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Iowa deli co-owner caters for Obama visit, but his T-shirt tells another story

rocket88 said:
The McDonald brothers didn't invent the hamburger either. For that matter, neither did Wendy (or her dad, Dave Thomas).
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That is kind of my point.
 
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Vallista said:
@VanceMack and tessaesque let me make this easy for you. This guy didn't build it. Yes I said it. Here is the dark little secret that everyone on this thread know, however I have to shed into light, He had a BLUEPRINT! What?!@# I know, your asking yourself why. Because this guy wasn't smart enough to do it on his own. He had to google search "Burgers" "Catering" or I'm betting he stole someone business model and copied it. Do I care? No. He pretty much put this crap together like legos.
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Thanks for confirming that there is absolutely zero value in 'debating' or discussing anything with you.
 
It always amazes me when the American people buy into a line and actually believe the propoganda like this.....along the same lines as Al Gore saying he invented the internet and Sarah Palin saying she can see Russia from her house.

Are the American people really that stupid?
 
disneydude said:
It always amazes me when the American people buy into a line and actually believe the propoganda like this.....along the same lines as Al Gore saying he invented the internet and Sarah Palin saying she can see Russia from her house.

Are the American people really that stupid?
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you would be surprised with people like VanceMack.
 
Seriously....sometimes I wonder if people actually pay attention beyond one-liners and propoganda. It really makes you lose faith in the American people when this kind of BS gets perpetuated...and that goes for both sides of the political spectrum.
 
disneydude said:
It always amazes me when the American people buy into a line and actually believe the propoganda like this.....along the same lines as Al Gore saying he invented the internet and Sarah Palin saying she can see Russia from her house.

Are the American people really that stupid?
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Actually...yes...they are. Ive said it before and in this thread...it wasnt about 'you didnt build this'...it was about hey, poor people...come on...reelect me and I will go after more of the wealth of the successful for you. After all...they stole YOUR pennies to succeed and you are entitled to your 'fair share'."

His message was quite clear.
 
VanceMack said:
Actually...yes...they are. Ive said it before and in this thread...it wasnt about 'you didnt build this'...it was about hey, poor people...come on...reelect me and I will go after more of the wealth of the successful for you. After all...they stole YOUR pennies to succeed and you are entitled to your 'fair share'."

His message was quite clear.
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^^^^Case in point. Thank You VM for proving the point. It really is amazing.
 
ChuckBerry said:
To the OP, yet another reactionary who deliberately missed the president's point. Talking points ≠ political discourse. Yet another victim of right wing talk radio.
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Yes, the president's point was that because no man is an island the federal government has a right to confiscate weath as it deems fit in order to distribute it to the special interests it chooses in order to perpetuate the power of the governing party.

Because no man who runs a business built the roads that take his goods to market, and because there are other smart hard working people, others without wealth should not feel bad about using government compulsion to extract wealth from those who succeeded because they took risks and it paid off for them, and in fact should clamour to confiscate even more wealth from those who generate it.

THAT was the president's point. This class warfare BS, combined with the rightous outrage in his speach at the incredulity of a business owner having the audacity to think that the fruits of his labours are his own because he is "smart" or "works hard", was indeed the entire point of what Obama said. He was saying, flat out, that everyone who earns money OWES the federal government for the privilege of making that money, and that anyone who believes they already are paying their "fair share" is a freeloader on public infrastructure. He is also saying to actual freeloaders that they not only should not feel bad about being freeloaders but that their freeloading is, in fact, social justice, because more productive members of society OWE them those free handouts.

The president's argument can be used to support user fees for infrastructure. They cannot be used to justify massive wealth transfers from those who generate wealth to those who do not.

I really don't get how his supporters on the left don't see any of this.
 
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disneydude said:
^^^^Case in point. Thank You VM for proving the point. It really is amazing.
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Ah...so you DIDNT hear it...well...you prove SOMETHING alright...
 
Helix said:
as has been pointed out ad nauseum, the quote was taken out of context on purpose. however, i'll play ball.

how did the burgers, buns, and cooking equipment get to the restaurant?
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perhaps on a federal road, but more likely not.

also, how did the business owner and his tee shirt get there?
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likely through a port, which generally have sizeable fees associated with using them such that the various governments are more than compensated for their operation, along with roads, again most of which are not federal and which have quasi user-fees (i.e., gas taxes and various licensing and registration requirements) associated with them.

finally, by what electronic means was he able to get his protest, which stands to gain him a new conservative customer base, seen by countless potential customers?
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By the interwebs, which Al Gore invented (oh sorry, it was Kodak that invented the Internet. My bad.)

having covered those points, did he build those roads and the internet by himself? does his business benefit from public projects?
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Wow. Sounds like he got the worst deal ever on that infrastructure. So because he uses it, he should pa, what, 40% of his net income to the govenrtment? If we want to play that game, what about all of the taxes generated for the govenrment by importing the t-shirt, sourcing the burgers, hiring the workers, etc?

