The next president needs to have a strong stance against Christian Terrorists.

We've seen what happened in Norway with these Christian terrorists. Anders Behring Breivik planted a bomb and went on a shooting rampage killing 77 people. He said he would do it again against non-Christians and other cultures. We really need a President that profiles these white extremist Christians and stops them committing these terrible acts like they do with the Muslims. The last thing I want is supporters of this guy in my city.

Billa said:

We've seen what happened in Norway with these Christian terrorists. Anders Behring Breivik planted a bomb and went on a shooting rampage killing 77 people. He said he would do it again against non-Christians and other cultures. We really need a President that profiles these white extremist Christians and stops them committing these terrible acts like they do with the Muslims. The last thing I want is supporters of this guy in my city.

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Why was I not surprised to see, extremist Christians defined as white?

What about the black extremist Christians? Nevermind them?

apdst said:

Why was I not surprised to see, extremist Christians defined as white?

What about the black extremist Christians? Nevermind them?

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You are right, christian terrorist extremist are available in all colors unfortunately.

And let's be honest, any president would have taken a strong stance against them because all of them take a tough stance on all possible terrorism.

There is a fundamental difference between religion-influenced terrorist groups and one-man mental breaks who use religion as justification for killing. A group poses a larger threat than one person.

During the crusades I'd say yeah, let's go after crazy christian groups. In todays day and age most Christian crazies are isolated. The groups that use religion as a force for hate and death are not, largely, Christian.

I think he needs to take a stand against stands. Music stands, handstands, and one night stands...all stands.

spud_meister said:

I think he needs to take a stand against stands. Music stands, handstands, and one night stands...all stands.

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i wont stand for this

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spud_meister said:

I think he needs to take a stand against stands. Music stands, handstands, and one night stands...all stands.

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I gave you a like because you include music stands. It's an inside joke among some of us musicians at a board for musicians. LOL.

tessaesque said:

There is a fundamental difference between religion-influenced terrorist groups and one-man mental breaks who use religion as justification for killing. A group poses a larger threat than one person.

During the crusades I'd say yeah, let's go after crazy christian groups. In todays day and age most Christian crazies are isolated. The groups that use religion as a force for hate and death are not, largely, Christian.

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There ya go...you said it before me...one nutjob or two does not make for a war on christian terrorists....having said that the nutjob should be treated just like all other flavors of terrorists

How about we just have a strong stance against any terrorist, regardless of race, gender, religion (or lack thereof), or motivation?

tessaesque said:

There is a fundamental difference between religion-influenced terrorist groups and one-man mental breaks who use religion as justification for killing. A group poses a larger threat than one person.

During the crusades I'd say yeah, let's go after crazy christian groups. In todays day and age most Christian crazies are isolated. The groups that use religion as a force for hate and death are not, largely, Christian.

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So abortion clinic bombers, Mormons and Catholics (Prop 8, anyone?) aren't Christian? Pat Robertson and the 700 Club crowd aren't Christian? The rash of theocratic assaults upon women's rights isn't heavily (if not primarily) motivated by the dogmas of various Christian groups?

Do MOST followers of and within such groups engage in organized violence? No. Do they support, fund, and brainwash themselves and each other and their children into accepting, if not celebrating, the bigotry and rationalizations later used by extremists among them? Many of them do.

Moderate craziness and polite variants of theocracy enable and embolden the bona fide crazies. Were it not for using the less-crazy for cover, the outright fringe folks would typically not get off the ground.

While religion per se is not automatically a guaranteed training ground for lethal extremists, it's not automatically benign either. Christians have definitely NOT earned a free pass. They should be scrutinized based upon their conduct like anyone else.

Deuce said:

How about we just have a strong stance against any terrorist, regardless of race, gender, religion (or lack thereof), or motivation?

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Political correctness demands that we treat white Christians harsher than anyone else.

cmakaioz said:

So abortion clinic bombers, Mormons and Catholics (Prop 8, anyone?) aren't Christian? Pat Robertson and the 700 Club crowd aren't Christian? The rash of theocratic assaults upon women's rights isn't heavily (if not primarily) motivated by the dogmas of various Christian groups?

