• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

US Creates 69,000 New Jobs, Unemployment Rate 8.2%

President Obama hasn't the chops for the job. He had no experience when he took the job, and we are now paying the price for voting for his inexperience. Book learning isn't the same as actual experience.


I'm voting for Romney in November. The country can't take another 4years of an OJT President.

Yea, vote like the UK for an austerity pattern of CUT--CUT--CUT for 2yrs and see the effects!!

Paul
 
Here's John Tucker's plan to fix the economy:

1.) Get manufacturing back in this country, change our trade laws and make it happen.

2.) Get an all of the above energy production going immediately.

3.) Fix the skills gap across the country, there's 3-4 million open positions without enough qualified applicants to fill them. Here in my state of Michigan, there's 80,000 - 100,000 open positions RIGHT NOW that employers can't find enough qualified applicants to fill them. Most of these positions are in healthcare, IT, law, medicine, nursing, finance, accounting, business, education and engineering. We need college students to go to college and major in THESE areas, not the dumb majors like Art, English, Psychology, Sociology, Women's Studies, etc. that build no real employable skills or relevant experience.

4.) Reform the tax code, 50% pay no income taxes and a small group of people pay the MAJORITY of the income taxes. Implement a progressive low flat tax rate structure, take out all these deductions, credits and exemptions, simplify the code.

5.) Get our budgets balanced immediately so we are no longer adding to the national debt, cut government.

6.) Get these students to stay in school and graduate high school. Where in the hell are you going in LIFE without graduating high school? I don't get it??

If you fix the skills gap ALONE, that unemployment number comes down to the 6.8% area, when you fix manufacturing and the energy production issues, now we are down to under 6% at around 5.7%. When you do everything else, we are now around 5% unemployment.

Listen folks, the foundation and BULK of what makes America number one is STILL THERE. We are still the top economy in the world and we are still growing even though it's very slow and the jobs are being added even though they are very low.

If we implement my pro-growth policies above, the jobs market will be fixed and we will have one of the biggest growth rates ever.

1) Yes, start taxing incoming foreign made products with higher Tariffs, make the Tariffs even higher for products made overseas by US companies and imported, buy Made in the USA

2) Yes, work on making US energy Independent

3) So True

4) What? Have everyone pay their fair share? ...lol... how would Lifelong Politicians get re-elected .....lol..

5) Let's start with 10% across the board cuts in Government Spending with the exception of Veterans benefits, weed out the waste and corruption in all programs

6) Keep kids in school? What and have educated people voting in our elections? ..... lol....

I may add # 7), get rid of the Job Killing laws and regulations enacted in the last 20 years :)
 
Bad jobs numbers. Market doom. Dems abondoning ship. Major pushback against Bain attacks. Dire fundraising requests.

Are you forgetting the empty suit he will be running against? For those who need to catch up on some much needed sleep ;)
 
More histrionics.... We're looking at a modest two-month dip. Democrats are not defecting. Obama has tons more money than Romney.

It will depend on how the economy performs from now to November.

Respectfully, this is a very simple minded analysis of the situation Obama finds himself in.
 
Respectfully, this is a very simple minded analysis of the situation Obama finds himself in.

It is actually a very uncomplicated situation.
 
That's why we need obama. He has more experience. He has been president for 4 years. Mexican romney has never been president in his life.


You may need to re-elect President Obama, I on the other hand, will vote for someone with experinece and not so much OJT training needed. :mrgreen:

Romney will get my vote come November. I've had enough of the OJT-in-chief.
 
Here's John Tucker's plan to fix the economy:

1.) Get manufacturing back in this country, change our trade laws and make it happen.

U.S. manufacturing is not as dismal as some argue. At the same time, it also is not as competitive as it could be. Changing trade laws won't necessarily lead to greater competitiveness and, protectionism, might lead to retaliation depriving U.S. manufacturers of access to growing export markets. This is a private sector challenge (short-term vs. long-term choices, addressing cost structure challenges, innovation and improvement, etc.) at least as much as a policy one (helping produce a world-class workforce via education, etc.)

