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Photo ID's?

Jack Webb

Jack Webb

Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2011
Messages
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Location
Clearwater, Florida
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
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March 12, 2012

The Obama administration blocked Texas’s new law requiring voters to show government-issued photo identification at the polls.

The reason? Obviously to win elections illegally.

In the REAL world identification is necessary. Legitimate citizens must produce a picture ID for everything from buying beer to driving a car. Right?

1. Boarding an airplane
2. Writing a check
3. Cashing a check
4. Using a credit card
5. Driving a motor vehicle
6. Applying for a business license
7. Applying for permission to hold a protest or rally
8. Securing employment
9. Purchasing a house or real estate
10. Renting a domicile
11. Renting a motor vehicle
12. Purchasing a firearm (Includes BB guns)
13. Applying for a hunting license (waived for 16 and 17 year olds when their legal guardian provides a photo ID)
14. Applying for a fishing license (waived for 16 and 17 year olds when their legal guardian provides a photo ID)
15. Purchasing alcoholic beverages
16. Purchasing tobacco or products that contain nicotine
17. Purchasing a motor vehicle
18. Initial registration of a motor vehicle
19. Applying for a building permit
20. Receiving prescription medicine
21. Purchasing OTC medicine that contains pseudoephedrine
22. Serving on jury duty
23. Getting a bank account
24. Cash transactions of $5000.00 or greater
25. Sales tax exemption for people aged 80 and above
 
Here's a question:

Does implementing voter ID requirements solve an actual problem? Or is it fixing something that isn't broken?
 
the items you listed are privileges, not rights. Voting is a right. I don't think the issue is that ID is required, I think it is more the type of ID. For example, in some states a student ID isn't an acceptable form of ID to vote, yet a gun permit is. In NY, I know many people who don't have drivers license because they don't drive so if that became the law, why should they have to be harmed by having to get a DL.

I think what is more important is to think about why this is now an issue. It's certainly not because voter fraud is rampant...
 
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JasonI said:
the items you listed are privileges, not rights. Voting is a right. I don't think the issue is that ID is required, I think it is more the type of ID. For example, in some states a student ID isn't an acceptable form of ID to vote, yet a gun permit is. In NY, I know many people who don't have drivers license because they don't drive so if that became the law, why should they have to be harmed by having to get a DL.

I think what is more important is to think about why this is now an issue. It's certainly not because voter fraud is rampant...
Click to expand...

Sorry, voting in a presidential election is NOT, I repeat, NOT a right.

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But, for the sake of argument, let's pretend that it is a right. Identification PREVENTS voter fraud. We all have a right to having our electoral process protected from liars and thieves. Anyone who doesn't admit this, in my opinion, is intellectually dishonest.
 
JasonI said:
the items you listed are privileges, not rights. Voting is a right. I don't think the issue is that ID is required, I think it is more the type of ID. For example, in some states a student ID isn't an acceptable form of ID to vote, yet a gun permit is. In NY, I know many people who don't have drivers license because they don't drive so if that became the law, why should they have to be harmed by having to get a DL.

I think what is more important is to think about why this is now an issue. It's certainly not because voter fraud is rampant...
Click to expand...
And of course you have no problem with people purchasing and carrying any weapon they choose in line with an actual STATED constitutional right...correct?
 
Whoever wrote this post has NO idea what their talking about. Obama does not get illegal votes, he never did, it's all just a big lie by the right to make their humiliating loss in 2008 justified. There has never been any major study to confirm widespread voter fraud in elections, it's all speculation, always by the GOP. Is there anything wrong with requiring voter ID to vote? Nope. But if such policies are to be supported by democrats, obtaining an ID must be easy easy as possible without requiring any form of cost by the voter trying to obtain it. Why not have thumb-print scanning systems? You walk into a DMV, get your picture taken, walk out. You don't need to present a BANK ACCOUNT or any other endless, costly forms of documentation this way. This has been proposed in the past but the GOP didn't like the idea...why? It defeats their purpose for proposing such legislation in the first place, suppressing low-income voters who don't tend to vote Republican resulting in low voter turnout. It's not a very well kept secret that Republicans tend to favor better in elections when less people vote, requiring voters to present ID to vote is fraud in itself, not the other way around.
 
