If you would take a half an hour...

Hello fellow DP'ers. It's been awhile since I've been on this site, I've gone off and done some other things while I've been away, school has been busy etc.

However, I have come back to spread a message. A message that, even at my young age of 17, I believe to be imperative to the cause of liberty and security of republic.

First off, I would like to bring a few recent events to your attention, in case you have not noticed them as a lot of the media outlets have not reported them.

-The government, through passing the NDAA now has the authority to use the military to arrest you, within America, and indefinitely detain you (that means you could be held for the rest of your natural life) WITHOUT a trial or lawyer. Furthermore, they are authorized to use torture against you, again without convicting you with a crime nor providing you with a lawyer or a trial by jury. Those of you familiar with the Bill of Rights would know that is a violation of the 4th, 6th, and 7th amendment.

House passes defense bill; Approves indefinite detention of terror suspects - CBS News

-Congress is trying to add another provision to the NDAA, one that would allow the use of propoganda by the government against American citizens. In the past, it was illegal for the government to use propoganda to be used against domestic audiences, but the government seeks to change that. This means that they will be able to disseminate COMPLETELY false information to you in order to sway public opinion into supporting their actions.

Congressmen Seek To Lift Propaganda Ban

-They have attempted to gain the authority to control and censor media and info on the web (SOPA).

SOPA, PIPA: What you need to know - Political Hotsheet - CBS News

-The military is creating hundreds of fake online personas in order to influence online debates about American politics. This, coupled with the lifting of the ban on propoganda would make it legal for the military to flood American online forums and discussions with lies and fake support in order to sway public opinion to support government actions.

US military creates fake online personas - Telegraph

-Breaking update, President Obama has appointed John Brennan as the "Death Czar", meaning he is head of the group that makes the list of targets that are to be assassinated by the government. to re-iterate, the government has set the precedent of being able to assassinate American citizens without trial or charging them with a crime

http://theintelhub.com/2012/05/24/msm-john-brennan-death-czar/

Are you feeling afraid yet? Are you angry? Do you think that one days these illegitmate powers could be used against you or your family if you disagree with the government?

Now, does it anger you that the supposed two nominees for president BOTH support the NDAA?

(link: Romney says he would sign the NDAA Mitt Romney - Yes I would Sign NDAA - YouTube)

Do you wish that there was something else, someone else, you could vote for that would actually follow the constitution, as well as follow the ideas of limited government, end unconstitutional wars, and begin to reign in the massive amount of debt we have piled up? I invite you to watch this video, posted on May 24, 2012.

RONY 2012 - YouTube

Like it and share it people. If you have any questions concerning Ron Paul's ideas, positions, electability etc. I would be happy to try and address them. Furthermore, if you have other reasons for why you support Romney or Obama over Paul and would like to share/debate them with me, I would welcome that as well.

Ron Paul for prez is a lost cause for 2012, pragmatically speaking.

Goshin said:

Ron Paul for prez is a lost cause for 2012, pragmatically speaking.

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Could you elaborate as to why you believe that please? I can't address or debate your ideas if you don't provide a basis for them=)

Locke and Load said:

Could you elaborate as to why you believe that please? I can't address or debate your ideas if you don't provide a basis for them=)

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He came nowhere near winning the Republican nom. I don't know if he's even planning to run as an independent; in any case no modern candidate other than Dem or Repub has won a single electoral vote in living memory.

I see no practical reason to continue discussing Dr. Paul as a viable candidate for 2012.

Goshin said:

He came nowhere near winning the Republican nom. I don't know if he's even planning to run as an independent; in any case no modern candidate other than Dem or Repub has won a single electoral vote in living memory.

I see no practical reason to continue discussing Dr. Paul as a viable candidate for 2012.

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The Republican nomination hasn't been decided yet, so I'm not sure what the first part of your comment is about... Anyways I'm going to go ahead and assume that you meant that he isn't anywhere near winning the nomination, because, according to the AP delegate count, Romney has like 950+ out of the 1144 needed for the nomination, thus there is no way for Dr. Paul to win.

Would I be correct in that assumption? Or is there something else you'd like to say before I go on?

I also encourage you to go and watch the video in it's entirety if you have not done so.

He won’t win, but your vote can still be counted. Well, maybe not your if you will still be 17. I think it is important for the major parties to see the votes they are losing.

It is always good to see someone young passionate about politics. I liked your links. The one with the military creating fake online personas is interesting. It says they won’t target US audiences. Not sure how they will avoid that on internet forums.

Locke and Load said:

The Republican nomination hasn't been decided yet, so I'm not sure what the first part of your comment is about... Anyways I'm going to go ahead and assume that you meant that he isn't anywhere near winning the nomination, because, according to the AP delegate count, Romney has like 950+ out of the 1144 needed for the nomination, thus there is no way for Dr. Paul to win.