2.) Get an all of the above energy production going immediately.

How? I'm assuming you're thinking of massive deregulation. However, achieving greater energy independence is not solely a regulatory matter. Market prices and investment are key. Your 5th point would almost certainly preclude meaningful public investment e.g., to help underwrite R&D and/or help address externalities. In the current market environment, regulatory changes would probably have a modest short-term impact.

3.) Fix the skills gap across the country, there's 3-4 million open positions without enough qualified applicants to fill them. Here in my state of Michigan, there's 80,000 - 100,000 open positions RIGHT NOW that employers can't find enough qualified applicants to fill them. Most of these positions are in healthcare, IT, law, medicine, nursing, finance, accounting, business, education and engineering. We need college students to go to college and major in THESE areas, not the dumb majors like Art, English, Psychology, Sociology, Women's Studies, etc. that build no real employable skills or relevant experience.

The structural mismatch between workforce skills and present/emerging labor market needs can't be fixed quickly. Many of the requirements e.g., in health care, require knowledge and other skills (e.g., enhanced critical thinking) that are difficult to build even over periods of time. Additional barriers e.g., geographical barriers, also exist. Structural unemployment cannot be solved in the short-term.

4.) Reform the tax code, 50% pay no income taxes and a small group of people pay the MAJORITY of the income taxes. Implement a progressive low flat tax rate structure, take out all these deductions, credits and exemptions, simplify the code.

The devil would be in the details. Given the nation's long-term fiscal challenges, any tax reform would need to be at least revenue neutral. Most economists believe that there would have to be a revenue contribution in combination with spending changes and structural entitlement reform. I agree with that consensus.

5.) Get our budgets balanced immediately so we are no longer adding to the national debt, cut government.

Fiscal consolidation will have to be gradual (and in the medium-term, it will need to address discretionary spending, mandatory spending, taxes while safeguarding crucial investments). It is not practical to immediately balance the budget. To attempt to do so would inflict a deep recession rivaling or exceeding the most recent one in magnitude and duration. Such a recession would very likely eliminate many of the current open positions you cited in #3 and create additional significant job losses in other sectors, as there would be much less need for labor in an environment of impaired aggregate demand. In turn, as one is witnessing in parts of Europe where austerity is underway, a deep recession could lead to an additional hit to government revenue. If government tried to balance the budget, additional tax hikes (your tax policy might preclude that) and/or spending reductions would be required, as fiscal targets are missed. If critical investments in education were slashed, the nation would reduce its long-term growth path. In addition, such an approach would rule out more creative policies to sustain employment e.g., with German efforts during the financial crisis being one possible model.

6.) Get these students to stay in school and graduate high school. Where in the hell are you going in LIFE without graduating high school? I don't get it??

On this point, I strongly agree. How to succeed on that front remains a challenge, though I believe improvements can be attained. Improved educational attainment is one dimension of the nation's education challenge. Another dimension involves assuring that students truly acquire the knowledge, skills, and intellectual framework/abilities to maximize their prospects. That latter dimension is not solely an education problem.

In sum, I applaud you for volunteering your ideas. My points are that the challenges are highly complex, they are not uniquely policy-related, and one has to be careful about possible contradictory aspects of policy.
 
Last edited:

Actually, the Houston Chronicle piece blamed nothing on anybody. In fact, they took a jab at Obama for blaming Bush. You'll have to point out where that article blames Bush for anything other than being an OK guy.

From that articles photo gallery..628x471.jpg


Is it me or do the Bushs look higher than the Obamas?
 
Last edited:
Yea, vote like the UK for an austerity pattern of CUT--CUT--CUT for 2yrs and see the effects!!

Paul


Well, IMO, the current admin's plan is failing miserably, so we have to go in another direction. You know the definition of stupidity don't you? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. So I hope you'll understand if I tell you I won't be voting for the same thing again.


We need leadership and it doesn't, at this point in time, reside in the WH or the present administration.
 