Do MOST followers of and within such groups engage in organized violence? No. Do they support, fund, and brainwash themselves and each other and their children into accepting, if not celebrating, the bigotry and rationalizations later used by extremists among them? Many of them do.

Moderate craziness and polite variants of theocracy enable and embolden the bona fide crazies. Were it not for using the less-crazy for cover, the outright fringe folks would typically not get off the ground.

While religion per se is not automatically a guaranteed training ground for lethal extremists, it's not automatically benign either. Christians have definitely NOT earned a free pass. They should be scrutinized based upon their conduct like anyone else.

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There is an important element missing. Such crazy actions are not supported by their church and are roundly ostracized by their peers within a Christian organization when such things occur.

Radical Muslim teachings are not only condoned by some mosques but they recruit people for this specific purpose.

You seem to be conflating bigotry and terrorism. That dog wont hunt. You are also confusing the scope of the spread of such behavior. I see you didnt note that Prop 8 was supported by percentage by more blacks and hispanics in California than whites, why do you suppose that was? Bigotry? Religion?

Billa said:

We've seen what happened in Norway with these Christian terrorists. Anders Behring Breivik planted a bomb and went on a shooting rampage killing 77 people. He said he would do it again against non-Christians and other cultures. We really need a President that profiles these white extremist Christians and stops them committing these terrible acts like they do with the Muslims. The last thing I want is supporters of this guy in my city.

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Hmmm...

Some nutjob goes off the deep end in Norway and you think this should be an issue when considering who our next President is?

Tell me, Billa...do you have any examples of this kind of nutjobbery happening in our country? Are you REALLY worried that there might be supporters of that Norway nutjob in YOUR city?

Or are you just trolling?

OpportunityCost said:

There is an important element missing. Such crazy actions are not supported by their church

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My inclusion of quantifiers and qualifiers in my statements was done on purpose. They don't seem to be reflected in your response.

OpportunityCost said:

Radical Muslim teachings are not only condoned by some mosques but they recruit people for this specific purpose.

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And the same -- not different -- critique applies to them as well WHEN that is true, but guess what? That's not the topic. Check the thread title if you don't believe me.

OpportunityCost said:

You seem to be conflating bigotry and terrorism.

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Polite bigotry sets the foundation for the outright crazies. People don't go from being reasonable through a massive overnight jump into imposing religious beliefs through the government overnight. There is a continuum of theocracy -- and of associated levels of aggression from such theocracy and religious dogma -- with many people along it in a continuous distribution.

OpportunityCost said:

That dog wont hunt. You are also confusing the scope of the spread of such behavior. I see you didnt note that Prop 8 was supported by percentage by more blacks and hispanics in California than whites, why do you suppose that was? Bigotry? Religion?

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I don't suppose anything. I KNOW it was (and still is) bigotry...primarily promoted by religious dogma. Mormons led the charge in terms of funding and organizing all manner of bigoted campaign ads, but they didn't manage Prop 8 alone...they had plenty of help from Catholics and various Christian denominations. No mistake about it...were it not for theocrats of several different flavors joining forces, Prop 8 would never make the ballot, let alone scrape through and pass.

In any case, my original point remains: no religion, including Christianity, gets a free pass. ALL religious adherents are reasonable targets of special scrutiny when it comes to political issues, including the bigotry which lays the foundation for fundamentalist terrorism.

It's like nobody remembers recent history.

ChuckBerry said:

It's like nobody remembers recent history.

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Was McVeigh a christian terrorist?

Why can't we just take a stand against terrorism of all types?

Don't play dense Mycroft. It's too easy to do on the internet.

soccerboy22 said:

Why can't we just take a stand against terrorism of all types?

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I would and can but someone seems to want to lay the blame at the feet of the religion itself when all indicators are that Christians not only dont condone it, they condemn it.
That is not true when it comes to Islam. CMK also is placing bigotry at the same moral level as terrorism. One can give rise to the other but the role of religion as either a condemning or condoning force seems to missing from his assessment.