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All you have to fear is exposure. Its beyond comical that people think that OMIGOSH...having to HAVE and actually SHOW ID in order to prove you are who you say are is a violation of ones 'rights'. ****ing pathetic.
 
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SypherAL said:
Whoever wrote this post has NO idea what their talking about. Obama does not get illegal votes, he never did, it's all just a big lie by the right to make their humiliating loss in 2008 justified. There has never been any major study to confirm widespread voter fraud in elections, it's all speculation, always by the GOP. Is there anything wrong with requiring voter ID to vote? Nope. But if such policies are to be supported by democrats, obtaining an ID must be easy easy as possible without requiring any form of cost by the voter trying to obtain it. Why not have thumb-print scanning systems? You walk into a DMV, get your picture taken, walk out. You don't need to present a BANK ACCOUNT or any other endless, costly forms of documentation this way. This has been proposed in the past but the GOP didn't like the idea...why? It defeats their purpose for proposing such legislation in the first place, suppressing low-income voters who don't tend to vote Republican resulting in low voter turnout. It's not a very well kept secret that Republicans tend to favor better in elections when less people vote, requiring voters to present ID to vote is fraud in itself, not the other way around.
Click to expand...

Well I can't speak for the Republican Party, I'm a registered libertarian and vote libertarian. I didn't vote for George W. Bush, I voted for Harry Browne. In 2008, I voted for Bob Barr.

Like I said, anyone who defends allowing voters to vote without a proper identification is, in my opinion, intellectually dishonest. Your post, in my opinion, is a joke. But hey, post away. But don't tell me those voters that you want to allow to vote have never bought a six-pack of beer. And if they did, they had to show their ID unless they bought it "illegally."
 
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Jack Webb said:
The reason? Obviously to win elections illegally.
Click to expand...
I am not sure that "obviously" means what you think it means.


Jack Webb said:
Sorry, voting in a presidential election is NOT, I repeat, NOT a right.
Click to expand...
Even if your un-sourced picture of words did imply what you seem to think it does, it's still possible that we vote for more things that the presidency. ymmv
 
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Jack Webb said:
View attachment 67123939

Well I can't speak for the Republican Party, I'm a registered libertarian and vote libertarian. I didn't vote for George W. Bush, I voted for Harry Browne. In 2008, I voted for Bob Barr.

Like I said, anyone who defends allowing voters to vote without a proper identification is, in my opinion, intellectually dishonest. Your post, in my opinion, is a joke. But hey, post away. But don't tell me those voters that you want to allow vote have never bought a six-pack of beer. And if they did, they had to show their ID unless they bought it "illegally."
Click to expand...

Who determines what "proper identification" is?
 
Jack Webb said:
... those voters that you want to allow vote have never bought a six-pack of beer. And if they did, they had to show their ID unless they bought it "illegally."
Click to expand...
buying beer w/o showing id is not illegal.
 
Jack Webb said:
View attachment 67123933

Sorry, voting in a presidential election is NOT, I repeat, NOT a right.

View attachment 67123934

But, for the sake of argument, let's pretend that it is a right. Identification PREVENTS voter fraud. We all have a right to having our electoral process protected from liars and thieves. Anyone who doesn't admit this, in my opinion, is intellectually dishonest.
Click to expand...

Identification also prevents legitimate voters from voting. The question is, how many legitimate voters are we willing to disenfranchise to prevent how many fraudulent votes from being cast?

As far as I know, actual cases of voter fraud are extremely rare. It's a crime that gives zero benefit on an individual level and carries a strong penalty if caught. To actually swing an election would require fraud on a large scale, with exponentially higher chances of getting caught. It has not been satisfactorily demonstrated to me that voter fraud is a large enough problem to bother with.
 
I don't think I've had to show an ID to buy a beer in at least 20 years.