I hope Bush told Obama the real reason that our economy is in the tank.
Barney Frank and telling the banks to sell houses to people with no jobs or income.
Bush warned us to get out of real estate.
 
I hope Bush told Obama the real reason that our economy is in the tank.
Barney Frank and telling the banks to sell houses to people with no jobs or income.
Bush warned us to get out of real estate.

are you sure about that? He gave low income people loans. people Work at mcdonalds for 6 bucks and hour and buying a $500,000 house thanks to bush.

 
April’s revised job number comes in at 77,000, marking this as two straight months with a job gain of less than 100,000.

Certainly not a good sign. A slight rise might be seen as summer jobs become available.
 
Here's John Tucker's plan to fix the economy:

1.) Get manufacturing back in this country, change our trade laws and make it happen.

Agree. We need to balance the trade gap and protect our working class.

2.) Get an all of the above energy production going immediately.

Not sure what this entails.

3.) Fix the skills gap across the country, there's 3-4 million open positions without enough qualified applicants to fill them. Here in my state of Michigan, there's 80,000 - 100,000 open positions RIGHT NOW that employers can't find enough qualified applicants to fill them. Most of these positions are in healthcare, IT, law, medicine, nursing, finance, accounting, business, education and engineering. We need college students to go to college and major in THESE areas, not the dumb majors like Art, English, Psychology, Sociology, Women's Studies, etc. that build no real employable skills or relevant experience.

I've read alot about this. There's been conferences about it in my area. But what I don't get is, why don't these employers invest in training if they lack qualified prospects? Why is the onus entirely on the worker pool?

4.) Reform the tax code, 50% pay no income taxes and a small group of people pay the MAJORITY of the income taxes. Implement a progressive low flat tax rate structure, take out all these deductions, credits and exemptions, simplify the code.

The 50% not paying anything is a function of wage stagnation as well as tax policy. I support raising all taxes, a more gradual but more progressive tax structure with more brackets and fewer deductions. A flat tax is impractical. Progessive taxation helps minimize the social and economic harm of taxation.

5.) Get our budgets balanced immediately so we are no longer adding to the national debt, cut government.

Unfortunately, we need stimulus. The government is shedding jobs while the private sector struggles to grow. There is a demand problem, and austerity makes it worse. The credit markets were feeding demand, and since credit is tight, demand is suffering. Income stagnation is stifling growth. Too many are in debt with no money to spend.

6.) Get these students to stay in school and graduate high school. Where in the hell are you going in LIFE without graduating high school? I don't get it??

If you fix the skills gap ALONE, that unemployment number comes down to the 6.8% area, when you fix manufacturing and the energy production issues, now we are down to under 6% at around 5.7%. When you do everything else, we are now around 5% unemployment.

Listen folks, the foundation and BULK of what makes America number one is STILL THERE. We are still the top economy in the world and we are still growing even though it's very slow and the jobs are being added even though they are very low.

If we implement my pro-growth policies above, the jobs market will be fixed and we will have one of the biggest growth rates ever.

I'm afraid we have structural issues. Austerity is bad policy at a time like this, but out debt load is clearly unsustainable. Quite a Catch 22. We have no choice but to raise taxes and cut spending if we're going to tackle the debt, but doing either will further dampen growth. It's a scary time.

Just my take.
 
Robots, computers and the internet are much of our downfall. It's just too easy to automate and outsource many jobs.

Those with useful educations will always find good jobs. The "working Joe" is who will suffer the most. Not everyone is smart enough to get an engineering degree. There used to be plenty of work for them.

Check out a Mexican movie "Sleep Dealer" and you'll see a bit of the future problem. Mexican labor without the Mexicans.
 
Robots, computers and the internet are much of our downfall. It's just too easy to automate and outsource many jobs.

Those with useful educations will always find good jobs. The "working Joe" is who will suffer the most. Not everyone is smart enough to get an engineering degree. There used to be plenty of work for them.

Check out a Mexican movie "Sleep Dealer" and you'll see a bit of the future problem. Mexican labor without the Mexicans.

