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"It Worked"

Sarah Palin and Michele Bachmann are smarter than liberals like you.

Would anyone ever ask you to be VP of the United States? Would people do what it takes to put your name on the presidential ballot in all 50 states during the primaries?
Not only would I take on either in an IQ contest, I'd give odds on the results :2razz:

If asked to be VP I would decline; the top spot is where the action is :cool:
 
The Tea Party is populated with morons (I give you Sarah Palin and Michelle Bachmann) so their questions are stupid and irrelevant, except to the extent that they politically motivate or sway those similarly moronic and stupid. That's reality.

Lets see if that's true. Sarah Palin is now extremely wealthy because of you liberals. And now she shoves herself in your face. Her endorsements and support for candidates win elections. This really pisses off you liberals. Read your own statement and tell me she does not really piss you off. :2razz:
 
As I have already shown with the Heritage chart, spending is not far out of line with the historical trend, while revenues are most definitely in the tank. The haters of government and all things Democrat, however, want to use that anomaly to try and destroy all the social programs that they so irrationally hate.

You call that spike in spending normal, don't think so. Further what that chart does not show is 2011 with another spending spree, and again in 2012. Then to make maters worse Obama will set up 2013 with yet another 1.5 trillion of borrowed money added to the national debt. This is insane.

Your only answer to this problem is the same as Obama's, more of the same borrow and spend mentality which has been a complete failure. Think about it, Obama has flooded this country with almost 6 trillion in borrowed money in just 4 yrs, and what have we gotten for it. Over 8% unemployment for 42 months, a GDP of 1.5% and 6 trillion added to the national debt. And you want to continue this process. You can't be serious.
 
Lets see if that's true. Sarah Palin is now extremely wealthy because of you liberals.

I'm pretty sure it ain't liberals paying to see that dimwit or read her books. :lol:
 
Spending raises itself, as anyone familiar with modern budget history knows; the problem is when revenues are unnecessarily and unwisely cut, which then upsets the balance of increases in revenue tracking increases in spending.

It's kind of like a man working a full time job who is barely making enough money to pay his bills suddenly deciding to switch to part time employment. Democrats would say the man is an irresponsible fool, while Tea Party Republicans will applaud him and tell everyone that in order to balance his new budget situation he only needs to quit feeding and clothing one of his children.

growth-federal-spending-revenue-600-Clinton.jpg
LMFAO... that's classic... Please say that more often...

Spending raises itself... just ignore the $100B/yr from Medicare Part D (at curret rates), just ignore the $700B TARP, just ignore the $800B ARRA, just ignore the tax breaks created by Obama, just ignore the extension of unemployment benefits, just ignore the extension of COBRA benefits, just ignore the $100B/yr for the ACA (at current rates), etc... These things just happen on their own...

Yes, inflation if unchecked can raise nominal dollar amounts, but spending doesn't just raise itself... There are increases in mandatory spending program costs... but you have the ability to adjust them with better management (something which is of dire importance to the next administration)...

We didnt go from spending $2.7T to spending $3.8T "by itself"...

The debt cieling didn't raise "itself" 5 times under Obama to accompany the massive increase in debt, either...


Plus that whiny spiel about revenues not being there causing the problem... It doesn't match the facts of the situation... Revenue is about where it's been... Spending is the thing that is elevated at the moment...

Spending has typically been about 20% of our GDP... Revenue has unfortunately trailed at around 18%... ATM we've been spending between 25-27%, and getting about 16% in revenue... So revenue dropped 2%, but spending went up 5-7%... They've both contributed to the problem, but spending is the bigger concern, as it's grown faster, and the mandatory spending programs, one of the major contributors are bound to be going up in the future... whereas, revenues would naturally increase if the economy improves...

More specifically, with the nominal values...

In 2007 spending was at $2.7T, revenue was at it's highest at $2.5T ...
In 2008 spending was $2.7T again, revenue was at $2.5T and two years in a row staying level
In 2009, Bush submitted another $2.7T budget, but Obama raised it to $3.1T, and revenue dropped to $2T
In 2010, Obama submitted a budget of $3.6T, and revenue recovered somewhat to $2.1T
In 2011, Obama submitted a budget of $3.8T, and revenue is projected to be $2.3T
In 2012, Obama submitted a budget of $3.7T, and revenue is projected to be $2.6T
In 2013, Obama submitted a budget of $3.8T, and revenue is projected to be $2.9T

So... revenues have recovered, and are expected to spike... spending hasn't recovered, its increase diminished, but its height has remained lofty...

