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Is this what Romney is hiding in his Taxes???

I guess it just the Repubs that have to meet your "high" standard.

I'm stillng voting Romney and I'm in a "swing" state. ;)

No, I would certainly have a problem with Obama if he was refusing to release his tax returns, especially if one year showed some questionable conduct. And I have absolutely no doubt that Republicans would be going ape**** over it if their behaviors were reversed.
 
No, I would certainly have a problem with Obama if he was refusing to release his tax returns, especially if one year showed some questionable conduct. And I have absolutely no doubt that Republicans would be going ape**** over it if their behaviors were reversed.

He has released his tax returns.

You know and I know this is all part of the "Obama political stratgey". It's called deflect the conversation from the stinking joblessness, unemployment and tanking economy by asking about tax returns because Obama can't stand on his p*ss poor record. :lol:
 
No, I would certainly have a problem with Obama if he was refusing to release his tax returns, especially if one year showed some questionable conduct. And I have absolutely no doubt that Republicans would be going ape**** over it if their behaviors were reversed.

there was no "questionable conduct" in the returns that he released----------please stop lying.
 
If you don't like the tax code and all it's loopholes, then you know who to blame . . . . . your own elected Rep.

Defending greed now? Rich people don't have to launder money in the Caymen's and have Swiss Bank accounts. It's a choice, and saving taxes this way at his level makes those choices unseemly for a candidate for President. That's why he's hiding them. Ask any tax expert, you don't see $100 million + IRA's very often either.
 
there was no "questionable conduct" in the returns that he released----------please stop lying.

Sure there's questionable conduct, as in conduct that raises questions that have not been answered. At the top of the list are his foreign bank accounts and his almost impossibly large IRA.
 
Romney Persona Non Grata in Italy for Bain

"Bain funneled profits through subsidiaries in Luxembourg, a common corporate strategy for avoiding income taxes in other European countries..."

"In Italy, the deals have spurred at least three books, separate legal and regulatory probes and newspaper columns alleging investors made a fortune at the expense of Italian taxpayers."

Looks like Bain screwed over Italy big time. I think Romney just lost the Italian-American vote...

Okay...let me see if I understand this...

Bain was part of a group that bought a telephone-directory company from the Italian government and then sold it about two years later, at the peak of the technology bubble, for about 25 times what it paid.

Okay...so they bought low and sold high. Sounds pretty smart to me.

Bain funneled profits through subsidiaries in Luxembourg, a common corporate strategy for avoiding income taxes in other European countries, according to documents reviewed by Bloomberg News.

Again...pretty smart. They found a legal way to keep their own money.

The buyer, Italy’s biggest telephone company, now has a total market value less than what it paid Bain and other investors for the directory business.

That phone company is in bad shape, eh? Hmmm...maybe they should have hired Bain to manage them. Chances are those smart guys at Bain could have helped them.

In Italy, the deals have spurred at least three books, separate legal and regulatory probes and newspaper columns alleging investors made a fortune at the expense of Italian taxpayers. Boston-based Bain wasn’t a subject of the inquiries, which didn’t result in any charges.

Now wait a minute... There were all kinds of investigations, but they were NOT investigating Bain. And no charges were filed against Bain. ???

WTF, CONSagainROMNEY?? Why did you even START this thread? There's no story here!!

Oh, wait...I forgot. You are a partisan hack.

No problem...I understand now.
 
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Again, no. Doesn't work like that. Bain issues him a W2 form to include his salary plus any bonuses, his interest income is reported as such on another form and his tax accounts use those forms to files his returns. Individual deals made by the company are not included as line items on his PERSONAL returns.

To see who made how much on any particular deal the COMPANY made, you have to take a peek at the company's returns.

Actually you are not correct ClownBoy... Bain Capital will likely have been formed as a investment management company. This could take many actual forms, but most likely is a partnership or LLC. Most investment banking companies pay their partners a modest salary $100-200K per year, with the real earnings coming from year end bonuses or partner distribution of earnings AND direct participation in the firm's various funds. These firms raise money from investors such as pensions and college endowments, parking them in funds which have specific investment target criteria and life. Bain earns money from managing the funds, including selecting and managing the investments. Bain probably managed a dozen or so of such funds. Bain Capital partners and employees would be paid from the management fee revenue, with that likely reported on a W-2, but that is not where Bain partners made their serious money.

