Romney and the Mormon Factor

Wiggen said:

Religious bias is foolish. Talking about it isn't foolish because it really exists.

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Of course religious bias is alive and well. People that go into a bald-headed tailspin over religion, are as biased as those who go the opposite.

I don't care what you believe in or how you worship what you believe in, just don't expect me to join in and don't expect me to jump on the religion bashing train. IMO you can worship moonbeams. I don't care. It doesn't effect me.

We all have a vote and can do with our vote as we wish.

jamesrage said:

Romney's religion will not hurt him. What will hurt Romney is the fact he is a liberal masquerading as a conservative. If Evangelicals don't vote for Romney it is because a lot of them are conservatives.I don't know if you know this but conservatives generally try to avoid voting for libs. This boo hoo they won't vote for Romney because he is a mormon is nothing more than a load of crap.

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Conservatives voted for Bush didn't they?

Dittohead not! said:

Conservatives voted for Bush didn't they?

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Was Bush as blatant as a liberal as Romney?

Proteus said:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/26/us/26iht-letter26.html



I tend to agree with this.

The question is how much will hit hurt him in the general election, assuming he ultimately wraps up the nomination? I don't think many hard core evangelicals will vote for Obama, but they might just stay home.

Thoughts?

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I have to disagree with this, Mormonism is in at least my opinion the least of his problems. He needs to in someway deal with the fact that a large majority of people see him as a flip-flopper and find a way to be someway more personable and seem less like a rich wall steeter who is out of touch with America. If he could do those two things the nomination would be in the bag. For me at least the only Mormon problem is the post-baptism they do to Jews to convert them after death.

partier9 said:

I have to disagree with this, Mormonism is in at least my opinion the least of his problems. He needs to in someway deal with the fact that a large majority of people see him as a flip-flopper and find a way to be someway more personable and seem less like a rich wall steeter who is out of touch with America. If he could do those two things the nomination would be in the bag. For me at least the only Mormon problem is the post-baptism they do to Jews to convert them after death.

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If you look at the results....state after state, it is the evangelical vote that is running from Romney, not the conservative vote. The only states that Santorum has won have been those with Huge Evangelical population. It absolutely is the Mormon issue. Evangelicals hate mormons...period. They would vote for any Republican over a mormon. That being said....they hate Obama more, so they will hold their nose and vote for Romney in the general election.

disneydude said:

If you look at the results....state after state, it is the evangelical vote that is running from Romney, not the conservative vote. The only states that Santorum has won have been those with Huge Evangelical population. It absolutely is the Mormon issue. Evangelicals hate mormons...period. They would vote for any Republican over a mormon. That being said....they hate Obama more, so they will hold their nose and vote for Romney in the general election.

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I gotta say, for a Libby, you sure do have the skinny on "evangelicals/conservatives" and all their bad characteristics and hates. Do you usually go in disguise or do you tell them you're really "just like them". I say you need to apply to the CIA, they could use an undercover guy/gal like you. But might I suggest, first put down or hide the broadbrush you have in your hand. Good luck.

disneydude said:

If you look at the results....state after state, it is the evangelical vote that is running from Romney, not the conservative vote. The only states that Santorum has won have been those with Huge Evangelical population. It absolutely is the Mormon issue. Evangelicals hate mormons...period. They would vote for any Republican over a mormon. That being said....they hate Obama more, so they will hold their nose and vote for Romney in the general election.

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What you fail to realize is that republican doesn't equal conservative.Most evangelicals are conservative.Conservatives in general try to avoid voting for liberals. Romney is no conservative.


- HUMAN EVENTS

the kwanawk said:

i think it is a sad day when people judge a man on their religion above their ideas. dont get me wrong im a ron paul guy all the way, but if he doesnt win my second bet is romney. because of his ideas not because of this so called mormon factor.

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So, you'd be happy to vote for a Moslem, Hindu, Buddhist, Scientologist? It would make no difference to your decision?

Billy the Kid said:

I gotta say, for a Libby, you sure do have the skinny on "evangelicals/conservatives" and all their bad characteristics and hates. Do you usually go in disguise or do you tell them you're really "just like them". I say you need to apply to the CIA, they could use an undercover guy/gal like you. But might I suggest, first put down or hide the broadbrush you have in your hand. Good luck.