We need to reign in spending far more more than we need to increase revenue... I agree we need to bring revenue up, but not at the expense of a drastic lifting of tax rates... and I don't think tax rate increases should be used to justify the expenses of unwise spending increases...


Piss poor analogy, too, btw...

It's more like the two separate people trying to buy a car...

Democrats say, we should buy this really expensive car, saying it will help us in the long run... because it will stop our CO2 emissions... It doesn't matter that we just had to take a pay cut... we can just take out a loan (without realizing they can't afford to pay it off)... then they'd take out a higher interest loan to pay for the other loan to avoid getting it reposessed... Then they'd say, well if the government would help us out we'd be able to afford this, and if it wasn't for those rich people we could afford this car... everyone should be able to buy the top model car... rich people should give us some of their money to be able to buy them...

Republicans will say... you know, we could get by with a decent used car that costs much less with the money we have now, and we wouldnt have to take out a loan to pay for it... until we get more money, then we can use it as a trade in for the downpayment on a better car... without having to pay the interest...

As an independent party... ATM, with that line of reasoning... The Republicans have the better sense of spending approach...
 
I'm pretty sure it ain't liberals paying to see that dimwit or read her books. :lol:

No but it was you liberals hatred that made her famous and extremely wealthy, and so famous that whoever she endorses wins, really pissing off you liberals. You liberals went after her and her family slavishly to bring her down, but she became the victor in wealth and fame and she makes a huge difference in getting people elected. So keep up the good work in bashing her, it just makes her more wealthy and famous.
 
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Lets see if that's true. Sarah Palin is now extremely wealthy because of you liberals. [...]
LOL.... hardly. She is wealthy because P.T. Barnum was right.
 
You call that spike in spending normal, don't think so. Further what that chart does not show is 2011 with another spending spree, and again in 2012. Then to make maters worse Obama will set up 2013 with yet another 1.5 trillion of borrowed money added to the national debt. This is insane. [...]
Examine that post closely, folks, then check the table below and you'll see just how far out in the Twilight Zone the right has travelled.

Total outlays in recent budget submissions

2013 United States federal budget - $3.8 trillion (submitted 2012 by President Obama)
2012 United States federal budget - $3.7 trillion (submitted 2011 by President Obama)
2011 United States federal budget - $3.8 trillion (submitted 2010 by President Obama)
2010 United States federal budget - $3.6 trillion (submitted 2009 by President Obama)

2009 United States federal budget - $3.1 trillion (submitted 2008 by President Bush)
2008 United States federal budget - $2.9 trillion (submitted 2007 by President Bush)
2007 United States federal budget - $2.8 trillion (submitted 2006 by President Bush)
2006 United States federal budget - $2.7 trillion (submitted 2005 by President Bush)
2005 United States federal budget - $2.4 trillion (submitted 2004 by President Bush)
2004 United States federal budget - $2.3 trillion (submitted 2003 by President Bush)
2003 United States federal budget - $2.2 trillion (submitted 2002 by President Bush)
2002 United States federal budget - $2.0 trillion (submitted 2001 by President Bush)

2001 United States federal budget - $1.9 trillion (submitted 2000 by President Clinton)
2000 United States federal budget - $1.8 trillion (submitted 1999 by President Clinton)
1999 United States federal budget - $1.7 trillion (submitted 1998 by President Clinton)
1998 United States federal budget - $1.7 trillion (submitted 1997 by President Clinton)
1997 United States federal budget - $1.6 trillion (submitted 1996 by President Clinton)
1996 United States federal budget - $1.6 trillion (submitted 1995 by President Clinton)

United States federal budget - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Clinton: 6 budgets from $1.6 trillion to $1.9 trillion, an increase of 19% over 6 budgets, or 3.1% per budget on average. (sorry, earlier figures aren't readily available at the link).

Bush: 8 budgets from $1.9 trillion to $3.1 trillion, an increase of 63% over 8 budgets, or 7.9% per budget on average.

Obama: 4 budgets from $3.1 trillion to $3.8 trillion, an increase of 23% over 4 budgets, or 5.6% per budget on average.

Yet, in RightWingWorld (AKA Twilight Zone) Obama, not Bush, is the big spender. And with all 4 Obama budgets being with $200 billion of each other, Obama is supposedly spending more and more money every year (when in fact spending is flat). Twilight Zone math ladies and gents, Twilight Zone math . . . . .
 
LMFAO... that's classic... Please say that more often... Spending raises itself... [...] We didnt go from spending $2.7T to spending $3.8T "by itself"...
Don't really understand the economy, eh? Country grows, revenue grows (usually), spending grows. Why does spending grow? Because the country grows... the same things get more expensive (beyond mere inflation... technological improvements, consumption of finite resources, increases in the standard of living, etc).

