• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

From 'Hope' to Hypocrisy: The Senator Who Became A Sellout

Top Cat said:
Fortunately we have had so many republicans who walk the walk. Honestly, you righties believe your own bull**** so easily. Keep em Shecky.
Click to expand...

And you don't find it odd in the least that there are Democrats out there who wanted Bush out so bad... yet are defending Obama with the "Bush did it too" line of logic?

Wouldn't that then make you want to vote out Bush III?
 
It's a liberal maxim that...if you can't honestly defend Obama then you must attack Bush.
 
Mycroft said:
It's a liberal maxim that...if you can't honestly defend Obama then you must attack Bush.
Click to expand...

Can you imagine someone at their job. The boss comes in and says how did this mistake happen and you say that the person you replayed made the same mistake so don't blame me!
 
Mycroft said:
It's a liberal maxim that...if you can't honestly defend Obama then you must attack Bush.
Click to expand...

It's a conservative maxim that you can only attack Obama if you don't compare his performance to anyone else's performance.
 
washunut said:
Can you imagine someone at their job. The boss comes in and says how did this mistake happen and you say that the person you replayed made the same mistake so don't blame me!
Click to expand...

Can you imagine someone in his job saying, "sales are up 25% since I took over from Mr. George, so I think I deserve a raise"? I can. How else do you gauge job performance if you don't compare it to past performance?
 
beerftw said:
whats worse ishe has done practically everything bush has,yet the left still blames bush but ignores obama for doing the same thing.
Click to expand...

Well said, and oh my, look, that correct assessment was followed up with a perfect example of what you said:

AdamT said:
I would agree that he hasn't kept those promises 100%, but he is still better in both respects than his predecessors, and certainly better than the GOP leadership.
Click to expand...

Amazing how that worked out.
 
AdamT said:
It's a conservative maxim that you can only attack Obama if you don't compare his performance to anyone else's performance.
Click to expand...

I look at Obama's performance as a function of the results of that performance. His results are dismal.

Any comparison to Bush's performance...or results...do not enhance or diminish Obama's. Comparing the two is an exercise in futility and avoidance.
 
Mycroft said:
I look at Obama's performance as a function of the results of that performance. His results are dismal.

Any comparison to Bush's performance...or results...do not enhance or diminish Obama's. Comparing the two is an exercise in futility and avoidance.
Click to expand...

You cannot reach any conclusion about results without comparing them to other results. That's pretty damned obvious. What do you think market analysts do when a company reports, e.g. its 1st quarter earnings? Do thay just look a the number and give it a thums up or thumbs down? Of course not. The critical analysis involves comparing this years Q1 results to the previous quarter, Q1 results from last year, and the trend over a period of years.
 
AdamT said:
You cannot reach any conclusion about results without comparing them to other results.
Click to expand...

That's pretty damn stupid. Someone says let me spend a trillion dollars and I will get the economy back on track and get america working. It is easy to look at the results of that alone and see the failure. I requires no review of what other people did.
 
Arbo said:
That's pretty damn stupid. Someone says let me spend a trillion dollars and I will get the economy back on track and get america working. It is easy to look at the results of that alone and see the failure. I requires no review of what other people did.
Click to expand...

Of course you can't judge the results if you don't know what the starting point was, or how it compared to other downturns, or what the existing debt situation was, etc.
 
AdamT said:
Can you imagine someone in his job saying, "sales are up 25% since I took over from Mr. George, so I think I deserve a raise"? I can. How else do you gauge job performance if you don't compare it to past performance?
Click to expand...

The past as in a recovery cycle after a recession. Of course there is an uptick in the economy - ever hear of the business cycle??

To talk about jobs declining at the peak of a recession and say we are doing well because we stopped the loss is both obvious and ignorant of the reality of a business cycle.

How about asking for a raise when you are the worst performing manager of an economy coming out of a recession, even after using unprecedented fiscal and monetary stimulus.
 
AdamT said:
You cannot reach any conclusion about results without comparing them to other results. That's pretty damned obvious. What do you think market analysts do when a company reports, e.g. its 1st quarter earnings? Do thay just look a the number and give it a thums up or thumbs down? Of course not. The critical analysis involves comparing this years Q1 results to the previous quarter, Q1 results from last year, and the trend over a period of years.
Click to expand...

What analysts will look at when comparing managers is their relative growth versus their competitors in the same environment. So if Target grew same store sales 3% YOY but Macys grew 4%, people would not look favorably on the job done by Target's management. Just saying we had some growth does not cut it in the real world.
 
washunut said:
The past as in a recovery cycle after a recession. Of course there is an uptick in the economy - ever hear of the business cycle??

To talk about jobs declining at the peak of a recession and say we are doing well because we stopped the loss is both obvious and ignorant of the reality of a business cycle.

How about asking for a raise when you are the worst performing manager of an economy coming out of a recession, even after using unprecedented fiscal and monetary stimulus.
Click to expand...

I wonder how you can tell if it's just a business cycle (as if "the business cycle" includes the worst recession in three generations) if you don't compare it to past business cycles?
 
washunut said:
What analysts will look at when comparing managers is their relative growth versus their competitors in the same environment. So if Target grew same store sales 3% YOY but Macys grew 4%, people would not look favorably on the job done by Target's management. Just saying we had some growth does not cut it in the real world.
Click to expand...

