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Has the election became a contest of taking everything out of context?

ARealConservative said:
no it was still idiotic to say. the roads and bridges were built from money supplied by those that succeed.

this isn't a chicken and egg argument. the success comes first.

I would hammer him more on the other idiotic part of that quote. "everyone works hard" according to Obama, which is a crock of ****.
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I take no issue with the thought of the successful working hard. What I can't stand is making the assumption that because someone is down or in a bad place they obviously don't work hard.

What the far right always forgets is it's possible to work very hard and still be in a very bad place. Hard work does not directly = success. Success takes a combination of factors coming together with hard work.

Just ignoring large parts of the equation to support your argument is dishonest.

The roads and bridges were built as much from my pocket as from any business owners pocket, yet the right only argues for the business owners. What about the rest of us?

Did he say "everyone works hard"? or are you proving the OP's point?
 
Joe51 said:
I take no issue with the thought of the successful working hard. What I can't stand is making the assumption that because someone is down or in a bad place they obviously don't work hard.
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Yes, that straw man argument is very annoying. Fortunately, it isn’t part of this campaign, so no reason to even bring it up.

The roads and bridges were built as much from my pocket as from any business owners pocket, yet the right only argues for the business owners. What about the rest of us?
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The right typically argues in favor of the rights of individuals, regardless of which economic class they belong to. Their success is what funds government. If you are an individual contributing to government, business owners have you to thank, absolutely. Obama’s message is too much on government institutions being who we have to thank, not the individuals that worked hard before you that enabled things to work more seamlessly. The message would have been better received if he went in such a direction, but then he would not be catering to his base that wants government to do even more.

The left absolutely has to pretend his message was misinterpreted because people hear it and it disgusts them.
 
ARealConservative said:
You ever heard of reality?

Adjusted for inflation, NASA has taken 790 billion dollars from the success of the private sector. That is 790 billion dollars they only got because people were successful.
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Care to deal with any of the other points I made?

Even if NASA took 790 billion dollars from the economy (even though it's not as though that money disappears into thin air), they made pivotal advances in electronics and computing. Without government research the internet doesn't exist. Internet commerce only pumps 68 billion dollars into the economy a year, and that number is growing extremely quickly. That number doesn't take into account the other electronics that only exist today because of government research in the past. This means the next ten years of internet growth will "pay" for the 60 year history of NASA.

Though you still haven't refuted my main point. The state and business are responsible for each other.
 
E-M said:
Care to deal with any of the other points I made?

Even if NASA took 790 billion dollars from the economy (even though it's not as though that money disappears into thin air), they made pivotal advances in electronics and computing. Without government research the internet doesn't exist. Internet commerce only pumps 68 billion dollars into the economy a year, and that number is growing extremely quickly. That number doesn't take into account the other electronics that only exist today because of government research in the past. This means the next ten years of internet growth will "pay" for the 60 year history of NASA.

Though you still haven't refuted my main point. The state and business are responsible for each other.
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I dealt with all your "points", even the silly ones pretending NASA is different from every other government institution that takes from the producing class.
 
ARealConservative said:
I dealt with all your "points", even the silly ones pretending NASA is different from every other government institution that takes from the producing class.
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:lamo :lamo :lamo

Except you have completely ignored my concrete examples of how state ventures preceded business success on the North American continent.
 
E-M said:
:lamo :lamo :lamo

Except you have completely ignored my concrete examples of how state ventures preceded business success on the North American continent.
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your nonsense about the colonies and the British?

lol. I didn't ignore it. I laughed at at. go back further, and you will again find that government took from a productive class then too.

at no point did government magically produce in a way that didn't take from the private sector.
 
ARealConservative said:
your nonsense about the colonies and the British?

lol. I didn't ignore it. I laughed at at. go back further, and you will again find that government took from a productive class then too.

at no point did government magically produce in a way that didn't take from the private sector.
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When did business and productive class become the same thing? Feudal lords and peasants are not the same thing as business. The old monarchies had as much control of large swaths of the productive forces as mega corporations do today. The line was blurred between the state and the individual person in the institution of the monarchy. Thus we can see that when corporations started as joint ventures between the state and private individuals we can see that the state, in its feudal form, was itself an integral element of the productive forces of society.

Fast forward to the 1770's and we can see a major complaint of the colonists was that the king was no longer willing to protect the expansion of colonists into native territory. State protection of the colonists allowed them to develop business in the New World. Much is made of the colonists fight against mercantilism, and thus against government intervention in business. Yet the colonists freely admitted that they needed the state to continue to grow and revolted in part because the king would not use the state to support them.

Every state in the history of mankind has been intertwined with the workings of the economy. Your right-libertarian axioms become meaningless when applied to history. They don't exist to illuminate us to new angles in history but only to prove themselves. If we wanted to go all the way back to when humans existed without a state we would find a tribal economy that lacked a conception of private property and was based entirely on collectivized modes of production. If we take your logic to its extreme then private business only owes its existence to the initial communal modes of production which allowed humans to survive and develop the basic agricultural techniques that set the basis for civilization itself.
 
E-M said:
When did business and productive class become the same thing?
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government revenue is based on success in commerce. Those that succeed are productive.

your sophomorics are rather tiring. unless you can actually say something new and original, I believe I'm done with your tired arguments and rehashing of same.
 
James D Hill said:
I am sick and tired of both sides taking a few words out of a long speach to say the person was saying something they where not.The President was right when He said that businessmen did not build the roads and bridges but the conservatives tried to make it sound like He said they did not build their business.This is bunk.

The same is true when Romney said He liked to fire people.This is not what He meant and we all know it.I am a liberal and think the Mittster is open season but this was a cheap shot.

Has American politics sunk so low.I know what it is.75% of the people know how they are going to vote and are well informed.25% don't know their butt from a hole in the ground and they are the ones who will decide the election.Scary thought for sure but fact none the less.I know people who don't know the diferance between a liberal and a conservative and vote.
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Why is it when Hussein Obama does not have a teleprompter and he opens mouth and inserts foot (which is done allmost every day) the left says it was taken out of context.....Makes one wonder does everything he say taken out of context?
 
Navy Pride said:
Why is it when Hussein Obama does not have a teleprompter and he opens mouth and inserts foot (which is done allmost every day) the left says it was taken out of context.....Makes one wonder does everything he say taken out of context?
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You mean like Romney overseas?

Romney stated that the reason why Palestinians were so poor had to do with their culture.

Jon Stewart: Romney Calls Jews "Money Making", Um, People | Lez Get Real

Jon Stewart Mocks Romney Campaign For Gaffes In Poland And Israel | Mediaite
 
IndepCentristMA said:
No... really? A political comedian making jokes about a politician on his daily show, where he has to come up with a comedy bit for each day of the political events... That's so new...
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So, Romney didn't say those things? Gottcha. :coffeepap
 
poweRob said:
It's what a two party system creates. The GOP can take their right-wing base for granted....
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There are a lot of conservatives who can't stomach the idea of Romney on the ballot with an "R" next to his name. Many will vote third party or stay home in November.
 
ARealConservative said:
your sophomorics are rather tiring. unless you can actually say something new and original, I believe I'm done with your tired arguments and rehashing of same.
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government revenue is based on success in commerce. Those that succeed are productive.
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Hmmmmm, you seem to be the one repeating the same thing over and over and over again.

But go on living with your superiority complex you master of 101 libertarian talking points.
 
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