The serious money made by the partners of Bain will have been from actual participation in the funds. To some extent they may have made personal investments in the funds, but more likely they acquired the shares as an earn-out for raising the funds in the first place. They then participate pari passu with the investors in Bain investments. Most of Romney's tax returns would be comprised of K-1's, which are used by partnerships and LLCs to communicate the individual portion of partnership or LLC earnings. He likely would have received several K-1's just from his participation in each of the Bain funds. Moreover, it is not a-typical for partners of investment banks to make individual investments in target companies. The accounting for those also likely flowed to his personal return in the form of another K-1. That all said, the K-1s would not be all that interesting, but a guy like Romney may have had 100-200 K-1s. Most of them would be innocuous, but some of them would be quite interesting. Moreover, the sheer volume of K-1s would demonstrate just how complicated his return and his financial affairs are. Then, to the extent he used personal holding companies and off-shore holdings as a conduit for his investments in Bain and related companies, now you own news-cycles.

Notwithstanding the financial structure he set up to protect him from taxes on Bain investments, how he invested his personal money would likely show up on his return. To the extent he participated in credit default swaps and other egregious financial sins of the mid-decade, Romney would be public flogged and probably rightfully so.

Then, someone would be able to reasonably extrapolate how much of his wealth is off-shored. If much of his wealth is outside the US (which is likely), it would be pretty easy to filet the whole notion that giving tax cuts to the very wealthy works its way back into our economy, as he would be a great example of the fatal flaw in that theory (the money actually leaves the country and does America little good). This could undercut any serious argument to extend tax cuts on upper incomes, and certainly destroy any discussion of further cuts.

Then, of course, there is the simple question of effective tax rate, which is well documented as being no greater than 15% and probably less.

No matter how you slice it, the Romney tax returns are red meat for the Dems. It would be pretty easy to pick them apart and have a field day with them in the public forum. I don't blame him for trying to weather the criticism. Its better to let people speculate than show them the truth and remove the doubt.
 
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Defending greed now? Rich people don't have to launder money in the Caymen's and have Swiss Bank accounts. It's a choice, and saving taxes this way at his level makes those choices unseemly for a candidate for President. That's why he's hiding them. Ask any tax expert, you don't see $100 million + IRA's very often either.

Really?

Los Angeles Times - California, national and world news - latimes.com -"Joe Kennedy set his family trusts so they would be hidden from public scrutiny," Posner tells us. "So although it's possible to get a lot of information from real estate records, Senate and congressional disclosure forms, and published reports over several decades, many details remain secrets known only to the Kennedys."

The Straight Dope - Fighting Ignorance Since 1973 - "Joseph P. Kennedy was the ambitious son of a prosperous Boston saloon keeper and ward boss. He married the mayor's daughter, went to Harvard, and generally made the most of his ample connections and talent. He ran a bank (admittedly two-bit) at 25, and was number-two man at a shipyard with more than 2,000 workers during World War I. At 30 he became a stockbroker and made a fortune through insider trading and stock manipulation. He was a master of the stock pool, a then-legal stunt in which a few traders conspired to inflate a stock's price, selling out just before the bubble burst."


Greed has been around a very, very long time.
 
Really?

Los Angeles Times - California, national and world news - latimes.com -"Joe Kennedy set his family trusts so they would be hidden from public scrutiny," Posner tells us. "So although it's possible to get a lot of information from real estate records, Senate and congressional disclosure forms, and published reports over several decades, many details remain secrets known only to the Kennedys."

The Straight Dope - Fighting Ignorance Since 1973 - "Joseph P. Kennedy was the ambitious son of a prosperous Boston saloon keeper and ward boss. He married the mayor's daughter, went to Harvard, and generally made the most of his ample connections and talent. He ran a bank (admittedly two-bit) at 25, and was number-two man at a shipyard with more than 2,000 workers during World War I. At 30 he became a stockbroker and made a fortune through insider trading and stock manipulation. He was a master of the stock pool, a then-legal stunt in which a few traders conspired to inflate a stock's price, selling out just before the bubble burst."