This whole conversation is dumb. Ultimately, he makes more money than his worker because he shoulders the ultimate risk. If his business succeeds, he does very well. If it doesn't, he looses his investment. Otherwise, he could have left that money in a 401k and let it earn a few points a year while he drew a salary. But he didn't. And he is entitled to the rewards associated with taking that risk.

And see, unlike the vapid democratic talking point on this issue, I am not arguing that he should pay no taxes because he is entitled to all of the fruits of his labours, because we all face a reality of paying for our govenrment. But the dem talking point that because you might use an interstate to transport goods means that the govenrment can as of right take as much money from you as it wants and give that money to anyone else it wants is pure poppycock.
 
Vallista said:
oh I am, This whole you didn't build this or I build it, is kinda stupid. The truth, this guy only organized this business. He didn't come up with the idea of catering, cooking, food, business model or any else. The problem have with people like this is the following, everything I mention about the catering, cooking, and etc those techniques or models all came from community people before him, that was FREE. He learn all of skills from community people that shared their ideas, techniques, and models AT NO COST! I'll give his credit for putting all of it together in a package that he can turn into a income stream. But don't me that CRAP about creating it on your own. He full of $hit. Catering have been around forever, I'm betting he model his "business" after someone or a group. Am I lying about that? The most insulting this about is he still uses public road, real estate, energy, communication and the public domain to promote his business free of charge. So fock him. :cheers:
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You're scarey. If everything's right in front of one's face who wants to build a business, why is there unemployment?
 
TheNextEra said:
I just see it as unprofessional in general which is something we see more and more in society. It's not what motivated him to wear the T-Shirt that I think is unprofessional, it's the fact he wore it. Regardless of whether it was a dig at his partner or politically motivated by himself, it is unprofessional to me. Again, just my opinion.
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Unprofessional ... probably. However,

VanceMack said:
Dood was offering catering to a bunch of pool reporters. Bit of a difference. But your general sense of outrage and upset is duly noted. Im sure there will be morons with classless signs and shirts at the RNC and other Romney campaigns and you will have a chance then to lay into them.
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Since this catering was done for 'pool reporters' ... the story is blown totally out of proportion. More proof that when it's a slow news day, this kind of tripe fills in the gap.

Having said all that ... My opinion is that this is yet another FREE SPEECH issue, a la the Chick-fil-A.

P.S. If I have misspelled anything ... so what.

A L
 
Vallista said:
Lets make this easy for you. Where did he learn to make burgers? I mean really. Where did he learn to make burgers? At University of Iowa? He learned his skill set for free. Get it free! One more time so you understand, FREE! :hammer: Making burgers and fries is not hard thing to do. You act like he inventing it. :roll:
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So what? The free exchange of ideas in an open society is the way it works. Just because IP rights over something expire (or were never granted) does not mean that therefore the government has an implicit IP right and anyone exploiting that IP must pay the government whatever it asks.

Technology difuses. Information difuses. That's the beauty of an open society. And yes, that is a justification for maintaining the continued existence of our society vs, say, a hunter-gatherer clan-based society. But it is most definitely NOT a justification for the govenrment to shift from confiscating 35% of someone's earnings to confiscating 40% of that person's earnings in order to transfer that wealth to some student taking an art history degree in order to explore his inner self before getting a job as assistant manager at The Gap.

The "it takes a village" observation is not a sufficient justification for complete govenrment control over all output or wealth generated by that system. And I don't think it gets you any further along than we are right now.

In fact, it probably goes further in the opposite direction, with respect to the 50% of people that pay no federal income taxes. Cause they are trully, genuinely free-riding on everything everyone else has done, without contributing anything at all back into the system. After all, they didn't invent TV, cell phones, refridgerators, cars, beer, schools, hospitals, etc.

So shouldn't they contribute something before you tell the guy giving 150k that he should really be giving 200k?
 
rocket88 said:
The McDonald brothers didn't invent the hamburger either. For that matter, neither did Wendy (or her dad, Dave Thomas).
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I believe Colonel Sanders invented the secret recipe in his Kentucky Fried Chicken which makes it oh-so delicious (and yet nauseating at the same time).
 
disneydude said:
^^^^Case in point. Thank You VM for proving the point. It really is amazing.
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Sorry, have to disagree. I've listened to his whole speech there at least a half dozen times, and I do agree that in context the statement(s) are just as, if not more, problematic than out of context. Sure he didn't say you didn't build your business, but he alo said that the success of your business is not cause you are special but because of the government.