They will also look at past performance and the trend over time. But we seem to agree that looking at current results in isolation is meaningless. That's the point.
 
AdamT said:
Of course you can't judge the results if you don't know what the starting point was, or how it compared to other downturns, or what the existing debt situation was, etc.
Click to expand...

and again we have......
 

Attachments

  • 534924_442097382473262_100000190120861_1905735_1771586081_n.jpg
    534924_442097382473262_100000190120861_1905735_1771586081_n.jpg
    11.6 KB · Views: 16
AdamT said:
I wonder how you can tell if it's just a business cycle (as if "the business cycle" includes the worst recession in three generations) if you don't compare it to past business cycles?
Click to expand...

While this was a deep recession, so was the recession of the 80's, so not sure I would agree that this is the worst in three generations. It is different because it was a financial crisis versus a more normal one, but did not rise to the level of the great depression. Thanks should go in my view for us not falling into a depression to the actions largely of the Fed which took extraordinary steps that many have found easy to vilify.

That being said, I am not sure that actions taken after 2008/2009 have not made our recovery shallower than what we could have had had we let the markets clear as we did with the S&L crisis in the 80's. Had that been done we would have taken more short term pain but could have had more of a V shaped recovery. So much of our economy revolves around housing, that to keep it banging around the bottom for many years seems certain to give us a slow, painful recovery.
 
washunut said:
While this was a deep recession, so was the recession of the 80's, so not sure I would agree that this is the worst in three generations. It is different because it was a financial crisis versus a more normal one, but did not rise to the level of the great depression. Thanks should go in my view for us not falling into a depression to the actions largely of the Fed which took extraordinary steps that many have found easy to vilify.

That being said, I am not sure that actions taken after 2008/2009 have not made our recovery shallower than what we could have had had we let the markets clear as we did with the S&L crisis in the 80's. Had that been done we would have taken more short term pain but could have had more of a V shaped recovery. So much of our economy revolves around housing, that to keep it banging around the bottom for many years seems certain to give us a slow, painful recovery.
Click to expand...

I don't think there's any question that this was the deepest recession since the GD. The S&L crisis was a blip compared to the situation the banking system faced in 2007/08 where it really wasn't an option to let the banks fail. That would have resulted in economic armageddon. There was no way to unwind the mortgage disaster in any kind of quick, organized fashion. IMO we're doing it the only way that makes sense.
 
Trinnity said:


Okay. Let's discuss Obama's credibility.
Do you think he's lived up to the things he promised, and is this viddy fair or a hatchet job?

(continued next post)
Click to expand...

After a little checking, the source of this series videos is none other than "www.gop.com."

The GOP has never been in the business of producing unbiased political videos - particularily when it comes to Barack Obama.

May I suggest that "DebatePolitics.com" should consider billing the Republican Party for providing public exposure of their political advertisements.
 
Last edited:
AdamT said:
You seem to confuse thinking with overthinking.
Click to expand...

Nope. Your 'overthinking' is apparent in just about every thread you partake in... you really worked it the hardest in the fact vs. opinion thread.
 
Arbo said:
Nope. Your 'overthinking' is apparent in just about every thread you partake in... you really worked it the hardest in the fact vs. opinion thread.
Click to expand...

I'd be more concerned with underthinking if I was you....
 
AdamT said:
I'd be more concerned with underthinking if I was you....
Click to expand...

That it can be seen that you are over thinking things has nothing to do with my cognitive abilities. But thanks for failing again.
 
Arbo said:
That it can be seen that you are over thinking things has nothing to do with my cognitive abilities.
Click to expand...

Think again.
 
jgarden47 said:
After a little checking, the source of this series videos is none other than "www.gop.com."

The GOP has never been in the business of producing unbiased political videos - particularily when it comes to Barack Obama.

May I suggest that "DebatePolitics.com" should consider billing the Republican Party for providing public exposure of their political advertisements.
Click to expand...

gnaw... really... a political party would release videos that are partisan in nature?
(coughObamas17minuteholywoodproductionofhisfirsttermcough)

this coming from a kid who has no problem with sources such as the NY Times, or other publications with noted biases...

It was funny in the 2008 White House Correspondents dinner when Craig Ferguson said he wasnt sure who he was gonna vote for, and then asked who was gonna vote Republican and got a murmer and then asked who was gonna vote Democrat to a loud cheer, to feed the line "That oughta put to bed the issue of liberal media bias..."

You do realize though... as much as you can doctor things, and add leans onto them... someones own words are their own words... These clips arent something he said with a gun to his head, these are his own words... which reflect either his own thoughts, or what he wants to project to you that he's thinking...

The facts are he's appointed numbers of lobbyists, and crafted policies or given handouts to large campaign contributors...

Now, when you issue a statement shooting the messenger, it tends to show you're in agreement that what he did is horrible, but would rather attack the other party than defend the actions of your own... Id say as the result of this administration, there will be very few who stand for what the President has done, rather than try to fear monger against "Republicans"...
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom