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Are 'the issues' the only factor you consider when casting your ballot?

Smeagol

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I can think of a lot of reasons for which people vote that have nothing to do with the policies the candidate supports or doesn't support. In fact, these reasons are sometimes more important to the voter than the policy stances of the candidates.

- My family has a long tradition of being (fill-in-the-blank-political-party-members).

- Young black kids have heretofore had so many poor role models with whom they can identify. I don't like his stances on the issues but the value of of inner-city kids, most of whom have no father around having a positive example of a devoted husband, loving and responsible father and college graduate who was able to achieve the pinnacle of success without hip-hop or pro sports trumps my position on capital gains taxes and healthcare.

- I feel insulted by the most respected leaders of my own party for apparently thinking very little of my level of intelligence by making so much of the focus on ridiculous claims and dirty tactics. I'm voting AGAINST my own party out of protest and to make a statement that those tactics should not and will not work despite my opposition to the policies of the candidate for whom I will vote.
 
I can think of a lot of reasons for which people vote that have nothing to do with the policies the candidate supports or doesn't support. In fact, these reasons are sometimes more important to the voter than the policy stances of the candidates.

- My family has a long tradition of being (fill-in-the-blank-political-party-members).

- Young black kids have heretofore had so many poor role models with whom they can identify. I don't like his stances on the issues but the value of of inner-city kids, most of whom have no father around having a positive example of a devoted husband, loving and responsible father and college graduate who was able to achieve the pinnacle of success without hip-hop or pro sports trumps my position on capital gains taxes and healthcare.

- I feel insulted by the most respected leaders of my own party for apparently thinking very little of my level of intelligence by making so much of the focus on ridiculous claims and dirty tactics. I'm voting AGAINST my own party out of protest and to make a statement that those tactics should not and will not work despite my opposition to the policies of the candidate for whom I will vote.
I agree completely. This is particularly true in Presidential elections, where character evaluation is more important than for any other office.
 
Both Barak Obama and Mitt Romney are excellent role models. Hugely rich and successful. In order to win the Presidency, they will both be required to mislead and obfuscate. So, trying to use their character as a model, is wishful thinking at best.
 
Both Barak Obama and Mitt Romney are excellent role models. Hugely rich and successful. In order to win the Presidency, they will both be required to mislead and obfuscate. So, trying to use their character as a model, is wishful thinking at best.
I disagree. I don't accept the proposition that candidates need to "mislead and obfuscate". If Mr. Romney is elected, G-d willing, and if he governs contrary to how he promises to govern, then you may rest assured that he won't get my vote in 2016.
 
Both Barak Obama and Mitt Romney are excellent role models. Hugely rich and successful. In order to win the Presidency, they will both be required to mislead and obfuscate. So, trying to use their character as a model, is wishful thinking at best.


I'm not so much thinking of the candidates themselves but their supporters and the pundits who oppose them. I've seen things over the past four years that have really been indefensible IMHO coming not from a candidate but their supporters, often who also happen to be the most influential people in a political party. This is a big reason why I'm still undecided on how I'll vote in November as I ask myself do I want to vote WITH these people who have no problem resorting to any and every shameful tactic imaginable in order to advance their political agenda.
 
What has he promised that you will hold him accountable for? Real question, no sarcasm.

I actually feel fairly comfortable with Romney. I like Mormons, they have a very strong sense of community.

What do you think he hass promised? Tax cuts for the "wealth creators"? Repression of the gay? Attacking Iran? Reverting the "health care" system to the present? Is this what you support and expect of him?


I disagree. I don't accept the proposition that candidates need to "mislead and obfuscate". If Mr. Romney is elected, G-d willing, and if he governs contrary to how he promises to govern, then you may rest assured that he won't get my vote in 2016.
 
No matter who you vote for, you'll be wrong to assume that they won't devote themselves to benefitting the banksters and other friends while expressing "heartfelt sympathy" for the common man.

I'm not so much thinking of the candidates themselves but their supporters and the pundits who oppose them. I've seen things over the past four years that have really been indefensible IMHO coming not from a candidate but their supporters, often who also happen to be the most influential people in a political party. This is a big reason why I'm still undecided on how I'll vote in November as I ask myself do I want to vote WITH these people who have no problem resorting to any and every shameful tactic imaginable in order to advance their political agenda.
 
What has he promised that you will hold him accountable for? Real question, no sarcasm.

I actually feel fairly comfortable with Romney. I like Mormons, they have a very strong sense of community.

What do you think he hass promised? Tax cuts for the "wealth creators"? Repression of the gay? Attacking Iran? Reverting the "health care" system to the present? Is this what you support and expect of him?
The number one thing is his promise to repeal Obamacare. Of course, SCOTUS just might take care of that for him.
 
I don't feel many voters vote on the issues...

