Romney Completely Picked Apart on Bain Issue

hazlnut said:

So conservative aren't capable of asking real reporter questions.

Good to know.





Um... Moderates and independents won't vote for him. You know, the ones who decide national elections.

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Debra said:

Fine by me lets see how many independents and undecided voters like this arrogance Romney has....yea then we will see who is in a bubble.

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So who anointed you two liberals as spokesmen for the moderate voter?

poweRob said:

Obama derangement won't win Romney the election. So Romney needs to show he's actually got something to offer. Hiding tax returns and not addressing the Bain issue won't do that.

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I agree that Obama derangement won't win romney the election, and I also agree that Romney needs to show that he has something to offer. But the tax returns and the Bain stuff are liberal demands and liberal distractions that Romney will never be able to answer to their satisfaction. Look, liberals aren't going to vote for the man so he should spend zero time trying to meet their endless and politically driven demands. He should lay out what he plans to do if elected and let that stand in contrast to obamas silence on his second term agenda and ignore any liberal hyperventilating about his wealth and success.

Fletch said:

I agree that Obama derangement won't win romney the election, and I also agree that Romney needs to show that he has something to offer. But the tax returns and the Bain stuff are liberal demands and liberal distractions that Romney will never be able to answer to their satisfaction. Look, liberals aren't going to vote for the man so he should spend zero time trying to meet their endless and politically driven demands. He should lay out what he plans to do if elected and let that stand in contrast to obamas silence on his second term agenda and ignore any liberal hyperventilating about his wealth and success.

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What "endless demands"? The request is simply to provide what every other candidate for the last 30+ years has provided. It ain't like anyone's asking him to provide his college transcripts or birth certificate.

Fletch said:

I agree that Obama derangement won't win romney the election, and I also agree that Romney needs to show that he has something to offer. But the tax returns and the Bain stuff are liberal demands and liberal distractions that Romney will never be able to answer to their satisfaction.

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Wrong. On the tax front, fellow GOPers have called for the release.

As for the Bain, the longer Romney does not clarify what the hell went on and has his surrogates go around claiming "retroactive retirement" bull**** and come with contradiction after contradiction, then this story will go on and on. Like it or not, people will see Romney's name on documents that state he was CEO and sole owner and put that up against his claims he "left" the company in 1999. Like it or not most people will find that highly odd.

The sad part is all Romney has to do is come out and say he made a mistake and use the wrong words to describe the situation and explain that he was planning on going back to Bain after the Olympics, so he did not leave Bain but went on a leave of absence. And then things changed and he wanted to run of office and then he started in 2001 or there abouts to sell the company. All the evidence out there points to this as the most logical way things happened..but his campaign and himself have been playing catch up ever since the story broke. Had he and his campaign from the start used the words "leave of absence" instead of "leave", then none of this would have happened. He had a golden chance to put it all behind him when he went on every TV news show out there, but what did he do... he made it worse and looked like he had something to hide. This Bain mess is political dynamite and it will turn independents and those who have not made up their minds against him. Only thing that is in favour on Bain, is that it came out relative early in the campaign, and voters are dumb and forgetful... but the longer the mess goes on, the less time to forget..

Look, liberals aren't going to vote for the man so he should spend zero time trying to meet their endless and politically driven demands. He should lay out what he plans to do if elected and let that stand in contrast to Obamas silence on his second term agenda and ignore any liberal hyperventilating about his wealth and success.

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Err he should have done that months ago, and has yet to take a stance on anything. He has still not taken a stance on Obama's amnesty for illegal students... its been months! Sorry but the Romney campaign has been one big cluster**** since day one and it is getting worse and worse.

Right now, it is Obama that is promoting his vision and views, and pointing out Romneys questionable history, and it is Romney that has presented next to nothing new, and is playing defensive politics.

But yes the left will vote for Obama, and the right will vote for Romney, but that is not what this story is focused on. It is for those who have their doubts about Romney... and there are many in the independent and even in the Republican party.

Grendel said:

He's been saying his business success at Bain Capital is why people should vote for him, but when asked about Bain's activity, he says he has no idea what they were doing while he was CEO, President, and drawing a salary; he didn't go to any meetings, he didn't sit in any votes, he didn't make any decisions, he has no responsibility and no idea what was going on. He only showed up to get his paycheck.

That's the business experience he wants us to consider?

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:shrug: Obama has been saying he's been creating jobs, but he's been creating a lot of jobs with our money in other countries.

That's the record he wants us to consider?

But yes, generally, the fact that the man was not only capable of a wildly successful (witness his wealth) business career of turning around failing businesses followed by great success turning around a failing Olympics is indeed a measure of his likelihood of success in turning around a failing American fiscal state.

