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I TRULY would not keep ANY of them. Thats not rhetoric. I would see every one of them replaced. However that isnt going to happen.

There is a scene in Rocky...you know it...the "cut me Mick" scene. A trainer cutting a fighter is not exactly an ideal scenario...unless the fighter as a hematoma that is swollen to the point of completely blocking his vision or worse. I know...silly analogy. GM was facing a collapse. That you honestly lack the ability to see how someone could DISAGREE with a bailout plan, yet still see it as a necessary evil is ASTOUNDING. Well...I take that back. For mindless hacks it is understandable...they only see what they want to see.
 
iguanaman said:
It's scary because you have to pay taxes on your profits? It apparently is to Romney, he doesn't pay income tax so he can't release his returns.
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the taxes that he released show that he paid millions in FIT. they also show that he gave millions to charity. how much did obama and biden give to charity?

will you guys ever stop the lies? all this lying is making you and your messiah look like desperate fools.
 
Bobcat said:
Turmp? nope.

A citizen who believes that we have the right to know who we are putting in the whitehouse with his hand on the nuclear trigger and our kids futures. We have the right to know how he paid his tuition at 3 very expensive schools, we have the right to know who he considers his mentors and what he believes.

His "you did not build it" statement tells alot about his ideology. What he did not say but implied should concern even the most liberal----since you did not build it, its not yours and you have to share it with everyone else.
Click to expand...

...................:golf......oh did you say something?........oh my bad continue............:golf..........crap! I won't do it again sorry...ok finish what you were saying? I'm fine with that. As long as Romney show his 12 years of his taxes returns and Ryan, Romney show us their donors. Then lets play ball. :beat
 
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Kandahar said:
I have offered plans. The solution to Medicare/Medicaid is to get costs under control by paying for quality instead of volume, and consolidating government bargaining power over the health care industry. The Affordable Care Act is a good start, but by no means the end. I would want to see how its cost control measures play out before crafting the next step.

For social security, the solution involves something similar to Bush's privatization plan, plus a smaller cost-of-living adjustment as found in one of the earlier iterations of Paul Ryan's plan. Recipients should be nudged into a low-risk, low-reward plan, although they should have the option to invest more heavily in stocks.

For defense, the solution is massive cuts, plain and simple. The future of warfare is robotic weapons (e.g. drones, autonomous vehicles) and cybersecurity...not dogfights with the Russians.

For revenue, the solution is to raise taxes on the wealthy, simplify the tax code, reduce corporate taxes, shift our tax structure away from payroll taxes and toward income taxes. Although some of these things will probably need to wait until the economy is on more solid footing.

For most other discretionary spending, the solution is to leave it alone. Sure, there's some waste in other agencies, but it's tiny compared to what we can achieve from the above areas.
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Wow...if you and I were running the world, I would bet we could actually see some real change. I AGREE with much of that and have said so. I would also dramatically cut defense spending. I would kill the Fed Dept of Education and Transportation...switch interstate concerns to Commerce and kill off ALL the Czars. We are on a roll...keep going!
 
Tucker Case said:
He voted for the bailouts of the auto industry (SOCIALISM!!!!!) and he voted for the $700 billion bailouts of the banks (SOCIALISM!!!!!), so why the hell are people calling him a fiscal conservative?

Can someone explain this one to me, because it just doesn't make any ****ing sense. Thanks.
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They call him fiscal conservative because it's a relative term on the political landscape. What doesn't add up is why you give a ****.

You got biden and obama or romney and ryan.

Are you concerned ryan is not as fiscally conservative as biden or obama, then?
 
VanceMack said:
You shouldnt. You should care about it all. But isnt it just a TEENSY bit hypocritical to make that point towards Ryan and not towards every politician in the race, or for that matter, congress? A lot of people said at the time...I dont like having to vote for the auto industry bailout but believe it is the only way to keep it afloat.
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So yes, Ryan is a Republocrat and part of the Status Quo. Many politicians act in this same way, one of the big reasons we're in the current boat we're in. So Ryan isn't so much for solving problems, but rather perpetuating the ones we have already. Woot.
 
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