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Has the election became a contest of taking everything out of context?

Has the election became a contest of taking everything out of context?
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among other things, yes.

i find it disappointing. the current election should be a debate about where we have been and where we want to go. has trickle-down delivered, and is it our best path forward? what are we going to run our cars on when oil production drops? is it America's proper role to be the immune system of the world, and, if so, how do we pay for that? what does an increasingly post-labor economy look like, and how will consumers continue to spend in such an economy?

all are incredibly important debates that we should be having right now. instead, we get negative ads and out of context quotes.

so, does that disappoint me? yes. however, i will say that campaigns do this because it gets votes. if we don't like it, we'll have to stop voting for it.
 
AdamT said:
It would sound much more sincere if you EVER made the same comment to someone on "your" side.
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JamesHill is on my radar specifically because he sprinkles ad homs and demonization throughout his posts on a regular basis. He isnt saying anything new and as far as Im concerned he isnt adding anything with his commentary.
 
Prof. Peabody said:
You can "why" yourself to death and still come up with the same answer. Folks don't care why, they want it fixed and want results. Obama said he could deliver and failed. What more does the average voter care about? We elected you to fix it, you said you could, save your cheap excuses if you can't get 'er done we'll elect someone who can. That's really the bottom line for Nov 2012.
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So you're arguing for an a priori approach to political-economy. Instead of basing your expectations on a well reasoned examination of the state of economics in the country and the world you simply throw out a few numbers that the economy should meet. I suppose based on that methodology you could make success or failure based on whatever arbitrary number is most politically convenient for you.

Have you ever thought that maybe a huge problem in American politics is that we are so obsessed with effects that we fail to take the causes of things seriously? After all, it is much easier to spin the meaning of different economic indicators than to explain the complexities of modern economies. I think that across the political spectrum we should be condemning the shallowness of modern political debate. Well meaning conservatives, liberals, and socialists should all be equally against anti-intellectualism.

And, btw, I'm someone who under no likely circumstances will be voting for Obama.
 
James D Hill said:
I am sick and tired of both sides taking a few words out of a long speach to say the person was saying something they where not.The President was right when He said that businessmen did not build the roads and bridges but the conservatives tried to make it sound like He said they did not build their business.This is bunk.

The same is true when Romney said He liked to fire people.This is not what He meant and we all know it.I am a liberal and think the Mittster is open season but this was a cheap shot.

Has American politics sunk so low.I know what it is.75% of the people know how they are going to vote and are well informed.25% don't know their butt from a hole in the ground and they are the ones who will decide the election.Scary thought for sure but fact none the less.I know people who don't know the diferance between a liberal and a conservative and vote.
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Obama was not taken out of context
 
OpportunityCost said:
JamesHill is on my radar specifically because he sprinkles ad homs and demonization throughout his posts on a regular basis. He isnt saying anything new and as far as Im concerned he isnt adding anything with his commentary.
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Like I said....
 
Prof. Peabody said:
Nothing out of context about 8.2% unemployment, 14.9% under employment and 1.5% GDP after almost 4 years. Nothing out of context there.
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Or the fact that the GOP's supply side economics is what led us into this mess.Two wars and a tax break for the rich all unfunded plus a hands off business attitude that let the greedy run amok and send millions of jobs overseas.Other than that it is all Obama'a fault.
 
Travis007 said:
For Obama the issue is "things are now being seen in context" and people are seeing what a fraud this Marxist is..a radical to the bitter end..
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You act like capitalism is perfect.A socialist country would never have let millions of jobs be sent overseas and let the rich run amok the way the did in the Bush years.Who suffered?The American people and it was all done in the name of the all mighty dollar and by the way the stock market looks the rich are still doing well.It was capitalism not socialism that led us over this cliff.
 
Prof. Peabody said:
You can "why" yourself to death and still come up with the same answer. Folks don't care why, they want it fixed and want results. Obama said he could deliver and failed. What more does the average voter care about? We elected you to fix it, you said you could, save your cheap excuses if you can't get 'er done we'll elect someone who can. That's really the bottom line for Nov 2012.
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And going back to the failed suppy side economics that led us into this mess will cure us?How about the right coming up with some new ideas instead of the same old cut the tax rate and coddle the rich BS.That is the problem with being a conservative.They are so stuck in the past that they are walking backwards.I have news for you.This is not the same marketplace that Rat Master Ronnie saved in the 1980's.Now we have China,India,Mexico and the rest of the world to compete with and backstabbing American business outsourcing millions of American jobs.We need to looking forward and not acting like a bunch of reactionarys who by the way dominate the GOP.
 