Greed has been around a very, very long time.

But you have not contradicted the point that it is a choice.
 
Nice write up, upside. Good job of spelling out exactly what I think he's really trying to hide. Sad thing is, I think is one of the key things our country should be looking at to regain its health, but the politics of the day are to sweep it under the rug and try and pull heart strings about things that matter much less. Even if Romney wins, if/when the story of his finances is told, most Americans will be shocked that our setup financially encourages poor practice and off shoring. I really hope we can start examining these things and reforming our tax code. Of course, Romney wants to make any money outside our borders untouchable...

Anyone else here think he might also be hiding that received amnesty to bring some of that money back home? Would that be apparent in his returns?
 
You know that the president doesn't write tax laws, right?

Unless you are President Obama. Remember this rewrite?

Obama tweaks birth control rule

Or how about this article detailing the Democrat ties of several companies and their bail out funding. GE was one of them, even though they brought in $14 billion in profit internationally...they still got a multi-billion dollar bail out...all over seen by President Obama.

Rational Irrationality: Obama’s Bailout Boys : The New Yorker
 
@Mycroft, the issue isnt whether Bain was very effective at making profits. They were. We all know that. The issue is HOW they made that money and who they victimized in their conquest for the almighty dollar. It is a referendum on the Vulture Capitalism that is at the core of Romeny's beliefs. The AMerican voter must decides if we want a kinder, gentler nation as imagined by Bush41 or do we want a cut throat "greed-is-good" nation led by dishonest Tricky Dicky types?

there was no "questionable conduct" in the returns that he released----------please stop lying.

From the measley tax return that RINO Romney released there was no information regarding his Swiss bank account. THerefore his tax returns were incomplete. Incomplete tax returns equals "questionable conduct"...


Sure there's questionable conduct, as in conduct that raises questions that have not been answered. At the top of the list are his foreign bank accounts and his almost impossibly large IRA.

According to the Italy telecom deal Romney made 60 million. THat was just ONE deal. And that was profit that he made while he was supposedly no longer working for Bain (DOes ripping off a country that is involved in the Olympics WHILE you are in charge of the Olympics NOT seem like a conflict in interest to anyone else but me). So if he made 60 million on that ONE deal, it seems hard to believe that he is only worth 250 million as his tax returns claimed...
 
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From the measley tax return that RINO Romney released there was no information regarding his Swiss bank account. THerefore his tax returns were incomplete. Incomplete tax returns equals "questionable conduct"...




According to the Italy telecom deal Romney made 60 million. THat was just ONE deal. And that was profit that he made while he was supposedly no longer working for Bain (DOes ripping off a country that is involved in the Olympics WHILE you are in charge of the Olympics NOT seem like a conflict in interest to anyone else but me). So if he made 60 million on that ONE deal, it seems hard to believe that he is only worth 250 million as his tax returns claimed...

this thread belongs in the conspiracy forum.
 
From the measley tax return that RINO Romney released there was no information regarding his Swiss bank account. THerefore his tax returns were incomplete. Incomplete tax returns equals "questionable conduct"...

You mean you question the ability of yet another inept government arm that is incompetent to review a tax return.


According to the Italy telecom deal Romney made 60 million. THat was just ONE deal. And that was profit that he made while he was supposedly no longer working for Bain (DOes ripping off a country that is involved in the Olympics WHILE you are in charge of the Olympics NOT seem like a conflict in interest to anyone else but me). So if he made 60 million on that ONE deal, it seems hard to believe that he is only worth 250 million as his tax returns claimed...

In bold, "IF" is the key word. Try dealing with facts.

And are you suggesting a person cannot invest in foreign countries? Is that illegal? And was Romney not allowed to make money while he was managing the Olympics, that he did not take a dime in pay?

"Ripping Off" you mean making a profit that both sides agreed too. I guess your suggesting the Italians are so stupid and entered into a bad deal, if that's the case they deserve what they got.

