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Romney: Muslims are culturally inferior to Jews [W:412]

And why would you argue antisemitism was part of European culture? I don't see any evidence of it being part of the culture or any culture at all. It seemed to be more linked to ignorance and fear... things they couldn't control and didn't understand, and it was the same with women. Jewish people and women were blamed for the Black Death, droughts, and every other frightening, explainable event people in the Middle Ages and Dark Ages couldn't understand. I don't think that's just part of the culture, it just part of not understanding modern science, germs, and medicine. Women and Jewish people were blamed for a number of things, and it seems common for people across all cultures behave irrationally and wrongly blame somebody or something under such circumstances. It's also far from uncommon for modern people to not trust outsiders and foreigners, and it's obvious in America today. That attitude will probably never change in people.

But if you really want to talk about the savagery in American history, then would you seriously and honestly just chalk it all up to American culture?

Just plain old fashion American culture is to blame for slavery, genocide, the Trail of Tears, witch burnings, and decades of inequality????

If you did pin slavery and witch burnings on American culture, you know how silly you would sound, right? And that's exactly what you're doing except you're doing it to a difference nation.

If you want to talk about what caused the Salem trials and the Calvinist belief system, property rights, and women owning property; then that has more clout than writing it all of as a symptom of American culture.

I'm not at all sure what it is you are trying to say. Clearly anti-semitism was rooted in European culture, it traces its roots from multiple sources including the late years of the Roman Republic and the birth pangs of the Christian church, and much more. All of the things you are saying are euphemisms for culture. "It's not culture, its fear and ignorance..." whatever you want to call it I don't really care. We can call it "X" and so my point is the X of the Levantine countries as opposed to the X of Israel is a major contributing factor in the gaps of prosperity and stability.
 
You are linking to an article that says race is an redundant term, but you are still calling me and Mitt Romney a racist.

.

Racists are people who believe in the insane concept 'race', as you know. That they also believe their imaginary group is superior to other imaginary groups is just a nutty extra.
 
Racists are people who believe in the insane concept 'race', as you know. That they also believe their imaginary group is superior to other imaginary groups is just a nutty extra.

Indeed.

Anyone that thinks that the amount of melanin in your skin makes you a different 'race' is either stupid and/or ignorant.
 
Here are the apparently controversial remarks:

I read a number of books on the topic. One, that is widely acclaimed, is by someone named Jared Diamond called ‘Guns, Germs and Steel,’ which basically says the physical characteristics of the land account for the differences in the success of the people that live there. There is iron ore on the land and so forth.



Good lord. You people really are desperate not to have to run on Obama's record, aren't you?


Scientist and author Jared Diamond said that Mitt Romney mischaracterized his book, "Guns, Germs and Steel," to theorize why Israelis and Palestinians have such vastly different levels of economic development at a fundraiser in Jerusalem Sunday.

He said that Romney gives a false description of the book by stating that it "basically says the physical characteristics of the land account for the differences in the success of the people that live there. There is iron ore on the land and so forth."

"That is so different from what my book actually says that I have to doubt whether Mr. Romney read it," he wrote in The New York Times on Tuesday. He also said that he focused mostly on "biological features" and there was no mention about iron ore in the book.

Diamond is a bestselling author and UCLA professor. "Guns, Germs and Steel," published in 1997, has sold more than 1.5 million copies and sparked a PBS series.

He said that the other author Romney cited, Harvard economist David Landes, would find Romney's thesis that culture accounts for economic differences "dangerously out of date."

Romney, speaking to a crowd -- which included GOP mega-donor Sheldon Adelson -- of about 40 Sunday at the famed King David Hotel, talked about why the Palestinians and Israelis had such drastically different levels of economic development.

"And as I come here and I look out over this city and consider the accomplishments of the people of this nation, I recognize the power of at least culture and a few other things," he said. Romney also mentioned the "hand of providence," and how the Jews have "long recognized the purpose in this place and in their lives that is greater than themselves and their own particular interests."


Romney did not mention how the occupation of the Palestinian territories has severely hampered economic development for decades.