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Sorry....but it widely known the disdain that evangelicals have for Mormons. Most of the anti-Mormon propoganda that is out there is published by evangelical groups. You would have to have lived on the moon to not be aware of the anti-mormon rhetoric that is prevalent in the evangelical community. And the facts are what they are. Santorum has won the states that he has won by garnering large percentages of evangelical voters. He loses in states where there aren't huge evangelical populations. Sorry....that's just the facts.

jamesrage said:

What you fail to realize is that republican doesn't equal conservative.Most evangelicals are conservative.Conservatives in general try to avoid voting for liberals. Romney is no conservative.


- HUMAN EVENTS

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Only someone to the extreme far right would reasonably call Romney a liberal. You pidgeonhole yourself when you do. The fact of the matter is that Romney beats Snatorum handily among non-evangelical Conservatives. The difference is....given an alternative, evangelicals will not vote for a mormon.

BTW....I imagine that you probably consider Barry Goldwater a "liberal" as well. Am I correct?

disneydude said:

Sorry....but it widely known the disdain that evangelicals have for Mormons. Most of the anti-Mormon propoganda that is out there is published by evangelical groups. You would have to have lived on the moon to not be aware of the anti-mormon rhetoric that is prevalent in the evangelical community. And the facts are what they are. Santorum has won the states that he has won by garnering large percentages of evangelical voters. He loses in states where there aren't huge evangelical populations. Sorry....that's just the facts.

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Funny thing is, if Santorum was this straight-talking, say-what-he-thinks, honest Joe that he portrays himself to be, he'd tell the Evangelicals just what mainstream Catholicism thinks about their heretical beliefs such as predestination and the like.

Andalublue said:

So, you'd be happy to vote for a Moslem, Hindu, Buddhist, Scientologist? It would make no difference to your decision?

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As much as I don't care for the religious background of a candidate, I would be EXTREMELY hesistant to vote for a Scientologist. To me, it would almost be like voting for Heaven's Gate.

The only polls I've seen have him suffering more due to being a Mormon with Liberals than with Conservatives.

Even then, all of hte polls regarding his mormonism doesn't actually work out well because it assumes that the Mormonism is the reason for peoples dislike, rather than perhaps what the mormoism stands for in their mind regarding political issues and or their view of Mitt Romney itself shading their reasoning for answering one way or another about a generic "mormon" candidate.

I think the issue is significantly overblown.

Zyphlin said:

The only polls I've seen have him suffering more due to being a Mormon with Liberals than with Conservatives.

Even then, all of hte polls regarding his mormonism doesn't actually work out well because it assumes that the Mormonism is the reason for peoples dislike, rather than perhaps what the mormoism stands for in their mind regarding political issues and or their view of Mitt Romney itself shading their reasoning for answering one way or another about a generic "mormon" candidate.

I think the issue is significantly overblown.

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That might be true except for one thing Zyph....Mormonism views are ultra-conservative. So I don't think you can argue that it is mormon views on political issues that are driving Evangelicals away. Evangelicals and Mormons share almost the exact social conservative agenda.

partier9 said:

I have to disagree with this, Mormonism is in at least my opinion the least of his problems. He needs to in someway deal with the fact that a large majority of people see him as a flip-flopper and find a way to be someway more personable and seem less like a rich wall steeter who is out of touch with America. If he could do those two things the nomination would be in the bag. For me at least the only Mormon problem is the post-baptism they do to Jews to convert them after death.

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I'd say the least of his problems is worrying about where his next meal is coming from.

His image as a flip-flopper etc. is certainly a problem among many independents (such as myself), but his religion seems to be a real problem with his republican base. Either problem on it's own could very well be enough to sink his chances. Put them together and he's barely more electable than Santorum or Gingrich in the general.

disneydude said:

That might be true except for one thing Zyph....Mormonism views are ultra-conservative. So I don't think you can argue that it is mormon views on political issues that are driving Evangelicals away. Evangelicals and Mormons share almost the exact social conservative agenda.