AdamT said:

What "endless demands"? The request is simply to provide what every other candidate for the last 30+ years has provided.

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aw. lookit that. you bought the clinton talking point.

Sadly, it turns out ole Willy was wrong

Romney has released just as many prior years (two) as John McCain did. Recent Presidents who have released none of their tax returns prior to the year in which they were elected include George W Bush, Bill Clinton, George H.W. Bush, Ronald Reagan, and Jimmy Carter.


THERE IS NO HISTORICAL STANDARD THAT ROMNEY IS FAILING TO MEET.

The Obama Campaign just wants to insist that Romney give them fodder, and see's this line of attack as a win-win for them. :shrug:

Grendel said:

He's been saying his business success at Bain Capital is why people should vote for him, but when asked about Bain's activity, he says he has no idea what they were doing while he was CEO, President, and drawing a salary; he didn't go to any meetings, he didn't sit in any votes, he didn't make any decisions, he has no responsibility and no idea what was going on. He only showed up to get his paycheck.

That's the business experience he wants us to consider?

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It has been a huge success, Romney is wealthy. Clinton said his work at Bain was stellar. Nuff said.

The rest of your BS he was running the Olympics, another huge success. Now compare that to Obamafailure.

AdamT said:

What "endless demands"? The request is simply to provide what every other candidate for the last 30+ years has provided. It ain't like anyone's asking him to provide his college transcripts or birth certificate.

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Because you ask you shall receive, why? There is nothing in the constitution for Romney to provide you with anything. Other than he be born here, and a birth certificate you can ask for, but your not. Holder on the other hand is in contempt of congress for not handing over documents.

To your statement that every other candidate for the last 30+ yrs has provided, is flat out false. Please provide link.

specklebang said:

So what if he outsourced. That would be his job and under the Bush administration, outsourcing was encouraged for everything.

Just imagine that you have a product and capital to build something that is NOT a car, bulldozer, war machine or aircraft. Would you build it in America? Please don't make me laugh. Pay some American $17.25 and hour and another $8 worth of benefits and another $8 for regulatory compliance or get someone to do it for $3 an hour. Lets try a little reality here.

We only are able to produce high ticket items, we are simply not a country to build most stuff in. You won't be able to compete. If you are the CEO, you damn well better be outsourcing.

As a President, the only thing we can do is develop new technologies, directly or indirectly, that will create a generation of products sufficiently valuable to be built in America. Instead, we are about to strip NASA who may be our best hope.

Neither one of these candidates understands this. They are too rich and too far removed from us peasantry. All they're smart at is politicking. In all honesty, Romney might do better than Obama because of his background but I'm sure if he gets to Washington, he'll be influenced to forgo logic and replace it with programs his friends can operate and make profits in order to thank them for the gift of The Presidency.

Oh, original topic, I think his Bain background is a plus, not a minus. His party is a MINUS of prodigious proportions.

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I almost liked your post but I couldn't get past these two items. First:

Neither one of these candidates understands this. They are too rich and too far removed from us peasantry. All they're smart at is politicking.

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Although I do agree with the last sentence, I don't think it's because they're too rich or too far removed from the people. At least, it's not the main point. To me, the President of the United States no longer runs the country. They are told what to do by those with power. And that's where the "smart at politicking" comes into play.

Oh, original topic, I think his Bain background is a plus, not a minus.

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I cannot agree with this. Running a capitalist business is not a stepping stone to being an effective leader. Not that it really matters anymore, anyway.

PeteEU said:

Right now, it is Obama that is promoting his vision and views, and pointing out Romneys questionable history, and it is Romney that has presented next to nothing new, and is playing defensive politics.

But yes the left will vote for Obama, and the right will vote for Romney, but that is not what this story is focused on. It is for those who have their doubts about Romney... and there are many in the independent and even in the Republican party.

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What views? Look at his record, that's his views, unless you missed this last four years, Obama has been a complete failure.

Romney with a stellar record at Baine according to Bill Clinton, and his successful running of the Utah Olympics, and a Governor, compare that to Obama's failed economic policies. If you want more Obamafailure vote for him.

Middleground said:

I cannot agree with this. Running a capitalist business is not a stepping stone to being an effective leader. Not that it really matters anymore, anyway.

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Running a successful capitalist business is a stepping stone for this election as it is directly related to economics. Obama never ran a lemon aid stand and it shows, his economic policies has been a complete failure. Now add that Romney ran a successful Utah Olympics is another stepping stone in understanding economics, compare that again to a guy that never ran a lemon aid stand, and has proven to have a failed economic policy. Last Romney was a Governor, running a state, compare that to a guy that never ran a lemon aid stand.