James D Hill said:
And going back to the failed suppy side economics that led us into this mess will cure us?How about the right coming up with some new ideas instead of the same old cut the tax rate and coddle the rich BS.That is the problem with being a conservative.They are so stuck in the past that they are walking backwards.I have news for you.This is not the same marketplace that Rat Master Ronnie saved in the 1980's.Now we have China,India,Mexico and the rest of the world to compete with and backstabbing American business outsourcing millions of American jobs.We need to looking forward and not acting like a bunch of reactionarys who by the way dominate the GOP.
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blah blah supply side sucks, blah blah GOP drove us into the ditch? Blah blah right has nothing new, rich fair share crap blah blah. GOP in the past blah blah. Reagan was a terrible president blah blah. Globalist scapegoating blah blah American (union) jobs blah blah, the right is extreeeeeeemmmmmeeee blah blah.

Got all the talking points. Now try thinking for yourself.
 
All presidential campaigns are about Fluff, distortions, lies fabrications and pure BS...they are a waste of hundreds of millions of dollars that could actually be used to help someone who really needs it.

All federal elections should be funded by taxpayers in equal amounts to both candidates..without any additional cash. The big networks should be paid a nominal amount to cover their costs with some profit to provide coverage....until then elections will all be the same....which boils down to the BSing of the american mass's...he who BSs the best gets the prize
 
Prof. Peabody said:
Nothing out of context about 8.2% unemployment, 14.9% under employment and 1.5% GDP after almost 4 years. Nothing out of context there.
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I would say just these facts alone are extremely out of context. I would try to add some, but I've already seen what conservatives think of logic.

blah blah supply side sucks, blah blah GOP drove us into the ditch? Blah blah right has nothing new, rich fair share crap blah blah. GOP in the past blah blah. Reagan was a terrible president blah blah. Globalist scapegoating blah blah American (union) jobs blah blah, the right is extreeeeeeemmmmmeeee blah blah.
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James D Hill said:
I am sick and tired of both sides taking a few words out of a long speach to say the person was saying something they where not.The President was right when He said that businessmen did not build the roads and bridges but the conservatives tried to make it sound like He said they did not build their business.This is bunk.

The same is true when Romney said He liked to fire people.This is not what He meant and we all know it.I am a liberal and think the Mittster is open season but this was a cheap shot.

Has American politics sunk so low.I know what it is.75% of the people know how they are going to vote and are well informed.25% don't know their butt from a hole in the ground and they are the ones who will decide the election.Scary thought for sure but fact none the less.I know people who don't know the diferance between a liberal and a conservative and vote.
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I've come to expected it from the right, they seem to be the party of dirty politics.

I am very disappointed when President Obama engages in this type of red meat tossing.
 
James D Hill said:
I am sick and tired of both sides taking a few words out of a long speach to say the person was saying something they where not.The President was right when He said that businessmen did not build the roads and bridges but the conservatives tried to make it sound like He said they did not build their business.This is bunk.
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no it was still idiotic to say. the roads and bridges were built from money supplied by those that succeed.

this isn't a chicken and egg argument. the success comes first.

I would hammer him more on the other idiotic part of that quote. "everyone works hard" according to Obama, which is a crock of ****.
 
hazlnut said:
I've come to expected it from the right, they seem to be the party of dirty politics.

I am very disappointed when President Obama engages in this type of red meat tossing.
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Youre joking right.... you have heard of ACORN.. right?
 
ARealConservative said:
no it was still idiotic to say. the roads and bridges were built from money supplied by those that succeed.

this isn't a chicken and egg argument. the success comes first.

I would hammer him more on the other idiotic part of that quote. "everyone works hard" according to Obama, which is a crock of ****.
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Actually the vast majority of the land this country was built on was bought by the government. The government made the Louisiana Purchase, waged war against Mexico, and displaced or eradicated the native people in order to get the space and natural resources for American business to build on.

Libertarians have a bad habit of existing purely in the realm of theory. Government may have taxed business to build the roads and bridges, but without actual historical actions on the part of the U.S. government those businesses would have never existed.

So you libertarians have two choices. Either the government really is responsible for the grounds for which business is build or business is equally responsible the imperialism and genocide of the Native Americans.
 
E-M said:
Actually the vast majority of the land this country was built on was bought by the government. The government made the Louisiana Purchase, waged war against Mexico, and displaced or eradicated the native people in order to get the space and natural resources for American business to build on.
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Are we a communist government? Nope. So the government produced nothing. It has no money to buy anything. The money came from success in the private sector. Period. Private business success is what built the roads and funds the government. As usual, these big government loving idiots always get it backwards. Government needs to remember that they don’t exist without successful people, not the other way around.
 
Prof. Peabody said:
You can "why" yourself to death and still come up with the same answer. Folks don't care why, they want it fixed and want results. Obama said he could deliver and failed. What more does the average voter care about? We elected you to fix it, you said you could, save your cheap excuses if you can't get 'er done we'll elect someone who can. That's really the bottom line for Nov 2012.
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Can't wait to hear you cry when the Dems filibuster everything your boy tries.
 
lpast said:
All presidential campaigns are about Fluff, distortions, lies fabrications and pure BS...they are a waste of hundreds of millions of dollars that could actually be used to help someone who really needs it.