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I do so love how you focus on what is a relatively smaller group than the two large groups I spoke of (Conservatives and liberals). And in regards to evangelicals, I point you to the second part of my statement. The most well known and pouplar mormon candidate on the national stage in theis decade has been Mitt Romney. Mitt Romney, a man who is known for "flip flopping" on one of the most important issues to evangelicals in terms of abortion. A man whose viewed on some of his past actions as being weak on gay marriage, another issue important to evangelicals. A man who, generally, is considered a "moderate" Republican which is again something generally not liked by evangelicals. Due to this, when answering questions in a poll about voting for a "mormon" candidate, even when it's not specifically saying Romney it would not be surprising if peoples views about Romney shaped their answer more so than their views about mormon's in general.

Proteus said:

His image as a flip-flopper etc. is certainly a problem among many independents (such as myself), but his religion seems to be a real problem with his republican base.

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Again, you base this on what? Anecdotal or something concrete?

I've seen two significant polls regarding this issue on a national stage, and from what it seems it's that Democrats, not Repulicans, have a larger issue with voting for a Mormon. Yet the stones are repeatedly cast at the Republican base. Why is that, and based on what fats?

jamesrage said:

Was Bush as blatant as a liberal as Romney?

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Why, yes, now that you ask, yes he was.

Zyphlin said:

Again, you base this on what? Anecdotal or something concrete?

I've seen two significant polls regarding this issue on a national stage, and from what it seems it's that Democrats, not Repulicans, have a larger issue with voting for a Mormon. Yet the stones are repeatedly cast at the Republican base. Why is that, and based on what fats?

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Correct, and I only hear Democrats criticize the Mormon religion.

If this was really the case, shouldn't Romney do better among younger voters than older voters, rather than opposite. I mean, older voters tends to be more bigoted and care about religious differences. What seems more likely is that younger voters are more online, and hence can get more information about Romney's flip flopping, and his campaign methods. Even I, preferred Romney in the beginning before I had any knowledge about his flip flopping.

disneydude said:

Only someone to the extreme far right would reasonably call Romney a liberal. You pidgeonhole yourself when you do.

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Only someone on the far left would think Romney is not a liberal.You pidgeonhole yourself as a far leftie when you try to claim he is not a liberal. Romney has a proven history of being a liberal,his tenure as governor of Massachusetts proves he is a liberal.

The fact of the matter is that Romney beats Snatorum handily among non-evangelical Conservatives.

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You seem to be confusing republican with conservative.Any self respecting conservative will not knowingly vote for a liberal. But a die hard would sell his soul to the devil if it could guarantee his party a victory republican will vote for a liberal just as long as he has a R next to his name.Heck if Obama had a R next to his name these die hard republicans would vote for him just as long as the media told them he was the most viable republican candidate.

The difference is....given an alternative, evangelicals will not vote for a mormon.

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Most evangelicals will vote for a conservative over a lib any day of the week.

BTW....I imagine that you probably consider Barry Goldwater a "liberal" as well. Am I correct?

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Does he support abortion, support Obama/Romney care, supports forcing people to purchase health insurance, believe in the man made global warming fairy tale religion, supports of gay marriage or the closet gay marriage supporter term civil unions or domestic partnerships, support cap and trade, support anti-2nd amendment laws and many other issues that liberals supports?

Zyphlin said:

Again, you base this on what? Anecdotal or something concrete?

I've seen two significant polls regarding this issue on a national stage, and from what it seems it's that Democrats, not Repulicans, have a larger issue with voting for a Mormon. Yet the stones are repeatedly cast at the Republican base. Why is that, and based on what fats?

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They are hoping to make conservative and republicans feel guilty and use that guilt to guilt them into knowingly vote a lib.

disneydude said:

That might be true except for one thing Zyph....Mormonism views are ultra-conservative. So I don't think you can argue that it is mormon views on political issues that are driving Evangelicals away. Evangelicals and Mormons share almost the exact social conservative agenda.

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I can see issues like the post-death baptisms and other theological stances capturing the imaginations of liberals more than conservatives. It strikes of religious hubris, which tends to be an issue that contemporary liberals can latch onto. Furthermore, if/when Romney becomes the opponent of the President, liberals will grab onto anything to defend the Democratic Party and its President, mostly because people are petty creatures. You can also expect conservatives to put aside their theological stances in order to defend, to whatever extent, the nominee. Again, people are petty creatures.