And that is just a lousy message.
 
I don't believe the Colonel did "invent" the recipe, but even so, he didn't collect, grow, pick, process and pack the ingredients all by himself.
 
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Manc Skipper said:
I don't believe the Colonel did "invent" the recipe, but even so, he didn't collect, grow, pick, process and pack the ingredients all by himself.
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Of course he didn't. But I would suspect that as a result of the economic activity relating to his business, even excluding any taxes his business paid, he generated a small fortune for the govenrment and for other members of society (like, you know, workers).

The economic dissonance in this entire argument is staggering, and belies absolute ignorance about how market economies actually work, how they generate welath, and how that wealth difuses to other members of society and to government.

What kind of risk did Apple take with the iPhone or the iPad? How many billions of investor dollars went into those gambles? Worked out pretty well for Apple, right. I'm sure that is what you're thinking.

OK then, so let's shift targets. How many billions of dollars did RIM invest in their playbook? How well did that work out for them? Who pays for that, taxpayers or investors?

And in all this, who benefitted from all of this while paying WAY less for these products than it would have costy them to build them all themselves? Guess what, YOU did. I did. And every other consumer did.

And in that entire process, each company employed thousands of people, each one of which would not have work were it not for the output created by those companies and each one of which pays taxes to support those who do not work. Each one of them drove to work on the same roads that takes their employers' goods to market. And each one of them spends that money, generating additional taxes on incomes of business people who earn that money, from the sales taxes imposed when spending, and so on.

So yeah, explain to me why investors in Apple or RIM or fat joe's catering should pay any more taxes than anyone else? Cause there are a whole bunch of reasons why they should pay less, but I don't really see any for why they should pay more.
 
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CJ 2.0 said:
Sorry, have to disagree. I've listened to his whole speech there at least a half dozen times, and I do agree that in context the statement(s) are just as, if not more, problematic than out of context. Sure he didn't say you didn't build your business, but he alo said that the success of your business is not cause you are special but because of the government.

And that is just a lousy message.
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That wasn't the message at all. The message was that businesses succeed partly on their own efforts but also because of infrastructure with taxes and government provide. The point of the message was that businesses and government should work together to provide the greatest benefit to the people.

But simple minded people prefer one line "I can see Russia from my house" propoganda. Sad
 
Another Lurker said:
Unprofessional ... probably. However,



Since this catering was done for 'pool reporters' ... the story is blown totally out of proportion. More proof that when it's a slow news day, this kind of tripe fills in the gap.

Having said all that ... My opinion is that this is yet another FREE SPEECH issue, a la the Chick-fil-A.

P.S. If I have misspelled anything ... so what.

A L
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Well of course it's free speech. I didn't say otherwise.

However, I guess I come from a different line of people when it comes to providing a service like catering.

Professionalism is lost on some I guess.
 
Helix said:
as has been pointed out ad nauseum, the quote was taken out of context on purpose. however, i'll play ball.

how did the burgers, buns, and cooking equipment get to the restaurant?

also, how did the business owner and his tee shirt get there? finally, by what electronic means was he able to get his protest, which stands to gain him a new conservative customer base, seen by countless potential customers?

having covered those points, did he build those roads and the internet by himself? does his business benefit from public projects?
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No matter how you slice it, Obama was trying to prove how great government is, and how it SO needs to be a BIG part of everything. That's the real point, and the one being denounced by the right.
 
Vallista said:
oh I am, This whole you didn't build this or I build it, is kinda stupid. The truth, this guy only organized this business. He didn't come up with the idea of catering, cooking, food, business model or any else. The problem have with people like this is the following, everything I mention about the catering, cooking, and etc those techniques or models all came from community people before him, that was FREE. He learn all of skills from community people that shared their ideas, techniques, and models AT NO COST! I'll give his credit for putting all of it together in a package that he can turn into a income stream. But don't me that CRAP about creating it on your own. He full of $hit. Catering have been around forever, I'm betting he model his "business" after someone or a group. Am I lying about that? The most insulting this about is he still uses public road, real estate, energy, communication and the public domain to promote his business free of charge. So fock him. :cheers:
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He also risked his own money to do so, hence, he "built the business".

The lack of resepct that Libbos have for entrepreneurs is what is so amazing.
 
disneydude said:
That wasn't the message at all. The message was that businesses succeed partly on their own efforts but also because of infrastructure with taxes and government provide. The point of the message was that businesses and government should work together to provide the greatest benefit to the people.

But simple minded people prefer one line "I can see Russia from my house" propoganda. Sad
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That may be what you wish the point had been; it even should have been the point. However, that's no where close to what he was actually saying.

The fact is, the government needs the private sector way more than the private sector needs the government.
 
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