If 5% of the people are on welfare of some sort with a total population of 200 million, drawing $5,000 per year each, what do you think happens as the total population grows to 300 million and the percentage of people on welfare remains the same? Do you think it is unlikely that the percentage will stay the same, and if so why in the world would you think that? Now I understand that the hard right would just as soon kick this 5% to the curb to starve, but this is a math lesson, not an ideological sermon.

Let's say that the gov't needs 500 ambulances for various agencies. Call it a local gov't if you like. Can you compare a 1965 ambulance, which is basically a Cadillac station wagon with a bubble gum machine on top, a stretcher, and a bottle of oxygen with two strong guys in white uniforms to a 2012 ambulance, which is almost a 1960's-era field army hospital on wheels? One ton truck chassis wheels at that, with two highly trained paramedics. Do you think the only difference between the price of the two units is inflation?

Does this really need to be explained? To put it on a more pedestrial level, do you think a young family with no children has the same budget as they do 20 years later, with two kids in college and one in high school?

Republicans will say... you know, we could get by with a decent used car that costs much less with the money we have now, and we wouldnt have to take out a loan to pay for it... until we get more money, then we can use it as a trade in for the downpayment on a better car... without having to pay the interest... [...]
Republicans might say that, but they aren't stupid enough to believe it. However, they are counting on their base to believe it . . . .
 
[...] Plus that whiny spiel about revenues not being there causing the problem... It doesn't match the facts of the situation... Revenue is about where it's been... [...]
There is no countering that level of delusion.

Of course, technically you are correct -- when Bush left office revenue was less than when he took office (adjusted for inflation)[sup][1][/sup]. Problem is, that would be a budget disaster at any point in the last 50 years (and has never before happened in the last 50 years). Just ask any serious economist.

Clearly you want the budget cut by one third. But I'll bet you don't want to cut defense. And whether you know it or not, you can't cut Social Security or Medicare since those specific taxes pay for themselves at the moment[sup][2][/sup], and will do so for another 10 years or so. So the plan to cut the budget by one third is simply insane. Just ask any serious economist.


__________________________________________________________
1. Historical Federal Receipt and Outlay Summary
2. Trustees Report Summary
 
Examine that post closely, folks, then check the table below and you'll see just how far out in the Twilight Zone the right has travelled.


Clinton: 6 budgets from $1.6 trillion to $1.9 trillion, an increase of 19% over 6 budgets, or 3.1% per budget on average. (sorry, earlier figures aren't readily available at the link).

Bush: 8 budgets from $1.9 trillion to $3.1 trillion, an increase of 63% over 8 budgets, or 7.9% per budget on average.

Obama: 4 budgets from $3.1 trillion to $3.8 trillion, an increase of 23% over 4 budgets, or 5.6% per budget on average.

Yet, in RightWingWorld (AKA Twilight Zone) Obama, not Bush, is the big spender. And with all 4 Obama budgets being with $200 billion of each other, Obama is supposedly spending more and more money every year (when in fact spending is flat). Twilight Zone math ladies and gents, Twilight Zone math . . . . .

UGH, still pushing all the deficit from 2009 on Bush eh? Recycle some new talking points---Obama owns 1.2 trillion of that deficit at a minimum. Torturing the numbers to get your desired result is getting old.
 
UGH, still pushing all the deficit from 2009 on Bush eh? Recycle some new talking points---Obama owns 1.2 trillion of that deficit at a minimum. Torturing the numbers to get your desired result is getting old.
Yeah, love how they want to give Obama the credit for turning the economy around in 2009 and saving us from a second great depression, but then push all the spending that supposedly accomplished this great feat over to Bush.
 
UGH, still pushing all the deficit from 2009 on Bush eh? [...]
Wow. Some U.S. Senators would accuse you of lying with that outrageously false claim :shock:

Because I don't like my intelligence insulted; like you just did by trying to claim the 2009 budget was a Obama budget -- it was a Bush budget. At best, for your argument, they share the deficit for that budget. Trying to win an argument by lying by omission does not deserve any respect in return. Try an honest argument and see how that works out....
I see that you did not take my advice...