Now compare Romney's success to Obama's failures.

justabubba said:

isn't the wiggle word here "ongoing" rather than "involvement"?

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Thanks for pulling a great quote that shows the immense bias of the arthor. Had ths came out by a guy running a Romney Super-PAC and it was an add going after Romney, I have no doubt at least one poster in this thread would've been complaining about a "Biased Right Wing Source" rather than suggesting the argument is legitimate.

The arthur suggests and implies that the "definition" of involvement Romney is using must be one used in a "uniquely specific way 'that means "ful-ptime, active, 60 hours a week, hands on manager?". However, since we have absolutely zero evidence that Romney even had part time, inactive, 1 hour a week, hands on managerial" time...we only have that he had a title listed on an SEC document...and on the contrary we have individuals stating he wasn't involved with the company in any active way the definition of "involvement" that he's using can be FAR closer to "Absolutely nothing at all in any way" then it is to "full time, active, 60 hours a week, hands on manager".

cpwill said:

aw. lookit that. you bought the clinton talking point.

Sadly, it turns out ole Willy was wrong

Romney has released just as many prior years (two) as John McCain did. Recent Presidents who have released none of their tax returns prior to the year in which they were elected include George W Bush, Bill Clinton, George H.W. Bush, Ronald Reagan, and Jimmy Carter.


THERE IS NO HISTORICAL STANDARD THAT ROMNEY IS FAILING TO MEET.

The Obama Campaign just wants to insist that Romney give them fodder, and see's this line of attack as a win-win for them. :shrug:

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I stand corrected. It seems that this phenomenon is concentrated on recent Republican nominees who will lose to Obama. :lol:

A couple interesting notes, though:

1. McCain paid an average rate of 33% on around $240k income ... to Romney's sub-15% rate on about $21 million....

2. Apparently Romney turned over several decades of returns to the McCain campaign when he was being vetted for VP. Of course McCain chose Sarah Palin....

danarhea said:

Does that mean you do not believe that Romney can answer those questions, so you choose to attack the messenger instead? That's an old trick, and one that won't fly either. Either Romney puts this issue to rest or he loses. It's as simple as that.

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The questions are cached with dishonestly, implication, and accusation. Their not a legitimate question of honesty, they're Glenn Beck style "ASKING QUESTIONS"

However it's being done by a liberal hack, not a conservaitve hack like Glenn Beck, so you don't care about the source. However had someone posted such a story of people asking "questions" of Obama by Glenn Beck you'd be having a great gaffaw over the ignorance of Beck.

From what I've seen, Romney and other's have provided for an answer to this. He went off to run the Olympics rather quickly. Bain proceeded with the task of finding an individual to officially replace Romney. During that point Romney was still occupying the positions he previously did but had ceased any involvement with the company during that time, leaving the day to day operations and management of it to others still with the business while he worked on the Olympics and until they could find a suitable replacement.

Why is it somehow that "attack the messenger" is a legitimate argument against Conservative biased sources but seems to be something worthy of scorn when pointing it out for liberals?

The arthur, like so many others, are doing the same ridiculous technique that is no more reasonable to be responded to here then it has been in the past....making a demand for "answers" that they either have no right too or that they've already been given the answer to and simply don't like that answer, and then when no further answer is giving making implications and accusations whlie demanding for more answers or declaring that their implications and accusations are true. Not based on facts...but based on someone not wanting to give them the time of day.

Fishstyx said:

Kind of a funny question and pretty much shows the author's hand. The companies that the Obama admin have used to push this outsourcing bit were acquired by Bain after 99.

Author is TJ Walker, runs a Democratic super-pac. So in essence, this "article" is a nothing more than a campaign ad.

I'd say the only question that Romney has to answer in this regard is whether he was directly involved in the decisions involving the outsourcing. Sure Bain has minutes on these meetings.

Lastly, why isn't the media spending equal time on Obama's outsourcing record? He appointed Jeff Immelt to head his Economic Advisory Board, GE is one of this country's biggest outsourcers.

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I don't even think the outsourcing question is pertinent. Eventually people are going to have to accept the reality that we've built a system that will not sustain the price increases related to US manufacturing and labor. We've outsourced production, call centers, and textiles because the market won't bare the costs of keeping them here. That isn't going to change as long as we have up-and-coming countries entering their own version of the industrial revolution. These countries have the ability to keep wages down, hours long, and output exponentially higher than what we'll ever see here. Eventually we'll reach equilibrium, but there is absolutely no way we can institute policies to bring those businesses back in the long run until we're closer to that equilibrium point.