Saeb Erekat, a senior aide to Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, called his statement "racist," and added, "it seems to me this man lacks information, knowledge, vision and understanding of this region and its people."

While Romney may have scored points with some right-wing Jewish voters, his remarks were another distraction from time he could be speaking about the economy, his strongest claim against President Barack Obama in the presidential election.

He repeated the argument in a subsequent National Review article, entitled "Culture Does Matter."

"The linkage between freedom and economic development has a universal applicability," he wrote, citing the differences between East and West Germany and North and South Korea. But South Korea was an authoritarian country until the late 1980s, and China and Singapore are strong counterexamples to the notion that freedom and economic development are universally linked.

This isn't the first time Romney has seemingly mischaracterized a book he's read. Journalist Noam Scheiber said he wrongly used his book, "The Escape Artists," to accuse Obama of pushing the Affordable Care Act to intentionally slow down the economic recovery.

Jared Diamond: Mitt Romney 'Misrepresented My Views'
 
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That they also believe their imaginary group is superior to other imaginary groups is just a nutty extra.

Well lucky we are talking about clearly distinct cultures
 
Scientist and author Jared Diamond said that Mitt Romney mischaracterized his book, "Guns, Germs and Steel," to theorize why Israelis and Palestinians have such vastly different levels of economic development at a fundraiser in Jerusalem Sunday.

He said that Romney gives a false description of the book by stating that it "basically says the physical characteristics of the land account for the differences in the success of the people that live there. There is iron ore on the land and so forth."

though it's been a very long time, if I had to give an assessment of GG&S, limited to a few lines in a speech, it would be pretty similar to Romney's (I originally picked it up when it was first published in hard back). Also, it's not like Diamond's work is universally accepted among academics. Much of it is disputed, for no other reason than it ignores cultural elements
 
Which IS what he IS talking about.

Culture=ethnicity=race


lol, back to this? We already covered, numerous times, that they are not the same. In fact I posted definitions that highlighted "ethnicity" could have absolutely nothing to do with similar with "physical" characteristics (so clearly it can't be race), and that it could have absolutely nothing to do with shared cultural behavior (so it can't be culture)

Sorry, repeating yourself, and ignoring contrary evidence, isn't an actual argument. So maybe go back to yelling at travis
 
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though it's been a very long time, if I had to give an assessment of GG&S, limited to a few lines in a speech, it would be pretty similar to Romney's (I originally picked it up when it was first published in hard back). Also, it's not like Diamond's work is universally accepted among academics. Much of it is disputed, for no other reason than it ignores cultural elements
Got it, not only does Willard know more about Diamond's book than Diamond.....you do too!

lol, back to this? We already covered, numerous times, that they are not the same. In fact I posted definitions that highlighted "ethnicity" could have absolutely nothing to do with similar with "physical" characteristics (so clearly it can't be race), and that it could have absolutely nothing to do with shared cultural behavior (so it can't be culture)
Ethnicity "could" have "absolutely" nothing to do with a shared culture of a group?

I have never seen such a complete removal of ones argument from reality, this is only possible with semantic dislocation.

FFS.
 
Got it, not only does Willard know more about Diamond's book than Diamond.....you do too!


or I could be pointing out how a layman might give a brief description of a work that differs from an academic, especially the writer of that work...

Ethnicity "could" have "absolutely" nothing to do with a shared culture of a group?

yes, in fact, I have already posted the definition for you probably a dozen times, since you seem to simply ignore contradictory evidence. in fact, here is a post you directly comment on the definition and even acknowledge that it "could have absolutely nothing to do with cultural practice

http://www.debatepolitics.com/2012-...-inferior-jews-w-412-a-21.html#post1060747930



I have never seen such a complete removal of ones argument from reality, this is only possible with semantic dislocation.

what ever works for you, but the facts are still clear: ethnicity can have absolutely no connection to shared cultural practice. Therefore, they are not equivalent terms, like you keep asserting
 
or I could be pointing out how a layman might give a brief description of a work that differs from an academic, especially the writer of that work...
Uh...Jared is an academic, he is pointing out that Willard does not understand what he wrote, and by extension, neither do you.