Which is why I chose my education in robots and automation :D

I have yet to meet a person that was incapable of an engineering degree that did not also have a certified mental handicap. It is a retarded myth. Now maybe a masters, or doctorate or something. Sure. But an Associates? A bachelors? They hardly get into calculus. I have my degree in electronics engineering. It wasn't simple. But there was nothing complex. Just to be able to pick up a glass and bring it to your mouth, the brain has to be able to grasp the math behind it.

Its not people. Its the lower education methods.
 
I am having a deja vu moment here. If I didn't know any better, I'd think there was a celebration breaking about over this poor economic news.

Anyone remember this?

 
Robots, computers and the internet are much of our downfall. It's just too easy to automate and outsource many jobs.

Those with useful educations will always find good jobs. The "working Joe" is who will suffer the most. Not everyone is smart enough to get an engineering degree. There used to be plenty of work for them.

Check out a Mexican movie "Sleep Dealer" and you'll see a bit of the future problem. Mexican labor without the Mexicans.

An economy that leaves out a significant chunk of the population is a failed economy. We'll need a paradigm shift to deal with a future of automation.
 
I am having a deja vu moment here. If I didn't know any better, I'd think there was a celebration breaking about over this poor economic news.

you'd be right. i've always found this particular aspect of political teamsports among the most depressing.
 
We will have to wait till 2016 since the GOP decide to nominate someone that is constitutionally ineligible for the presidency.

LMFAO... that sounds like a tacit admission that Obama hasn't got the skills to do so either... While at the same time attempting to discredit Romney for the fact that his father emigrated here from Mexico, and established residency before Romney was born, but regardless by being born here Romney is a legitimate citizen... So since you've established Obama isn't going to do it, and that your attempt to discredit Romney is bogus... looks like we've found our man...
 
Snake_Plissken

1) Yes, start taxing incoming foreign made products with higher Tariffs, make the Tariffs even higher for products made overseas by US companies and imported, buy Made in the USA

2) Yes, work on making US energy Independent

3) So True

4) What? Have everyone pay their fair share? ...lol... how would Lifelong Politicians get re-elected .....lol..

5) Let's start with 10% across the board cuts in Government Spending with the exception of Veterans benefits, weed out the waste and corruption in all programs

6) Keep kids in school? What and have educated people voting in our elections? ..... lol....

I may add # 7), get rid of the Job Killing laws and regulations enacted in the last 20 years

Glad someone else gets it too ;)


donsutherland

U.S. manufacturing is not as dismal as some argue. At the same time, it also is not as competitive as it could be. Changing trade laws won't necessarily lead to greater competitiveness and, protectionism, might lead to retaliation depriving U.S. manufacturers of access to growing export markets. This is a private sector challenge (short-term vs. long-term choices, addressing cost structure challenges, innovation and improvement, etc.) at least as much as a policy one (helping produce a world-class workforce via education, etc.)

Good points but understand that our trade laws are destroyed, politicians implemented these idiotic trade laws in the 90's that basically shipped our manufacturing base overseas. Like it or not, what made the middle class and what made AMERICA after the Great Depression was manufacturing. We made things, we produced things and we shipped them over the world selling them. Now American companies produce things in China and sell them back to the United States, what sense does that make? Again, horrible trade policies and we need quality policy to correct it.


How? I'm assuming you're thinking of massive deregulation. However, achieving greater energy independence is not solely a regulatory matter. Market prices and investment are key. Your 5th point would almost certainly preclude meaningful public investment e.g., to help underwrite R&D and/or help address externalities. In the current market environment, regulatory changes would probably have a modest short-term impact.

Permits and regulation to allow the production of various forms of energy to get this moving is what we need. Again, an all of the above approach, this LIKE manufacturing is just quality policy needing to be implemented. It's why Congress has a 6% approval rating, the American people understand that they don't have the correct focus as far as quality policies are concerned. Fix manufacturing and get energy production spiking in this country and watch doesn't the unemployment rate drop. The MAIN people that are unemployed (again the report shows it) are people without a high school diploma and with "some" college completed. These are those people who most likely have low skills and can't work in the Information Age positions, these are the ones that will work for the manufacturing and energy production sectors. So if you fix manufacturing and energy production regulation, you take the unemployment rate down from 8.2% to 6%.