Recycle some new talking points---Obama owns 1.2 trillion of that deficit at a minimum. [...]
OMG -- still claiming that Obama owns $1.2 trillion of a $1.4 trillion deficit that was submitted by Bush with a built-in $0.4 trillion deficit. Can you explain how RightWingMath makes $1.2 + $0.4 = $1.4?
confuse.gif


And then explain how Obama was to blame for the $0.6 trillion shortfall in revenues?
confuse.gif


Your post makes no sense. On top of what amount? As I showed above, the FY2009 deficit was $1,400 billion; $400 billion of that was Bush, and $600 billion was shortfall in revenues, leaving only $400 billion to try and pin on Obama. Forget creditibilty, what about math? Or are you saying there was more spent in FY2009 than the Treasury has accounted for?

Submitted byGeorge W. Bush
Submitted to110th Congress
Total revenue$2.7 trillion (requested)
$2.105 trillion (enacted)[SUP][1][/SUP]
Total expenditures$3.107 trillion (requested)
$3.518 trillion (enacted)[SUP][1][/SUP]
Deficit$407 billion (requested)
$1.413 trillion (enacted)[SUP][1][/SUP]

2009 United States federal budget - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
After getting totally pwned with the facts in that other thread, why bring the same failed argument into another thread?
confuse.gif
 
There is no countering that level of delusion.

Of course, technically you are correct
That there sums it all up... conversation over...

See you next Tuesday...
Is anyone surprised that the right resorts to taking people out of context in a failed attempt to win a point? :2rofll:

Any reason you didn't address how you want to cut the budget?

There is no countering that level of delusion.

Of course, technically you are correct -- when Bush left office revenue was less than when he took office (adjusted for inflation)[1]. Problem is, that would be a budget disaster at any point in the last 50 years (and has never before happened in the last 50 years). Just ask any serious economist.

Clearly you want the budget cut by one third. But I'll bet you don't want to cut defense. And whether you know it or not, you can't cut Social Security or Medicare since those specific taxes pay for themselves at the moment[2], and will do so for another 10 years or so. So the plan to cut the budget by one third is simply insane. Just ask any serious economist.


__________________________________________________________
1. Historical Federal Receipt and Outlay Summary
2. Trustees Report Summary
 
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That is how most trailer parks work...

(sorry, had to...)
I laughed.

But in reality...

In a free market economy the government isn't non-existent... it is there and has a purpose, such as providing basic services... that the entire community benefits from... But they're not public, they're publicly provided private goods...
And yet they are still are paid for and used by the public. I'm not disputing that many private companies are subsidized and depend on government funded projects.. because how else would they exist?

The USPS is a private entity… and it competes with other delivery companies, such as UPS, FedEx, DHL, etc... Utility Companies, like the Electric, Gas, and Steam Companies (that provide the heat for most buildings cities) are also private entities, AMTRAK is a private entity... many of the things you think are public are actually privatized... even though they may be heavily subsidized (to the chagrin of many)...
I looked it up and the USPS is an "independent" entity of the US government so it's not really private in the sense that it has private ownership. AMTRAK is managed as a for profit corporation but the US government owns 100% of it's stock, heavily subsidizes it and chooses it's board of directors. However you look at it, they are both ultimately government entities and not private ones.

Most Water and Sewage plants in the country are considered government services... but there are fees and restrictions on use of them, so it's not quite a free public service... That's not en economic item that you can market... No one is aching away to purchase sewage... so the government steps in to assist in its removal... for health standards and safety…
I never claimed that public services were free. But at least they are affordable to the vast majority of the public.

Furthermore the highways, roads, and bridges were built with private funding, but by private companies, that exist on their own, without that are meant to exist on their own without that funding... It's not like we have an entirely public construction system that does it. DPW's do basic repairs. When they want roads, highways, bridges, etc. built that's where construction companies like Bechtel Parsons Brinkerhoff comes in... Public good, public need, private work, private management, private usage, etc.
Here again, I never said that private companies didn't build the roads, highways and bridges but they do get their funding from tax payers and the authority to build them from government and they are for public usage. Nor are the majority of the roads, highways, bridges, etc. privately owned after they're built and while the maintenance might be performed by private companies, but not always, that too is still funded by the public.

Those very roads and bridges then tend to be managed by corporations, which are funded and given exemptions by the government, but nominally are independent corporations... Like the Transportation Authorities, etc. They're all still classified as publicly provided private goods... not pure public services...
Not pure in the sense who builds and maintains them but they are owned and paid for by the government for public use. That makes them public roads.


Publicly owned land doesn't mean socialism, either... I suggest you look it up... and stop watching Jon Stewart as a source of news and information... and treat it like the entertainment it appropriately is meant to be...
I will when you stop reading Ayn Rand and treat it like the fiction it really is.