yes, in fact, I have already posted the definition for you probably a dozen times, since you seem to simply ignore contradictory evidence. in fact, here is a post you directly comment on the definition and even acknowledge that it "could have absolutely nothing to do with cultural practice
That is not absolute, it is a non-reference description of an exception. You are making an absolute out of a possible exception. The common, modern understanding IS that culture and ethnicity are one in the same, that the idea of race being a matter of genetics is made obsolete by our new understanding of our genome.





what ever works for you, but the facts are still clear: ethnicity can have absolutely no connection to shared cultural practice. Therefore, they are not equivalent terms, like you keep asserting
You are just flat out wrong, and your semantic games does not change how the world understands human nature.
 
I've been thinking about this. Couldn't you also spin what Romney said the other way? Connecting Jews to money....

I don't know, I'm just thinking. I don't think he meant anything about "Muslims being inferior people," but he really needs to watch what he says. Where's his campaign people, and why can't he hire Karl Rove? Rove is a freaking genius at crafting a message and sticking to it.
 
Uh...Jared is an academic

no ****, it was the point I just made

he is pointing out that Willard does not understand what he wrote, and by extension, neither do you.

hush, you're going to get yourself all emotional again. But if you go back an read my post, you'll see my comment was in reference to giving a short, one sentence, summery, not an exact explanation on the theories in the book



That is not absolute, it is a non-reference description of an exception.

what? you're claiming they are the same, the definition I presented proves they are not

You are making an absolute out of a possible exception.

No, I am pointing out your attempt to equivacate the terms doesn't work, because they are not the same thing


The common, modern understanding IS that culture and ethnicity are one in the same

I just presented with a definition that clearly disagrees with your argument





You are just flat out wrong, and your semantic games does not change how the world understands human nature.

again, what ever works, champ
 
Indeed.

Anyone that thinks that the amount of melanin in your skin makes you a different 'race' is either stupid and/or ignorant.

The only thing "insane" about racial categorization is the overwhelming ignorance of what race actually is. It isn't just skin color.
 
no ****, it was the point I just made hush, you're going to get yourself all emotional again. But if you go back an read my post, you'll see my comment was in reference to giving a short, one sentence, summery, not an exact explanation on the theories in the book
Now see, this is where you and Willard are getting into trouble, you do not understand that these "short summaries" are incorrect, they are NOT what the author was stating. They are misinterpretations of the work. This is a consistent error you make.

what? you're claiming they are the same, the definition I presented proves they are notNo, I am pointing out your attempt to equivacate the terms doesn't work, because they are not the same thingI just presented with a definition that clearly disagrees with your argument
I'll type this slowly, your non-referenced post of an exception to a general rule does not make the understanding of the subject incorrect. You are practicing your pointless, inconsequential nit-picking.


again, what ever works, champ
Unfortunately for you, yours does not "work". It might "work" for you, but you are out of the mainstream and without a paddle.
 
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Now see, this is where you and Willard are getting into trouble, you do not understand that these "short summaries" are incorrect, they are NOT what the author was stating. They are misinterpretations of the work. This is a consistent error you make.

lol, they are not meant to be exact. But if you would like, please offer up a better, short, one sentence, description

I'll type this slowly, your non-referenced post of an exception to a general rule does not make the understanding of the subject incorrect.

nope, a reference was clearly provided to you numerous times. You even went to the page and tried to cite material in support of your argument


Unfortunately for you, yours does not "work". It might "work" for you, but you are out of the mainstream and without a paddle.

sounds pretty cool. I always liked boats
 
In an utterly shocking and despicable display of over the top ignorance and bigotry, Mitt Romney announced to the world that the reason Palestine is poorer than Israel is that the Palestinians are culturally inferior. He did not consider that perhaps the occupation, the checkpoints, the shelling or the land seizures might be a factor. Nope, just that Muslims are inferior to Jews.

Honestly, I'm stunned. I have always thought that Romney was naive and immoral on the economic side, but I held out hope that he was above the whole bigotry thing, but these comments really leave no wiggle room. He has outed himself as a full on bigot.