All federal elections should be funded by taxpayers in equal amounts to both candidates..without any additional cash. The big networks should be paid a nominal amount to cover their costs with some profit to provide coverage....until then elections will all be the same....which boils down to the BSing of the american mass's...he who BSs the best gets the prize
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I don't even think media needs compensation. A tv station license only costs like $100,000. Make em all cough up "x" minutes of commercial time. Distribute it by lot to the top 3 candidates equally (lets a third party participate). Allow unlimited money to be used to produce the commercials, but NO money spent on ads.

Pound the pavement and knock on doors if you want more "time" with the voters.

Public financing would have one huge benefit. Elected officials actually doing their jobs instead of campaigning and kissing lobbyist ass for contributions.
 
ARealConservative said:
Are we a communist government? Nope. So the government produced nothing. It has no money to buy anything. The money came from success in the private sector. Period. Private business success is what built the roads and funds the government. As usual, these big government loving idiots always get it backwards. Government needs to remember that they don’t exist without successful people, not the other way around.
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Again, living in the heavens of theory without ever feeling the need to deal with concrete historical facts. You realize all you did to refute me was to chant your theory again without actually addressing a single point I brought up?

The government has produced things. It produced some of the key components of the internet. Look at how much technology has come out of the NASA program.

A lot of money comes from business, but you can't say that is where the chain of events end. You are twisting history to forget that without government actions there wouldn't have been the land and resources American businesses are build on. Business can't make money off of land still communally controlled by the Native Americans. The government had to make that land available to business.

Of course our government couldn't exist without big business, but big business in its modern form couldn't exist without big government. This history of all human social relations are chicken and egg scenarios. Concrete history moves forward in dialectical motion that abstract cause and effect analysis can only distort.
 
James D Hill said:
I am sick and tired of both sides taking a few words out of a long speach to say the person was saying something they where not.The President was right when He said that businessmen did not build the roads and bridges but the conservatives tried to make it sound like He said they did not build their business.This is bunk.

The same is true when Romney said He liked to fire people.This is not what He meant and we all know it.I am a liberal and think the Mittster is open season but this was a cheap shot.

Has American politics sunk so low.I know what it is.75% of the people know how they are going to vote and are well informed.25% don't know their butt from a hole in the ground and they are the ones who will decide the election.Scary thought for sure but fact none the less.I know people who don't know the diferance between a liberal and a conservative and vote.
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It's what a two party system creates. The GOP can take their right-wing base for granted because they know ultimately they will vote for their candidate no matter what. And the Dems take their left-wing base for granted because they know ultimately they will vote for their candidate no matter what.

They don't even have to preach fear of the other candidate that much. Their sheep carry that message for them with no need to even pay them for it. We have evolved into a nation of cowards when in the voting booth.
 
E-M said:
Again, living in the heavens of theory without ever feeling the need to deal with concrete historical facts. You realize all you did to refute me was to chant your theory again without actually addressing a single point I brought up?

The government has produced things. It produced some of the key components of the internet. Look at how much technology has come out of the NASA program.
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And all those things were produced off of the backs of…wait for it… successful business.

Some people would succeed without government, but government will never succeed without people succeeding first. This is not a chicken and an egg argument, we know which comes first.

This isn’t theory, this is reality.

Obama and his big government loving message wants us to think of it in the opposite way of how the world actually works. It wasn’t a gaffe, it was just a glimpse into the idiotic foundation that makes up the progressive movement.
 
ARealConservative said:
And all those things were produced off of the backs of…wait for it… successful business.

Some people would succeed without government, but government will never succeed without people succeeding first. This is not a chicken and an egg argument, we know which comes first.

This isn’t theory, this is reality.

Obama and his big government loving message wants us to think of it in the opposite way of how the world actually works. It wasn’t a gaffe, it was just a glimpse into the idiotic foundation that makes up the progressive movement.
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NASA was built off the back of business? Have you not heard of NASA?

If you look at it the first modern corporations were initiatives between the state and private citizens. Without the British state you don't get the colonies. Thinking about it, without the state you don't get Columbus discovering the America's.

In history there wasn't a clear cut line between the functions of the state and successful business. If you really want to believe that success in business is always responsible for success in government then you have to accept that business was responsible for the genocide and imperialism of the U.S. state.
 
E-M said:
NASA was built off the back of business? Have you not heard of NASA?
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You ever heard of reality?

Adjusted for inflation, NASA has taken 790 billion dollars from the success of the private sector. That is 790 billion dollars they only got because people were successful.
 
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