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2/3rds of Registered Voters Think Obama's Policies Contributed to Economic Downturn

Re: 2/3rds of Registered Voters Think Obama's Policies Contributed to Economic Downt

What did the Republicans do to "sandbag" it.

Elaborate so I can laugh at you. Obama hasn't even met with his jobs council in 6 months.
We have already shown that the GOP foot dragging on raising the debt level caused a significant downturn in economic activity.
 
Re: 2/3rds of Registered Voters Think Obama's Policies Contributed to Economic Downt

*applause*
well done, Fox News, well done

While people still blame Republican policies for causing the downturn, Fox has done a great job at smudging the fact the Republicans have sandbagged every attempt to fix it and simultaneously blaming the Dems for not fixing things fast enough.

If Fox news was responsible for everyone who thought outside of the bs narrative about do-nothing congress, it would be pretty impressive and well done. Somehow, I think common sense played a part, too.

The republicans were given the house in 2010 largely to put a stop to the president's agenda. Not a surprise that they aren't eager to support him doing more of the same. I also wonder why we have a do-nothing senate that refuses to even introduce the dozens of bills the house has passed that they felt would help the economy. They may not be the most intelligent bills, but they are trying to do something.

We have a do nothing government right now because of the partisan BS. Wish there was another party to break up some of the gridlock.
 
Re: 2/3rds of Registered Voters Think Obama's Policies Contributed to Economic Downt

If Fox news was responsible for everyone who thought outside of the bs narrative about do-nothing congress, it would be pretty impressive and well done. Somehow, I think common sense played a part, too.

The republicans were given the house in 2010 largely to put a stop to the president's agenda. Not a surprise that they aren't eager to support him doing more of the same. I also wonder why we have a do-nothing senate that refuses to even introduce the dozens of bills the house has passed that they felt would help the economy. They may not be the most intelligent bills, but they are trying to do something.

We have a do nothing government right now because of the partisan BS. Wish there was another party to break up some of the gridlock.
The problem is well documented, the GOP members of congress have shifted so far to the right that compromise has become impossible. It has gotten so bad that there are few if any moderate GOP members.

http://www.amazon.com/Even-Worse-Than-Looks-ebook/dp/B007UPDFKA

Want to end partisan politics? Here’s what won’t work — and what will. - The Washington Post
 
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Re: 2/3rds of Registered Voters Think Obama's Policies Contributed to Economic Downt

The problem is well documented, the GOP members of congress have shifted so far to the right that compromise has become impossible. It has gotten so bad that there are few if any moderate GOP members.

The democrats are doing the same thing. It's more about political gain than actually fixing anything. Please note that I don't actually defend the GOP here.
 
Re: 2/3rds of Registered Voters Think Obama's Policies Contributed to Economic Downt

The democrats are doing the same thing. It's more about political gain than actually fixing anything. Please note that I don't actually defend the GOP here.
Um, you are. The dems have not moved anywhere as far to the left as the GOP has moved to the extreme right. You need to read the links and get familiar with Mann and Orstein's work.
 
Re: 2/3rds of Registered Voters Think Obama's Policies Contributed to Economic Downt

Um, you are. The dems have not moved anywhere as far to the left as the GOP has moved to the extreme right. You need to read the links and get familiar with Mann and Orstein's work.

To avoid a complete derailment, I'm not really going to get too far into this. I will say that trying to sell me a book from amazon and showing a list of ideas to get away from partisan politics doesn't sell me on the innocence of the DNC.
 
Re: 2/3rds of Registered Voters Think Obama's Policies Contributed to Economic Downt

To avoid a complete derailment, I'm not really going to get too far into this. I will say that trying to sell me a book from amazon and showing a list of ideas to get away from partisan politics doesn't sell me on the innocence of the DNC.
I wasn't making any argument like your "innocence" red herring, I made an argument of how far the GOP has moved to the extreme right with supporting documentation. If you choose to ignore it, it is not my problem, it is just that you can't "wonder" why the Congress is doing nothing, you don't have to wonder, you just have to get up to speed on what has happened to the GOP over the last decade.
 
Re: 2/3rds of Registered Voters Think Obama's Policies Contributed to Economic Downt

it only measures how the 1200 or so who were polled might vote. a poll of 1200 says absolutely nothing about 330,000,000

No. If the sample is a random sample, a poll of only 1200 people can actually be a very good predictor. I know it doesn't seem possible, but a poll of just 1200 people has a sampling error of only several percentage points(+-) . Any poll,of course, can be skewed by the way the question is worded(leading questions), but the question in this particular study seems fairly straight forward so I am inclined to trust the results. Also, I think there are around half the number of people who are actually registered to vote than the 330,000,000 you mentioned.
This is a very difficult concept for many people to grasp, but the math behind it is solid.
 