Romney comments at fundraiser outrage Palestinians - Boston.com

Funny thing about this thread is, many people have pointed out the title reads "Muslims are culturally inferior to Jews," and that is incorrect because Romney was talking about Palestinians. Palestinians can be Muslim, Christian, whatever...

But then you read into the thread more, and several dozen people supporting Romney's comments basically attacking and blasting all Muslim cultural.

How many people have brought up Sharia Law, and questions like.... Where would you rather live: Saudi Arabia, Iraq, or Israel?


So basically, Romney said it about Palestine, but people heard it as being about all Muslims. Even Romney defenders see it as a matter of Muslim vs. Jewish, and they would agree that Muslims are inferior to Jews.
 
Funny thing about this thread is, many people have pointed out the title reads "Muslims are culturally inferior to Jews," and that is incorrect because Romney was talking about Palestinians. Palestinians can be Muslim, Christian, whatever...

But then you read into the thread more, and several dozen people supporting Romney's comments basically attacking and blasting all Muslim cultural.

How many people have brought up Sharia Law, and questions like.... Where would you rather live: Saudi Arabia, Iraq, or Israel?


So basically, Romney said it about Palestine, but people heard it as being about all Muslims. Even Romney defenders see it as a matter of Muslim vs. Jewish, and they would agree that Muslims are inferior to Jews.
Muslim culture. Not muslims.

Do you think American culure of today is superior, inferior or equal to American culture of, say, 1850? Those who claim that all cultures are equal need to explain why there should be any effort to change them. Why, for example, change from a racist, segregationist, fundamentalist culture to a free, rights respecting, secular democracy if one is no better or worse than another?
 
In an utterly shocking and despicable display of over the top ignorance and bigotry, Mitt Romney announced to the world that the reason Palestine is poorer than Israel is that the Palestinians are culturally inferior. He did not consider that perhaps the occupation, the checkpoints, the shelling or the land seizures might be a factor. Nope, just that Muslims are inferior to Jews.

Honestly, I'm stunned. I have always thought that Romney was naive and immoral on the economic side, but I held out hope that he was above the whole bigotry thing, but these comments really leave no wiggle room. He has outed himself as a full on bigot.

Romney comments at fundraiser outrage Palestinians - Boston.com

nothing is funnier than feigned partisan indignation
 
Muslim culture. Not muslims.

Do you think American culure of today is superior, inferior or equal to American culture of, say, 1850? Those who claim that all cultures are equal need to explain why there should be any effort to change them. Why, for example, change from a racist, segregationist, fundamentalist culture to a free, rights respecting, secular democracy if one is no better or worse than another?

Do you think American culture is superior to the Jewish culture??? (Jewish culture makes me laugh, btw. There are so many different branches of Judaism, traditions and Israelis from all over the globe.)

Anyways... would you rather in Israel, Iraq, or America?

Is Christian culture the most superior of all cultures?
 
Do you think American culture is superior to the Jewish culture??? (Jewish culture makes me laugh, btw. There are so many different branches of Judaism, traditions and Israelis from all over the globe.)

Anyways... would you rather in Israel, Iraq, or America?

Is Christian culture the most superior of all cultures?
I am not that familiar with Jewish culture, whatever its branch, but I suspect that there is an Israeli culture.
I wouldnt live in Iraq, I might live in Israel and I do live in America, of the three America by far.
And nations in which Christian traditions are part of the culture are the most superior. And I say that as an atheist. Christianity has gone through its Enlightenment. Islam is still stuck in the Dark Ages.
 
Do you think American culture is superior to the Jewish culture??? (Jewish culture makes me laugh, btw. There are so many different branches of Judaism, traditions and Israelis from all over the globe.)

Anyways... would you rather in Israel, Iraq, or America?

Is Christian culture the most superior of all cultures?
Christian culture? What the heck is that?

It is always hard to judge and rank cultures, especially when both of them are about the same, hence it is better to talk about individual elements of a culture. Israel may be better at some things while US is better at others.
 
Palestinian does not equal muslim, I think you will find many christians offended by this. Nevertheless, Israel's reasons for being " culturally superior" are nothing to be proud of. They're outright disgraceful
 
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