Can it happen overnight? No, but we can FIX the policies in a short period of time to allow the process to then start moving though.

The structural mismatch between workforce skills and present/emerging labor market needs can't be fixed quickly. Many of the requirements e.g., in health care, require knowledge and other skills (e.g., enhanced critical thinking) that are difficult to build even over periods of time. Additional barriers e.g., geographical barriers, also exist. Structural unemployment cannot be solved in the short-term.

Well, again define short term? I'm looking at policy implementation that takes about 2-3 months, from there we can start the wheels moving for changes to start displaying in about 6-8 months. The problem with our political leaders is that their policies suck, ON BOTH sides of the equation.

You fix the skills gaps as I said, by cutting down on these dumb degree programs. Hell, I'm not for socialism at all, but the government already is paying for 70% - 80% of every student's college through grants and loans, so why not cut down on these dumb degree programs? These colleges shouldn't even offer programs in damn ART which has no real value in the market.

Fix manufacturing and energy, so workers with only a high school education or some college can get their a.ss back on the production lines, bringing back our Industrial economy. Fix the skills gap so workers who want to focus more on our Information Age economy, can go to college and COME OUT with skills that lead to real value in the marketplace, thus EMPLOYMENT in the Information Age sectors of business, finance, accounting, law, medicine, healthcare, nursing, medicine, engineering, IT.

These are structural issues, the US economy is still kicking a.ss, we are still number one. If you break down the unemployment report and you look at these issues, the VAST majority of these problems are POLICY issues.

Finally, tax reform and spending reform are needed as I mentioned. Social Security and Medicare won't BE HERE when I'm 65 (in 40 years) going the way it's going. We have to reform the way we spend, keeping the programs but reform how the revenue is being spent so we become efficient. For tax reform, a flat tax isn't LOWERING taxes, actually it's making taxes more simpler and eliminating uncertainty. These idiotic temporary tax cuts or tax credits don't stimulate shyt, because business owners plan for the medium and long term, not short term. I say SET the tax rates, LEAVE THEM ALONE, and LET THEM BE. Instead of every damn social issue, we have to keep discussing taxes, I'm sick of the tax debates. 3 flat tax rate systems, lower the rates, eliminate the deductions/credits/exemptions, and let's just call it a night.

Again, as I keep saying, the US is still number one, we just have structural issues that can be fixed through better policies. These are policy based issues.

Even with our now global ties to Europe (again another dumb a.ss policy issue, so another country is irresponsible and falls so now does the US?), again we are talking about dumb policy issues.

The private sector isn't the problem, it's these idiots in Congress!
 
Last edited:
Good points but understand that our trade laws are destroyed, politicians implemented these idiotic trade laws in the 90's that basically shipped our manufacturing base overseas. Like it or not, what made the middle class and what made AMERICA after the Great Depression was manufacturing. We made things, we produced things and we shipped them over the world selling them. Now American companies produce things in China and sell them back to the United States, what sense does that make? Again, horrible trade policies and we need quality policy to correct it.

The fact is that we are manufacturing more now than we ever have. In fact, U.S. manufacturing accelerated in the 90s. And further, manufacturing has been been the number one sector leading our recovery.

The Demise of America

Protectionism is no solution. It would just start a massive trade war that would cause huge inflation.
 
LMFAO... that sounds like a tacit admission that Obama hasn't got the skills to do so either... While at the same time attempting to discredit Romney for the fact that his father emigrated here from Mexico, and established residency before Romney was born, but regardless by being born here Romney is a legitimate citizen... So since you've established Obama isn't going to do it, and that your attempt to discredit Romney is bogus... looks like we've found our man...


I dont have to discredit romney. He discredited himself. If only his parents waited to cross the border to get it on.
 
Back
Top Bottom