Dittohead not! said:

Why, yes, now that you ask, yes he was.

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So Bush supported cap and trade, abortion, believes in the man made global warming fairy tale, a supporter of gay marriage or the close gay marriage supporter terms like civil unions or domestic partnerships, supports anti-2nd amendment laws and many other things things that liberals are notorious for supporting? I never heard bush supporting those things.

jamesrage said:

Only someone on the far left would think Romney is not a liberal.You pidgeonhole yourself as a far leftie when you try to claim he is not a liberal. Romney has a proven history of being a liberal,his tenure as governor of Massachusetts proves he is a liberal.

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How do you even know if Romney is a liberal or not? He has taken every single position on every single issue. I suspect that he really is a Republican moderate, but I don't know. Do you know?

Camlon said:

How do you even know if Romney is a liberal or not?

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His history as governor of Massachusetts.

He has taken every single position on every single issue.

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He has flipped on a lot of issues since the moment he decided he wanted to run for president.

I suspect that he really is a Republican moderate, but I don't know.

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He is a lib masquerading as a conservative because he knows that liberal republicans have a snow balls chance in hell at winning the GOP nomination.

Do you know?

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Yes I do know.

The Mitt Romney Deception
Despite recent statements across the country by Governor Mitt Romney claiming he's pro-life, pro-family and a committed conservative, a broad investigation of his actual statements, actions, and public positions over the years indicates that he has spent his entire career speaking and governing as a liberal - and that his new found conversion to conservatism very likely coincides with his candidacy for the presidency.


http://massresistance.org/docs/marriage/romney/record/#economic_issues
Socialized medicine.

http://massresistance.org/docs/marriage/romney/record/#gun_control
Severe gun control

http://massresistance.org/docs/marriage/romney/record/#abortion
Abortion Issues

http://massresistance.org/docs/marriage/romney/record/#homo_marriage
Pro-gay/fake marriage

http://massresistance.org/docs/marriage/romney/record/#homo_govt
Appointed gay and liberal judges to positions.


The Conservative Voice News and Columns

http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/...usetts_li.html

http://www.boston.com/news/local/bre...ork_at_ro.html
Standing on stage at a Republican debate on the Gulf Coast of Florida last week, Mitt Romney repeatedly lashed out at rival Rudy Giuliani for providing sanctuary to illegal immigrants in New York City.

Yet, the very next morning, on Thursday, at least two illegal immigrants stepped out of a hulking maroon pickup truck in the driveway of Romney's Belmont house, then proceeded to spend several hours raking leaves, clearing debris from Romney's tennis court, and loading the refuse back on to the truck.

In fact, their work was part of a regular pattern. Despite a Globe story in Dec. 2006 that highlighted Romney's use of illegal immigrants to tend to his lawn, Romney continued to employ the same landscaping company -- until today. The landscaping company, in turn, continued to employ illegal immigrants.


Why We Hate Mitt Romney So Much :: :: FITSNewsFITSNews
Seriously, if this guy isn’t struck by lightning at some point during the 2008 campaign there’s no justice in the world. After all, it’s one thing to flip-flop on every issue under the sun in an effort to fool people into thinking you’re something you’re not, but Romney is now taking the art of bull***** to a whole new level - attacking people for doing the same stuff he did.

Romney’s latest swipe alleges that Hizzoner Giuliani is “soft on immigration” because he turned New York into a “sanctuary city” for illegal immigrants.

Of course what Romney failed to mention was that three cities in Massachusetts formally declared themselves to be “sanctuary cities” (i.e. cities that promise to provide government services to illegal immigrants) during his term as governor, and Romney did absolutely nothing about it.



Page 2: Giuliani Vows to End Illegal Immigration - ABC News

Sanctuary Cities Under Romney

But Giuliani's campaign said that Romney's aggressive charge on this issue is inconsistent with Romney's record. While governor of Massachusetts from 2003 until 2007, three cities in Romney's home state – Somerville, Cambridge, and Orleans -- either declared or reissued declarations stating that they are in essence sanctuary cities.