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Jon Stewart Marvels At Fox News’ Pivot To Romney

Actually, I think a lot of people have difficulty separating fact from opinion. I'd hesitate to call Adam or anyone else ridiculous or a moron because they don't understand the difference.

I do think he's wrong, however.

You're also a sensible person though. He is not. He chooses to call people names and insult them rather than be respectful and debate. That's why I enjoy debating him. The more wrong he is, the more insults are thrown out.
 
Fox News and its local affiliates are one big GOP infomercial!
 
You're also a sensible person though. He is not. He chooses to call people names and insult them rather than be respectful and debate. That's why I enjoy debating him. The more wrong he is, the more insults are thrown out.

hey, I could do that. I didn't know it was appreciated.
 
It is not semantics. There is a difference between fact and opinion.

Hydrogen is said to be a gas lighter than air.
Oxygen reacts violently with hydrogen whenever there is a spark.
The combination of hydrogen and oxygen is a liquid we call water.
Sulfur is a solid at room temperature.
When hydrogen, oxygen, and sulfur combine, the result is hydrogen sulfide.
Hydrogen sulfide stinks.

Now, which is the opinion that might be found in a chemistry text? Hint: Only one is an opinion. The rest are facts. None of them, however, is ever going to be proven false.

These are all simply observations -- sort of like saying "blue is blue". Of course, as basic as they seem, some of them may turn out to be wrong. Certainly there were other "facts" in the past that purported to explain the causes of explosions. Maybe the chemical combinations will turn out to be more complex than we think. Maybe there are different sorts of compounds formed that we aren't aware of. Etc.

A good explanation someone posted on the web:

There are many different definitions of fact
As a professional logician, I use one very precise meaning of the word fact: a statement of a state of affairs that is true for all time.

That’s possible only in logic. Human discourse is always, inevitably fuzzy. For example, by my definition, "the sun is shining" needs to be qualified by an understanding that the statement applies only to this particular instant in time; the same statement will not be true in a few hours.

In other words, it depends on the definition of what "is" is. To be a fact, I will interpret the statement as implicitly qualified to a single instant, and under that interpretation the statement is a fact. It is a pragmatic of human discourse that we all assume each other to be speaking facts and not to bring up known falsehoods.

It gets messier when you start using modal logics like probability. The statement "It is possible that it rained last night" can be a fact only relative to the state of ignorance about last night’s weather, which is implicit in the statement. Future logics ("It will rain tomorrow") are epistemologically even messier; the statement’s truth is literally impossible to evaluate until the events have passed.

So when I use the word "fact", at least professionally, I mean something which does not change and I do not describe something as a fact unless I am certain it will not change.

Sadly, I am not perfect, and I have very few actual facts at my disposal. We see through a glass, darkly, and nearly all facts come with a host of implicit qualifications, limitations, and caveats which are unstated for sake of brevity. Often, you can safely ignore them because they turn out to be irrelevant.

When framing a logical argument, it’s helpful for both parties to stipulate any facts being used, at least by clarifying the qualifications and potentially revisiting them when they become important. As I said before, it's one of the pragmatic aspects of human discourse to assume that we are all speaking only in facts, at least with the implicit qualifications, even if it is sometimes necessary to make them explicit.

In the extremest case, quantum mechanics may mean that there are no true facts at all in the universe, only a set of self-consistent but mutually-inconsistent explanations. But on the macroscopic scale those inconsistent explanations always collapse down to a single one, for reasons that are not yet well understood. That is, the cat is always alive or dead in the box (to borrow Schroedinger’s famous experiment), and the half-state has never been and never will be observed.

So QM aside, I’ll stick with the macroscopic definitions of facts. When I argue with somebody using a different definition, I’ll try to encourage them to use my definition by qualifying any changeable facts that they use with clauses like "As best we know" or "It is my opinion that". It dramatically simplifies the logic, which is hard enough for human beings to apply as it is, even while increasing the complexity of the space in which we’re arguing.
 
Actually, I think a lot of people have difficulty separating fact from opinion. I'd hesitate to call Adam or anyone else ridiculous or a moron because they don't understand the difference.

I do think he's wrong, however.

I agree... Adam is lumped into a large group of ignorant morons, who have trouble discerning fact from opinion... but that doesn't make him any less of a moron... and when he goes on arguing that he does, while continually proving that he clearly doesnt... my opinion is it makes him more worthy of the moniker...
 
These are all simply observations -- sort of like saying "blue is blue". Of course, as basic as they seem, some of them may turn out to be wrong. Certainly there were other "facts" in the past that purported to explain the causes of explosions. Maybe the chemical combinations will turn out to be more complex than we think. Maybe there are different sorts of compounds formed that we aren't aware of. Etc.

..........
 

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You're also a sensible person though. He is not. He chooses to call people names and insult them rather than be respectful and debate. That's why I enjoy debating him. The more wrong he is, the more insults are thrown out.

Not true. I abide the golden rule -- do unto others. If someone is respectful to me then I am happy to have a respectful debate. If someone is a prick then I will return the favor. Simple as that. I don't think Dittohead could argue that I've been disrespectful in this debate about facts, although we obviously disagree.
 
Not true. I abide the golden rule -- do unto others. If someone is respectful to me then I am happy to have a respectful debate. If someone is a prick then I will return the favor. Simple as that. I don't think Dittohead could argue that I've been disrespectful in this debate about facts, although we obviously disagree.

Chill bro. Wasn't talking about you. I was talking about IndepCentristMA. I re-read my post. I could see how you'd mistake that though. Apologies.
 
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