Last, yeah, it is only you that thinks it was a conflict of interest.
 
You mean you question the ability of yet another inept government arm that is incompetent to review a tax return.




In bold, "IF" is the key word. Try dealing with facts.

And are you suggesting a person cannot invest in foreign countries? Is that illegal? And was Romney not allowed to make money while he was managing the Olympics, that he did not take a dime in pay?

"Ripping Off" you mean making a profit that both sides agreed too. I guess your suggesting the Italians are so stupid and entered into a bad deal, if that's the case they deserve what they got.

Last, yeah, it is only you that thinks it was a conflict of interest.

We all would love the facts, but they are not forthcoming. That is Romneys problem.
 
You mean you question the ability of yet another inept government arm that is incompetent to review a tax return.




In bold, "IF" is the key word. Try dealing with facts.

And are you suggesting a person cannot invest in foreign countries? Is that illegal? And was Romney not allowed to make money while he was managing the Olympics, that he did not take a dime in pay?

"Ripping Off" you mean making a profit that both sides agreed too. I guess your suggesting the Italians are so stupid and entered into a bad deal, if that's the case they deserve what they got.

Last, yeah, it is only you that thinks it was a conflict of interest.

Again, there is a big difference between what is LEGAL and what is ETHICAL. Prior to the 1860s it was legal to own slaves. But it was unethical. It was once legal to dismiss meat packing workers who fell into rendering tanks to simply be ground up, along with animal parts, into "Durham's Pure Leaf Lard" and then sold to the general public. But it was unethical.
Taking advantage of others for profit may be legal, but it is not ethical. THAT is the core of what this election is about. WHat kind of country do we want to live in?
 
We all would love the facts, but they are not forthcoming. That is Romneys problem.

two years of tax returns is the norm. this is much ado about nothing. Its all about taking the discussion away from obama's terrible record as presiden and his questionable past---------------------------------and you know it, all of you on the left know why this is being done.
 
Again, there is a big difference between what is LEGAL and what is ETHICAL. Prior to the 1860s it was legal to own slaves. But it was unethical. It was once legal to dismiss meat packing workers who fell into rendering tanks to simply be ground up, along with animal parts, into "Durham's Pure Leaf Lard" and then sold to the general public. But it was unethical.
Taking advantage of others for profit may be legal, but it is not ethical. THAT is the core of what this election is about. WHat kind of country do we want to live in?



LOL, thats really funny. You say that and yet you support the most unethical person ever to live in the whitehouse. Amazing.
 
two years of tax returns is the norm. this is much ado about nothing. Its all about taking the discussion away from obama's terrible record as presiden and his questionable past---------------------------------and you know it, all of you on the left know why this is being done.

YOu are stuck in a Partisan box Bobcat. RINO Romney's tax returns has nothing to do with Left or Right. This nation is about to hold an election for POTUS. The results will determine which course our country will follow over the next 4 years. In order to make a good decision voters must have as much information on the candidates as possible. ANY candidate that hides information from the AMerican voters and does not respect the American people enough to deal with them on the up and up, is NOT someone we want to guide this great nation over the net 4 years.
 
But you have not contradicted the point that it is a choice.

Is it legal?

Again, if you don't like the loopholes in tha tax code, then put the blame where it lies, in the hands of our elected representatives.
 
Is it legal?

Again, if you don't like the loopholes in tha tax code, then put the blame where it lies, in the hands of our elected representatives.

Which is exatly why we shouldnt elect unethical polticians like RINO "I actually voted to flip before I voted to flop" Romney...
 
Is it legal?

Again, if you don't like the loopholes in tha tax code, then put the blame where it lies, in the hands of our elected representatives.

Abortion is legal too, yet that doesn't stop Pro-lifers from attacking those getting the abortions instead of those that could change the law.
 
Which is exatly why we shouldnt elect unethical polticians like RINO "I actually voted to flip before I voted to flop" Romney...

No offense but in the grand scheme of things, I believe most (as in 95%) of all politicians are unethical (not talking about legal ethics either) in some way or another.
 
Why hasn't this thread been moved to the Conspiracy forum? Why?
 
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