Would I be correct in that assumption? Or is there something else you'd like to say before I go on?

I also encourage you to go and watch the video in it's entirety if you have not done so.

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I've seen lots of videos, not in the mood to watch another just now. Manana maybe.

Yes, I mean that Dr. Paul has essentially zero chance of winning the R nom, and running as an Independent or 3rd party candidate is pretty useless these days, and is likely to remain that way unless something really drastic happens to get the attention of Joe Average.

Don't get me wrong, I like Dr. Paul even if I don't agree with him in all particulars. If he stood a snowball's chance in Arizona of winning, I might even vote for him (given the choices we currently face).

But to talk about Paul for 2012 is just a pipe dream IMO.

Sarcogito said:

He won’t win, but your vote can still be counted. Well, maybe not your if you will still be 17. I think it is important for the major parties to see the votes they are losing.

It is always good to see someone young passionate about politics. I liked your links. The one with the military creating fake online personas is interesting. It says they won’t target US audiences. Not sure how they will avoid that on internet forums.

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I'll be 18 before November And thanks for the feedback as well. The fake online personas are being said to only be used on foreign websites (such as ones that are sponsered/run by AQ or other terrorist groups) and that they won't be used on American forums because that would break the current law of proproganda not being allowed to target domestic audiences, but as you can see congress is hoping to change that.

Also, could you elaborate as to why you think he won't win? Ron Paul supportors know he won't be a shoo-in by any means, but it's always so frustrating to see people that say they agree with Ron Paul's views (although I do not know if you support him or not) but then say he can't win so they don't want to vote for him. Self-fulfilling prophecy much? If everyone that likes his ideas doesn't vote for him because they don't think he can win, then obviously he isn't going to win.

Don't vote for someone just because they have an R or D before their name.

Principles before party.

The only thing Ron Paul running as an independent will accomplish is securing the re-election for Obama. The reason I say this is because Paul is not going to be winning over any liberal voters, very few at most, however, he will likely draw much more votes that may have gone to Romney. This is going to be a close race and I think Paul will divide the conservative vote at best while leaving liberals with one candidate.

Goshin said:

I've seen lots of videos, not in the mood to watch another just now. Manana maybe.

Yes, I mean that Dr. Paul has essentially zero chance of winning the R nom, and running as an Independent or 3rd party candidate is pretty useless these days, and is likely to remain that way unless something really drastic happens to get the attention of Joe Average.

Don't get me wrong, I like Dr. Paul even if I don't agree with him in all particulars. If he stood a snowball's chance in Arizona of winning, I might even vote for him (given the choices we currently face).

But to talk about Paul for 2012 is just a pipe dream IMO.

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So was the American Revolution at the beginning

But anyways, what are you basing your prediction that he won't win on? The mainstream delegate count that shows Romeny with like 950 and Ron Paul with about 100? Would you be surprised if I told you those numbers are grossly distorted and highly inaccurate? And that Ron Paul is actually only about 120 delegates behind Romeny, and this is before the big conventions at Texas (I think 120 delegates at stake) and California (172)? And that if Ron Paul has a strong showing at these conventions and sweeps a large amount of delegates (which he will most likely be able to do, Texas being his home state) then he would essentially be tied or leading Romeny in the delegate count?

The AP bases their delegate counts on the primaries, but those are non-binding votes, thus Ron Paul has been focusing on (and very successful) at acquiring delegates at these conventions, hoping to have enough to force a brokered convention in August.

Locke and Load said:

I'll be 18 before November And thanks for the feedback as well. The fake online personas are being said to only be used on foreign websites (such as ones that are sponsered/run by AQ or other terrorist groups) and that they won't be used on American forums because that would break the current law of proproganda not being allowed to target domestic audiences, but as you can see congress is hoping to change that.

Also, could you elaborate as to why you think he won't win? Ron Paul supportors know he won't be a shoo-in by any means, but it's always so frustrating to see people that say they agree with Ron Paul's views (although I do not know if you support him or not) but then say he can't win so they don't want to vote for him. Self-fulfilling prophecy much? If everyone that likes his ideas doesn't vote for him because they don't think he can win, then obviously he isn't going to win.

Don't vote for someone just because they have an R or D before their name.

Principles before party.

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Pragmatism and perspective based on experience.

I was around for Mr Ears, Ross Perot. He had a huge campaign financed in part by his own vast wealth. He was very widely talked about, his name a household word. Lots of people were talking about voting for him.

In the end he got about 15% of the vote, and not one single electoral vote.