The only issues I feel the majority of people vote on are hot-button knee-jerk reaction topics, that have little variance based on the position up for grabs in the election... For example, Abortion is a topic that people have used at a litmus test for years... but despite all the off-balance courts, nothing has changed since Roe V. Wade... and likely won't regardless of who is elected...

Another one is racial, gender, or party bias... I feel people group up, and without even considering issues, vote for someone based on their affiliation with one of the large groups in these biases... That was readily apparent last cycle, when so many were voting for Obama because he was black, Hillary because she was a woman... However, most people ignorantly don't even know the names of the people running for most offices, and go in to vote anyone with a D or R next to their name... Included in there should be the numerous dead people who vote in each election... Since we don't check IDs, biased partygoers stuff the ballots with votes for their party from people who are deceased but still on the voter registration...

However, I feel the biggest problem isn't whether or not people vote on the issues... I think it's a major ignorance to the issues... The news agencies attempt to thwart the real topics and give the headline "the issues", and attach them to points that both the major parties agree to talk about... When in reality, most people are concerned with topics never addressed... Furthermore, many Americans are completely ignorant as to how government works, or know what stands on what issues are what... Last election, Democrats benefited from loads of ignorant voters, who couldn't speak to a single policy, but voted for Obama, because they liked him, or because "I want to get Bush out of office"... well, Bush was already going to be out of office... and in practice, it appears clearly that McCain would've been less like Bush than Obama has been... but it doesn't matter to them... Because they simply don't know, or care...

I would love to have the whole election process changed in so many ways to keep these types of voters from swaying the election, and to give more weight to the people who are intelligent and informed, and impartial...

One easy way to do so, would be to remove the party afiliations from being printed next to the candidate's name. If you don't know the candidate by name, you shouldn't be voting for them. It shouldn't matter what party is being represented by the candidate, so there's no need for it to be there on the ballot. The only reason it was put there, was to help elderly, foreign, or ignorant voters to support the party who instituted that rule...

Another way is to require voter IDs to ensure that the person voting is eligible to be voting, and is only voting once. There is simply no excuse not to be checking ID's at the voting booths.

If you do create a specific voter ID, you could also add weight to the voters registered to that ID, by counting their vote as greater than one simple vote. The vote of every citizen of this country should be counted, regardless of their education level, political views, criminal history, etc. However, I see no problem adding additional weight to voters who could pass a test to prove a greater knowledge of particular relevant civic establishment apparatus and general us history. I see no problem weighting the votes higher, if they can pass a test that shows they have a good knowledge of the candidates biographies and positions on significant positions. I could think of many other things which should have increased weight to people's votes. The Founding Father's did, too... Since when they established the Constitution, voting was done by property owners alone (which wrongfully exluded the poor, women and minorities, but rightfully limited the bounds to what they felt were the informed and interested parties in the political process). The President was also elected by the Electoral College, since they couldn't decide weather Congress or the States should decide who the president was... So we elected representatives to make that decision for us... So clearly thought there were certain people whose decisions should be weighed as higher than others...

I know there'd be a big backlash to it, which would attempt to liken it to the poll taxes, literacy tests (which I dont object to), etc. that were instituted during the Era of Jim Crow to prevent Blacks from voting... but that's clearly not the case here... Blacks get the same access to education that every other race or ethnicity do in America... There's no reason they couldn't get their votes weighed higher as well... My belief is that you'd see the same sort of divide between the smarter and more educated Blacks that you would in every other group...

Then our country would be on the road to making wiser decisions, from a more informed and intelligent voter pool, that would demand more of the media for focus on the issues... and not accept the drab yellow press that we see today...
 
Its called tribalism. I've thought it would be good to eliminate parties too but IMHO tribalism is innate to human beings. If we eliminate political parties, we would polarize over some other tribal characteristic, I think geographic region, which would be far worse IMHO. But you're right about it. Its crazy if you take the time to research the genesis of the things people are so worked up emotionally over. Often it was their own political party that came up with the idea, did first or did it bigger.
 
It's all argumentum ad populum - really. Can't stand it . . . I don't encourage it.

Decide what you believe in, figured out who best identifies with your views, and vote on those things . . . don't chance lines of conformity and empty political promises that even god couldn't keep.
 
Its called tribalism. I've thought it would be good to eliminate parties too but IMHO tribalism is innate to human beings. If we eliminate political parties, we would polarize over some other tribal characteristic, I think geographic region, which would be far worse IMHO. But you're right about it. Its crazy if you take the time to research the genesis of the things people are so worked up emotionally over. Often it was their own political party that came up with the idea, did first or did it bigger.

Exactly. It an adaption that works wonders in the ancient world for survival. In the modern world, too much tribalism gets you ****ed up society like pakistan.
 