Re: 2/3rds of Registered Voters Think Obama's Policies Contributed to Economic Downt

No. If the sample is a random sample, a poll of only 1200 people can actually be a very good predictor. I know it doesn't seem possible, but a poll of just 1200 people has a sampling error of only several percentage points(+-) . Any poll,of course, can be skewed by the way the question is worded(leading questions), but the question in this particular study seems fairly straight forward so I am inclined to trust the results. Also, I think there are around half the number of people who are actually registered to vote than the 330,000,000 you mentioned.
This is a very difficult concept for many people to grasp, but the math behind it is solid.

I understand all that, but a random sample of 1200 is still meaningless on a population of 330,000,000. Its much too small to be truly "random"
 
Re: 2/3rds of Registered Voters Think Obama's Policies Contributed to Economic Downt

From the rabidly-right-wing New York Times and CBS:



It is, of course, worth noting that a larger percentage of voters continue to blame Bush's policies as having contributed to the Economic Downturn. But, given that I am one of those voters, I'm not sure how much opportunity that gives to the Obama campaign to make headway on these numbers by trying to draw connections between Romney and Bush.



And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why we are going to continue to hear all about how Romney is a Mean Old Rich Guy Who Wants To Hurt The Middle Class To Help The Rich. 'Cause running on a record like that is suicide.

I want to see a poll asking whether Romney's plan of more tax cuts for the rich will help the economy. Or whether firing 1000's of Govt. workers will help unemployment.
 
Re: 2/3rds of Registered Voters Think Obama's Policies Contributed to Economic Downt

I understand all that, but a random sample of 1200 is still meaningless on a population of 330,000,000. Its much too small to be truly "random"
We get it, Mr Bobcat with tiger avatar, you don't like political polling, you have made that abundantly clear.
 
Re: 2/3rds of Registered Voters Think Obama's Policies Contributed to Economic Downt

I want to see a poll asking whether Romney's plan of more tax cuts for the rich will help the economy. Or whether firing 1000's of Govt. workers will help unemployment.

Maintaining the current tax rates is NOT a tax cut. Stop the lies.

But the govt could take 100% of the income of everyone making over 1 million and it would be a drop in the bucket compared to the deficit and debt. Thats not the answer. the govt must cut spending and if some civil servants lose their jobs in the process thats just the price we have to pay.
 
Re: 2/3rds of Registered Voters Think Obama's Policies Contributed to Economic Downt

We get it, Mr Bobcat with tiger avatar, you don't like political polling, you have made that abundantly clear.

Yeah, I guess I have. If you want to buy into them, great. I choose not to.
 
Re: 2/3rds of Registered Voters Think Obama's Policies Contributed to Economic Downt

What matters is whether people think Romney would do better or worse -- not just how they think Obama has done.

Of course we can all cherry pick polls to show what we want.... Obama Leads Romney On Economy Improvement: Poll - Business Insider

I like the heading of the site you posted. "Obama Leads Romney On Economy Improvement" have you seen the last couple of months where the job numbers is in decline and the GDP is at a anemic 1.9%, and first time unemployment number are growing. At last count it's back up to 386,000, and you call that an improving economy. :doh
 
Re: 2/3rds of Registered Voters Think Obama's Policies Contributed to Economic Downt

Yup, that's why we have an "economics" forum, where this question is debated rather endlessly :).

OK. So, do you think Obama is responsible? If so, 100% responsible? 50%? 25%? 10%? And how do you measure this?
 
Re: 2/3rds of Registered Voters Think Obama's Policies Contributed to Economic Downt

Yeah, I guess I have. If you want to buy into them, great. I choose not to.
Yes, yes, yes....we get it, you don't like political/statistical analysis via polling..got it...mark him down as "not accepting"......got it Mr tige....er...."bobcat".


beautiful-bobcat.jpg



Tiger-facts-Tiger-and-its-eyes.jpg
 
Re: 2/3rds of Registered Voters Think Obama's Policies Contributed to Economic Downt

I wasn't making any argument like your "innocence" red herring, I made an argument of how far the GOP has moved to the extreme right with supporting documentation. If you choose to ignore it, it is not my problem, it is just that you can't "wonder" why the Congress is doing nothing, you don't have to wonder, you just have to get up to speed on what has happened to the GOP over the last decade.