Nor has any other non-R non-D candidate gotten a single electoral vote in living memory.


Go around saying "Ron Paul" to Joe and Jane Average on the street. Half will say "Ron who?" and most of the rest will say "oh, you mean that funny little man that said all that crazy stuff in the debates..."

There's just no point. Maybe Ron ( or Rand ) will have a better chance in 2016, but not in 2012.

I'm no fan of Romney, but I think it is important to get Obama out before he does more damage and won't throw away my vote on someone who has no chance.

Locke and Load said:

So was the American Revolution at the beginning

But anyways, what are you basing your prediction that he won't win on? The mainstream delegate count that shows Romeny with like 950 and Ron Paul with about 100? Would you be surprised if I told you those numbers are grossly distorted and highly inaccurate? And that Ron Paul is actually only about 120 delegates behind Romeny, and this is before the big conventions at Texas (I think 120 delegates at stake) and California (172)? And that if Ron Paul has a strong showing at these conventions and sweeps a large amount of delegates (which he will most likely be able to do, Texas being his home state) then he would essentially be tied or leading Romeny in the delegate count?

The AP bases their delegate counts on the primaries, but those are non-binding votes, thus Ron Paul has been focusing on (and very successful) at acquiring delegates at these conventions, hoping to have enough to force a brokered convention in August.

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Well, if he manages to pull that off then that will be different. It will at least be a much more interesting race than the current Attack of the Clones.

I admire your passion, young man.... but you have to remember than Paul is something of an outsider in the R party and that the party elite don't like him. You're still talking about a long shot, a "hail mary play" depending on Slim Pickins being in just the right place at the right time.

I don't wish to dampen your enthusiasm, but four decades of observing politics tells me that this just isn't likely.

Goshin said:

Pragmatism and perspective based on experience.

I was around for Mr Ears, Ross Perot. He had a huge campaign financed in part by his own vast wealth. He was very widely talked about, his name a household word. Lots of people were talking about voting for him.

In the end he got about 15% of the vote, and not one single electoral vote.

Nor has any other non-R non-D candidate gotten a single electoral vote in living memory.


Go around saying "Ron Paul" to Joe and Jane Average on the street. Half will say "Ron who?" and most of the rest will say "oh, you mean that funny little man that said all that crazy stuff in the debates..."

There's just no point. Maybe Ron ( or Rand ) will have a better chance in 2016, but not in 2012.

I'm no fan of Romney, but I think it is important to get Obama out before he does more damage and won't throw away my vote on someone who has no chance.

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If you're talking about people funding a campaign through vast wealth, you'd be better off comparing that to Romney, not Paul. Furthermore, you state you want to vote for someone "other than Obama" correct? Although Mitt Romeny IS someone different than Obama, they share a lot of the same ideas and stances.

Obama and Romney are both for the NDAA.

Romney passed the most restrictive gun laws in Massachusetts history.

Romeny was actually, briefly registered as a Democrat (Mitt Romney Was Once, Briefly, A Democrat | Mediaite)

Guess who's funding these people?

Obama's top donors:
Goldman Sachs
JP Morgan
Morgan Stanley
Top Contributors to Barack Obama | OpenSecrets

Romney's top donors:
Goldman sachs
JP Morgan
Morgan Stanley
Top Contributors to Mitt Romney | OpenSecrets

Wouldn't that be a conflict of interest? It would look that way, however, both candidates are funded by the banks because both candidates would be protecting wall street banksters and corporations. Both would keep our troops oversees in perpetual war, funding the military-industrial complex and big banks.


On the other hand...

Ron Paul's top donors:
US Army
Us Air Force
US Navy


Top Contributors to Ron Paul | OpenSecrets

Goshin said:

Well, if he manages to pull that off then that will be different. It will at least be a much more interesting race than the current Attack of the Clones.

I admire your passion, young man.... but you have to remember than Paul is something of an outsider in the R party and that the party elite don't like him. You're still talking about a long shot, a "hail mary play" depending on Slim Pickins being in just the right place at the right time.

I don't wish to dampen your enthusiasm, but four decades of observing politics tells me that this just isn't likely.

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I admit it is unlikely, due to the vast power of the corrupted establishment turned against him (Think Arizona, Oklahoma, Massachusetts etc. where the Republican party is often breaking it's own rules and committing voter fraud to deny Paul delegates.). However, this is more than just a nomination, more than just an election. This is a movement that will (and has) transcend Ron Paul. Right now he just happens to be the best figurehead we have for the revolution. Already, the liberty movement has taken over several state GOP's in Maine, Nevada, and Minnesota. I'm just doing my part

At the very least, watch the video and see where you stand. Logging off for now but will be back to answer questions later.