Just feels to me like he wants to paint as wide a brush as possible and let one religion off the hook by placing moral equivalence between Islam and Christianity when the leaders of each group have a very different message.

Short version: hes being an excuser and **** disturber.

Billa said:

We've seen what happened in Norway with these Christian terrorists. Anders Behring Breivik planted a bomb and went on a shooting rampage killing 77 people. He said he would do it again against non-Christians and other cultures. We really need a President that profiles these white extremist Christians and stops them committing these terrible acts like they do with the Muslims. The last thing I want is supporters of this guy in my city.

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That's not how effective profiling works.

ChuckBerry said:

It's like nobody remembers recent history.

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Mycroft said:

Was McVeigh a christian terrorist?

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By most accounts, McVeigh was somewhat of a lapsed Catholic. If I had to pigeonhole him in a group, it would probably be the militia movement.

OpportunityCost said:

I would and can but someone seems to want to lay the blame at the feet of the religion itself when all indicators are that Christians not only dont condone it, they condemn it.

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Wrong. There do exist Christians who condone terrorism, as demonstrated by the fact of their direct participation in it, and citing their religious beliefs as a basis for it (i.e. abortion clinic bombers). I pointed out qualifiers and quantifiers of this statement in a previous post, but they didn't seem to have any impact on some of the people supposedly responding to them.

OpportunityCost said:

That is not true when it comes to Islam.

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This is not only false, but bigoted as well. Back here in reality, there are factions within all of the "big three" religions which adopt a rigid and lethal fundamentalism, and cite it as a basis of their terrorist acts. Christianity is NOT special in this regard...it has such people in its ranks too.

OpportunityCost said:

CMK also is placing bigotry at the same moral level as terrorism. One can give rise to the other but the role of religion as either a condemning or condoning force seems to missing from his assessment.

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That's a direct lie. I've made no statement about my assessment of the relative weight of bigotry vs. terrorism. Furthermore, I EXPLICITLY cited the cover of religious moderates as a developmental/incremental form of support which may create a foundation for extremists:

Moderate craziness and polite variants of theocracy enable and embolden the bona fide crazies. Were it not for using the less-crazy for cover, the outright fringe folks would typically not get off the ground.

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Kindly refrain from outright lies about my posts.

OpportunityCost said:

Just feels to me like he wants to paint as wide a brush as possible and let one religion off the hook by placing moral equivalence between Islam and Christianity when the leaders of each group have a very different message.

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Ah...more bigotry and lies. Kindly explain how you get that interpretation when I expressed EXACTLY the opposite:

While religion per se is not automatically a guaranteed training ground for lethal extremists, it's not automatically benign either. Christians have definitely NOT earned a free pass. They should be scrutinized based upon their conduct like anyone else.

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The bolded phrases indicate clear recognition that the hazard of moderate religious adherents providing support and cover for extremists is NOT present for some religions but magically absent for others, but in fact a risk of ANY religious population.

OpportunityCost said:

Short version: hes being an excuser and **** disturber.

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Alright...that's two lies and an ad hominem all in one post. Congratulations...Thou Art Flushed.

Christian terrorism is a huge problem. They committed the holocaust, crusades, inquisition. The KKK is a christian organization. we need to do something about these extremist christians.

ChuckBerry said:

It's like nobody remembers recent history.

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Yes. Mcveigh another christian terrorist. This problem will only get worse.

99percenter said:

Christian terrorism is a huge problem. They committed the holocaust, crusades, inquisition. The KKK is a christian organization. we need to do something about these extremist christians.

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and after all those horrible atrocities... they still don't have the body count extremist atheists do.

go figure <shrug>

Mcveigh wasn't a christian extremists terrorist.. he was a nutbag militia-type extremist who thought he was paying the federal government back for their terrorism ( waco, ruby ridge). not a bad motive, but certainly a heinous inexcusable act on his part.


but no, Christian terrorists are not a "huge problem"... they are a very minor problem. ( except to militant atheists)
gangbangers are a much bigger problem... drug cartels are huge problem