I think it's cute that you call that supporting documentation.

Since I didn't argue against the GOP move to the right, I could only assume you were trying to say the same thing wasn't happening with the DNC. I gave you more credit than to assume you were delusional enough to believe this was really a one sided problem. Both sides are extreme and it's not only one that has moved there more over the last 30 years or so. The extremism is what keeps anything from moving forward in any meaningful way.
 
Re: 2/3rds of Registered Voters Think Obama's Policies Contributed to Economic Downt

Yes, yes, yes....we get it, you don't like political/statistical analysis via polling..got it...mark him down as "not accepting"......got it Mr tige....er...."bobcat".


beautiful-bobcat.jpg



Tiger-facts-Tiger-and-its-eyes.jpg


thanks, I will see if I can use your bobcat pic as my avatar.
 
Re: 2/3rds of Registered Voters Think Obama's Policies Contributed to Economic Downt

got it-----------
 
Re: 2/3rds of Registered Voters Think Obama's Policies Contributed to Economic Downt

I think it's cute that you call that supporting documentation.

Since I didn't argue against the GOP move to the right, I could only assume you were trying to say the same thing wasn't happening with the DNC. I gave you more credit than to assume you were delusional enough to believe this was really a one sided problem. Both sides are extreme and it's not only one that has moved there more over the last 30 years or so. The extremism is what keeps anything from moving forward in any meaningful way.
But you see, you haven't presented anything to back your claim.....and you haven't bothered to read Mann/Ornstein to know whether their conclusions are incorrect.

PS....your repeating your red herring about what I think still does not fly, but I know you will keep trying to apply it to me.
 
Re: 2/3rds of Registered Voters Think Obama's Policies Contributed to Economic Downt

But you see, you haven't presented anything to back your claim.....and you haven't bothered to read Mann/Ornstein to know whether their conclusions are incorrect.

PS....your repeating your red herring about what I think still does not fly, but I know you will keep trying to apply it to me.

Wait ... wait .. you seriously believe I would buy a book on amazon to have a debate on a political chat board? No wonder you have trouble with this. I think I'll save my 13 bucks.

I'm also either missing something or you are applying the wrong term here. What is the red herring here? If you mean that I'm presenting your own point incorrectly, that's more of a straw man. If I'm doing that, let me know. If I've got a red herring, simply point to what I'm trying to distract from and we'll address that instead.

The problem is well documented, the GOP members of congress have shifted so far to the right that compromise has become impossible. It has gotten so bad that there are few if any moderate GOP members.

Your contention was that the problem is simply that the GOP have become so right wing that nothing can get done. To me this implied that you think if the right wing were less right wing, we'd be okay. Maybe that is taking your logic too far? Help me out here.

Regarding your "supporting documentation", please present a free version or alternate source. To make it simpler, you can just point out which of the republican "jobs" bills were introduced in the senate. The public overwhelmingly voted in those representatives. Maybe they wanted those bills to go up for a vote.

If you need supporting evidence that the left is on the attack, too or that they are pretty partisan, I can come up with some pretty easily. It just seems pretty self-evident and a waste of my time. My contention is not that the GOP is doing a great job, it's that they both suck. Bear that in mind.
 
Re: 2/3rds of Registered Voters Think Obama's Policies Contributed to Economic Downt

From the rabidly-right-wing New York Times and CBS:

It is, of course, worth noting that a larger percentage of voters continue to blame Bush's policies as having contributed to the Economic Downturn. But, given that I am one of those voters, I'm not sure how much opportunity that gives to the Obama campaign to make headway on these numbers by trying to draw connections between Romney and Bush.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why we are going to continue to hear all about how Romney is a Mean Old Rich Guy Who Wants To Hurt The Middle Class To Help The Rich. 'Cause running on a record like that is suicide.

This analysis was very good.

This is the wonderful economic recovery Barack Obama has planned in four years for America.


Remember, in the Soviet Union, everyone had a job…

“They pretend to pay us…and we pretend to work” was a common political joke at the time.
The planners were in charge of everything…until they planned it all into the ground. More people contributing value to a marketplace — ceteris paribus — should mean more ideas, more competition, more division of labor, more goods, more services and generally, more wealth. Less “need” for government, in other words, not more. Of course, that’s rarely ever the case…and “more government” is almost always the reason why.

Perhaps, then, spending as a percentage of GDP is a fairer method? Some models show that, under these parameters, President Clinton had the lowest relative spending of the above mentioned presidents. During Clinton’s last year in office, US GDP was about $10 trillion. Expenditures that year, in 2000, were estimated to be a tad over $3.2 trillion: a 32.6% spending-to-GDP ratio. Using the same method, in 2010 US GDP was measured at roughly $14.5 trillion.