I can think of a lot of reasons for which people vote that have nothing to do with the policies the candidate supports or doesn't support. In fact, these reasons are sometimes more important to the voter than the policy stances of the candidates.

- My family has a long tradition of being (fill-in-the-blank-political-party-members).

- Young black kids have heretofore had so many poor role models with whom they can identify. I don't like his stances on the issues but the value of of inner-city kids, most of whom have no father around having a positive example of a devoted husband, loving and responsible father and college graduate who was able to achieve the pinnacle of success without hip-hop or pro sports trumps my position on capital gains taxes and healthcare.

- I feel insulted by the most respected leaders of my own party for apparently thinking very little of my level of intelligence by making so much of the focus on ridiculous claims and dirty tactics. I'm voting AGAINST my own party out of protest and to make a statement that those tactics should not and will not work despite my opposition to the policies of the candidate for whom I will vote.

I cast my vote based on the whole picture and who I think can best deal with it in the time they have alotted to them.

You either get - 0 - which is breaking even, or something on the plus side which is a gain. We lost big with the Republicans nad thus far we have a break even point. So, my vote is fixed.
 
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No matter who you vote for, you'll be wrong to assume that they won't devote themselves to benefitting the banksters and other friends while expressing "heartfelt sympathy" for the common man.

Well, if you vote Republican or Democrat, that is.
 
Romney.... Progressive light. Obama.... Progressive heavy. There is no vote. Its establishment vs establishment. I vote no. Our great country is being dissolved. Im an immigrant and have seen it before. The problem is we are the last beacon of freedom on earth. What now?
 
I can think of a lot of reasons for which people vote that have nothing to do with the policies the candidate supports or doesn't support. In fact, these reasons are sometimes more important to the voter than the policy stances of the candidates.

- My family has a long tradition of being (fill-in-the-blank-political-party-members).

- Young black kids have heretofore had so many poor role models with whom they can identify. I don't like his stances on the issues but the value of of inner-city kids, most of whom have no father around having a positive example of a devoted husband, loving and responsible father and college graduate who was able to achieve the pinnacle of success without hip-hop or pro sports trumps my position on capital gains taxes and healthcare.

- I feel insulted by the most respected leaders of my own party for apparently thinking very little of my level of intelligence by making so much of the focus on ridiculous claims and dirty tactics. I'm voting AGAINST my own party out of protest and to make a statement that those tactics should not and will not work despite my opposition to the policies of the candidate for whom I will vote.

Let me guess, your a Republican but your going to vote for Obama.........
 
I can think of a lot of reasons for which people vote that have nothing to do with the policies the candidate supports or doesn't support. In fact, these reasons are sometimes more important to the voter than the policy stances of the candidates.

- My family has a long tradition of being (fill-in-the-blank-political-party-members).

- Young black kids have heretofore had so many poor role models with whom they can identify. I don't like his stances on the issues but the value of of inner-city kids, most of whom have no father around having a positive example of a devoted husband, loving and responsible father and college graduate who was able to achieve the pinnacle of success without hip-hop or pro sports trumps my position on capital gains taxes and healthcare.

- I feel insulted by the most respected leaders of my own party for apparently thinking very little of my level of intelligence by making so much of the focus on ridiculous claims and dirty tactics. I'm voting AGAINST my own party out of protest and to make a statement that those tactics should not and will not work despite my opposition to the policies of the candidate for whom I will vote.

I wish I thought most people voted because of the issues. But there are a couple of problems. 1. MAny agree with one candidate on some issues and another on others, so a person can be divided on the issues. 2. Keeping track and cutting through the vomit can be daunting and a little discusting. and 3. A candidate can be with you on the issues, but someone you're clearly uncomfortable with while the other candidate can be opposite your views, but you feel better about their judgment and sincereity.

I will also say this, neither party thinks much of our intelligence at all. And we do far too little to justify them thinking we deserve to be treated like an intelligent electorate.
 
I can think of a lot of reasons for which people vote that have nothing to do with the policies the candidate supports or doesn't support. In fact, these reasons are sometimes more important to the voter than the policy stances of the candidates.

- My family has a long tradition of being (fill-in-the-blank-political-party-members).

- Young black kids have heretofore had so many poor role models with whom they can identify. I don't like his stances on the issues but the value of of inner-city kids, most of whom have no father around having a positive example of a devoted husband, loving and responsible father and college graduate who was able to achieve the pinnacle of success without hip-hop or pro sports trumps my position on capital gains taxes and healthcare.

- I feel insulted by the most respected leaders of my own party for apparently thinking very little of my level of intelligence by making so much of the focus on ridiculous claims and dirty tactics. I'm voting AGAINST my own party out of protest and to make a statement that those tactics should not and will not work despite my opposition to the policies of the candidate for whom I will vote.

I try my best to stick to issues, platform, and philosophy of the candidates.
 
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