The point of this socialism scare that people are worried about isn't that Hitler will be reincarnated in the manifestation or any crap like that... It's that you can't just tax the rich forever to fund these profitless entities... because then the rich run out of money, they take it from the poor & middle class and stay rich at the expense of others... Also when all the money runs out, who will do what then? It won't be socialism; it'll be anarchy and feudalism all over again...
I think the wealthy have taken more than their share to get rich off the backs of people who did the hard labor. I'd like to see the rich try and get wealthy without them. Even in Galt's Gulch the roads and infrastructure were funded by the government and built with labor.

Some may want that... But the overwhelming majority of us don’t... The overwhelming majority of us recognize that we aren't all equal... some of us are better at some things than others, and some of those things are more valuable than others... and some of us put more effort forward than others, and some of us work much harder to better our station, whereas as others just waste away expecting things to happen for them... The people who recognize this want to live in a free market capitalist society where they have the right to self determination, and can chose what path they want to take to success, without the government preventing that, or trying to take that success away from them and hand it over to others who haven't earned it...
I see no reason why you can't have self determination and chose your own path to success in a mixed capitalist socialist economy. Everyone in business has to put up with regulations and it hasn't stopped those who really do put more effort forward. In fact, the majority of wealthy people didn't get their wealth in a pure free market capitalist society so if that is all that is stopping you from putting in some effort then you are no better than those who are "wasting away waiting for things to happen to them".

At the moment we see a president bent on wealth distribution in ways that don't fit that model... It's rewarding those who haven't earned or achieved anything, at the expense of those who have... Thus, less people are willing to take the individual initiative, to make this country better... by starting businesses, by making products, by paying their own bills without looking to government for handouts... It's the manifestation of the welfare state... When you reward lack of effort, you're going to have a malaise of mediocrity… That’s in many ways what the U.S. feels like today…
No, you see a man that you can blame for your own lack of success. He has done nothing to redistribute wealth that his predessors didn't do before him. When those at the bottom are given a chance for success, it raises us all up to a more civilized and just society.

We want our country back… and we want to restore the principals that made this country great for ages… That drove people to want to achieve, improve, innovate, invent, etc. so that they could get ahead in life… and had punishments and hard consequences for that that didn’t…
You didn't lose your country, your country lost you. You have romanticized a past that never was because the principles that made this country were based on slavery and exploitation of the weak. The things you despise such as socialism only occured after WW2 and that is what made this country great and gave you the opportunties that you now have and are squandering in self indulgence as you wait for a Randian fantasy. You are by no means the overwhelming majority.
 
Chapter 11 has been the means of dealing with "annihilation" for quite a long time. What principle are we supposed to derive from the GM bailout? Is there a new approach to "annihilation"? Who gets to access it?

Chapter 11, Title 11, United States Code - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You are mistaken. Chapter 11 deals with reorganization. GM and Chrysler would not have qualified for Chapter 11 without the bailouts. Chapter 7 liquidation deals with annihilation and that is where GM and Chrysler were headed.
 
[...] I never claimed that public services were free. [...]
The poster was creating a strawman to support his ludicrous argument that water and sewage are capitalist companies, when in fact most teenagers know they are utilities constructed with public money and operated or controlled by the government in a non-profit capacity to benefit everyone equally.

Hardly the textbook definition of capitalism . . . . . but as I noted many posts back, he is clearly in the process of writing his own dictionary :2razz:
 
No but it was you liberals hatred that made her famous and extremely wealthy, and so famous that whoever she endorses wins, really pissing off you liberals. You liberals went after her and her family slavishly to bring her down, but she became the victor in wealth and fame and she makes a huge difference in getting people elected. So keep up the good work in bashing her, it just makes her more wealthy and famous.

Actually, the joke is on the Cons. To a very great extent you are correct; her fame and fortune is very much tied to the fact that she pisses off liberals. So to award her for her amazing talent, the Cons have elevated her to a queen. She now sits on that throne, the very personification of what has become of the Conservative movement: arrogant, ignorant and aloof. She is "blessed" with an inane ability to speak in meaningless, trite soundbites that somehow excite the baseless; those that lack understanding, education, compassion or intellect to see through this shallow wonder.

But, please, keep her on that pinnacle. She is the daily reminder to liberals everywhere that there is a penalty to be paid if you let your guard down or fail to fight everyday to protect social justice, individual equality and environmental integrity. That price is idiots like Sarah Palin move one-step closer to the "button" and we all lose.

You are correct: Sarah Palin is a poster-child. Thank you.

Full disclosure: I don't think much of her..but then again (and fortunately), few do.
 
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