Expenditures, under Obama, came in at just over 40% of GDP…the highest level for all the presidents mentioned in the graph, and only the second time it surpassed 40% since WWII (the other year being 2009). In any case, these levels are a far cry from the single-digit percentages that were commonplace up until 1918 (when the spending-to-GDP ratio jumped from 9.5% to over 22%.)

But again, it’s all junk science. GDP is so obviously a fraudulent metric (as we’ve explained in these pages before), it’s embarrassing to think anyone (outside the government) uses it at all. Take, for instance, the expenditure method for calculation, which looks like this:

GDP = private consumption + gross investment + government spending + (exports − imports).

As you can see, government spending is actually counted as a net positive when calculating the size of the economy. If the government were to simply pay all the economists in the nation to shave one another’s beards, the expenditure method would register an enormous increase in GDP…even though the overall economy might be no better off at all. Think misallocation of resources (perhaps debatable in this example), widespread malinvestment, vast diminishing of the dollar’s purchasing power, academics pinheads wielding straight blade razors…etc., etc., etc…

That the government can create value is, to continue our metaphor, the baldest-faced Keynesian lie of them all. At best it can redistribute it…all the while watching it atrophy, whittling away in their bureaucratic distribution pipelines and misguided, make-work programs.

To be clear, the above list of presidents houses no heroes for this editor. Just crooks, shysters and politicking pony paraders varying only in degrees of waste, market distortion and outright theft. A graphic portrayal of marauding pirates “dividing the loot.”

After a quick meme search of our own, we found the following cartoon which, we feel, more accurately depicts the situation in Washington, DC. Swap the candidates around if it makes you feel better…the result is still the same.


source: A Look at Government Spending Beyond the Numbers A Look at Government Spending Beyond the Numbers
 
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Democrats are such douchebags. When Bush was president EVERYTHING was his fault. When dems controlled the house and senate everything was republicans fault. When democrats owned the house, senate, and white house everything was the republicans fault. Control te white house and senate and everything is still republicans fault. Basically...liberals on this site define democrats as completely inconsequential and the Webster definition of "failure". Then again...those making those claims COULD just be pathetic mindless partisan hacks...
 
Re: 2/3rds of Registered Voters Think Obama's Policies Contributed to Economic Downt

Democrats are such douchebags. When Bush was president EVERYTHING was his fault. When dems controlled the house and senate everything was republicans fault. When democrats owned the house, senate, and white house everything was the republicans fault. Control te white house and senate and everything is still republicans fault.

Basically...liberals on this site define democrats as completely inconsequential and the Webster definition of "failure". Then again...those making those claims COULD just be pathetic mindless partisan hacks.

You are indeed correct, VanceMack.

Truer words were never spoken!

Barack Obama has promised us a lot of things, but true to his character, he has delivered on none of them.

3 Years Of Obama's Job Promises, Promises

 
Re: 2/3rds of Registered Voters Think Obama's Policies Contributed to Economic Downt

The problem is well documented, the GOP members of congress have shifted so far to the right that compromise has become impossible. It has gotten so bad that there are few if any moderate GOP members.

http://www.amazon.com/Even-Worse-Than-Looks-ebook/dp/B007UPDFKA

Want to end partisan politics? Here’s what won’t work — and what will. - The Washington Post

Moderates are becoming extinct on both sides.

Blue Dog Democrats trying to stave off extinction following Pennsylvania losses - 2chambers - The Washington Post
Just two years removed from being the most powerful voting bloc on Capitol Hill, Blue Dog Democrats are now trying to stave off political extinction.

Once boasting 54 members in 2010, the Blue Dogs shrank to 26 after those midterm elections scared many into retirement and left many others exposed to political winds that knocked them out that fall. Another pair of retirements last year and early this year, from Jane Harman (Calif.) and Gabrielle Giffords (Ariz.), dropped that total again. Moreover, seven more Blue Dogs have announced their intention to retire at the end of 2012, decided to seek higher office or have lost in their primary race. By the time the 113th Congress is sworn in next January, the Blue Dogs will likely have less than a third of their membership from two years ago.

I would say the difference is that the moderates in the GOP are being primaried out, the dem mods are being defeated by the other party.

But both sides have smaller numbers of moderates than in 2008. Your premise is a case of blinders, both sides are more entrenched in their ideaology.
 
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