Why people continue to harp on bringing manufacturing jobs back to the US is beyond me. We need to let go of manufacturing and focus on technology, science, research, and high-tech fields where we can still corner the labor market with reasonable wages that don't cause pricing explosions that disrupt economic flow.

hazlnut said:

Um... Moderates and independents won't vote for him. You know, the ones who decide national elections.

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That actually remains to be seen. Currently however an ABC/Washington Post poll fond:

Vote preferences among groups, as noted, include Romney’s best showing to date among registered voters who identify themselves as independents, 53-39 percent. LINK

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danarhea said:

Either Romney puts this issue to rest or he loses. It's as simple as that.

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Questionable how much this is actually hurting him. We'll have to wait and see some of the more major polls and what they say, as RCP hasn't updated with any polls post this whole issue. However, looking at Gallups daily tracking poll, there's been little real change during this stories time frame really.

Fletch said:

I agree that Obama derangement won't win romney the election, and I also agree that Romney needs to show that he has something to offer. But the tax returns and the Bain stuff are liberal demands and liberal distractions that Romney will never be able to answer to their satisfaction. Look, liberals aren't going to vote for the man so he should spend zero time trying to meet their endless and politically driven demands. He should lay out what he plans to do if elected and let that stand in contrast to obamas silence on his second term agenda and ignore any liberal hyperventilating about his wealth and success.

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Republican Governors to Romney: Release Tax Returns, Offer More Specifics

We have seen but one year of Reversable Mittens tax returns. Just a single year. John McCain and his team saw over twenty years of Mitt's tax returns four years ago and they rejected him for the VP slot.

What did they see that we need to see?

Zyphlin said:

Questionable how much this is actually hurting him. We'll have to wait and see some of the more major polls and what they say, as RCP hasn't updated with any polls post this whole issue. However, looking at Gallups daily tracking poll, there's been little real change during this stories time frame really.

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NPR said this morning that it was hurting in toss up states and both a Dem and GOP campaign insider both agreed on that. If this sticks, as time goes on, it will take and even larger toll.

Zyphlin said:

Questionable how much this is actually hurting him. We'll have to wait and see some of the more major polls and what they say, as RCP hasn't updated with any polls post this whole issue. However, looking at Gallups daily tracking poll, there's been little real change during this stories time frame really.

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The three most recent polls (Gallup, Rasmussen, and McClatchy/Marist show Obama +2, tied, Obama +2.

That's a pretty big shift from polls done last Thursday, which showed Obama +7.

And when you look back, excepting that +7 poll, it's been quite literally neck-and-neck for the last few weeks.

Romney hasn't announced his VP selection yet, either. Based on the e-mails I get, he's prepared to announce it before the convention. His pick could create a huge shift in numbers.

But even if it doesn't, what the numbers show is that the Bain attacks and tax record accusations aren't driving voters away from Romney in any significant measure.

cpwill said:

aw. lookit that. you bought the clinton talking point.

Sadly, it turns out ole Willy was wrong

Romney has released just as many prior years (two) as John McCain did. Recent Presidents who have released none of their tax returns prior to the year in which they were elected include George W Bush, Bill Clinton, George H.W. Bush, Ronald Reagan, and Jimmy Carter.


THERE IS NO HISTORICAL STANDARD THAT ROMNEY IS FAILING TO MEET.

The Obama Campaign just wants to insist that Romney give them fodder, and see's this line of attack as a win-win for them. :shrug:

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Not really. Romney has released one year of tax returns and one year of projected tax returns.

haymarket said:

We have seen but one year of Reversable Mittens tax returns. Just a single year.

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actually we've seen two. Which is two more than we had seen of Bush W's, Clinton's, Reagan's and Carters' when they were elected to the Presidency.

What did they see that we need to see?

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they saw the same thing apparent to all - a bitter contested primary and a guy who wouldn't have helped McCain.

haymarket said:

We have seen but one year of Reversable Mittens tax returns. Just a single year. John McCain and his team saw over twenty years of Mitt's tax returns four years ago and they rejected him for the VP slot.

What did they see that we need to see?

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That's assuming he was rejected for his tax returns. Perhaps he was rejected because McCain and his idiot advisers thought that having a woman VP would be an historic enough precedent to sway voters away from the historic precedent of the first black president. Sarah Palin damn sure wasn't selected because she vetted well. She was selected because she was eager, cute, and had a vagina. If McCain wasn't trying to pull voters in using Sarah Palin as his trophy cooter then she never would have received the nod. She had a pregnant 17 year old daughter, for Christ's sake.

poweRob said:

Not really. Romney has released one year of tax returns and one year of projected tax returns.

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Mitt Romney's 2011 Tax Return