In any case, as I've mentioned in the other three or four threads on this same topic, you can't measure the reasonableness of the government intrusion (that's what this is) in isolation. You have to measure it against the severity of the harm the regulation is meant to address. In this case the harm -- voter impersonation -- is all but nonexistent, and therefore any sort of non-trivial intrusion is problematic.
 
View attachment 67123940
JasonI said:
Who determines what "proper identification" is?
Click to expand...

This is getting so ridiculous. Did you read my first post? In the REAL WORLD, you know, the REAL WORLD, here's a list again:

1. Boarding an airplane
2. Writing a check
3. Cashing a check
4. Using a credit card
5. Driving a motor vehicle
6. Applying for a business license
7. Applying for permission to hold a protest or rally
8. Securing employment
9. Purchasing a house or real estate
10. Renting a domicile
11. Renting a motor vehicle
12. Purchasing a firearm (Includes BB guns)
13. Applying for a hunting license (waived for 16 and 17 year olds when their legal guardian provides a photo ID)
14. Applying for a fishing license (waived for 16 and 17 year olds when their legal guardian provides a photo ID)
15. Purchasing alcoholic beverages
16. Purchasing tobacco or products that contain nicotine
17. Purchasing a motor vehicle
18. Initial registration of a motor vehicle
19. Applying for a building permit
20. Receiving prescription medicine
21. Purchasing OTC medicine that contains pseudoephedrine
22. Serving on jury duty
23. Getting a bank account
24. Cash transactions of $5000.00 or greater
25. Sales tax exemption for people aged 80 and above

This isn't about some abstract idea that you have to strain your brain to IMAGINE. THE REAL WORLD just means what it seems to mean, the REAL WORLD. You don't even have to have an imagination for this discussion.

Go buy a six-pack of beer for a lesson in what the REAL WORLD is.
 
Jack Webb said:
View attachment 67123940

This is getting so ridiculous. Did you read my first post? In the REAL WORLD, you know, the REAL WORLD, here's a list again:
Click to expand...

In the REAL WORLD, there are millions of people who get along just fine without a photo ID, and would only need to obtain one in order to vote. So why make them go to that trouble when there is no evidence that voter impersonation is a real problem?
 
Deuce said:
Here's a question:

Does implementing voter ID requirements solve an actual problem? Or is it fixing something that isn't broken?
Click to expand...
I live in Ohio, here they trade crack cocaine for completed voter registration forms.

Seems pretty suspicious to me.
 
Jack Webb said:
View attachment 67123940

This is getting so ridiculous. Did you read my first post? In the REAL WORLD, you know, the REAL WORLD, here's a list again:

1. Boarding an airplane
2. Writing a check
3. Cashing a check
4. Using a credit card
5. Driving a motor vehicle
6. Applying for a business license
7. Applying for permission to hold a protest or rally
8. Securing employment
9. Purchasing a house or real estate
10. Renting a domicile
11. Renting a motor vehicle
12. Purchasing a firearm (Includes BB guns)
13. Applying for a hunting license (waived for 16 and 17 year olds when their legal guardian provides a photo ID)
14. Applying for a fishing license (waived for 16 and 17 year olds when their legal guardian provides a photo ID)
15. Purchasing alcoholic beverages
16. Purchasing tobacco or products that contain nicotine
17. Purchasing a motor vehicle
18. Initial registration of a motor vehicle
19. Applying for a building permit
20. Receiving prescription medicine
21. Purchasing OTC medicine that contains pseudoephedrine
22. Serving on jury duty
23. Getting a bank account
24. Cash transactions of $5000.00 or greater
25. Sales tax exemption for people aged 80 and above

This isn't about some abstract idea that you have to strain your brain to IMAGINE. THE REAL WORLD just means what it seems to mean, the REAL WORLD. You don't even have to have an imagination for this discussion.

Go buy a six-pack of beer for a lesson in what the REAL WORLD is.
Click to expand...


Hey genius, all you did was list things you NEED an ID for...you still haven't said what "proper ID" is...care to try again?
 
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vote.gif

Al Franken beat the Republican candidate Norm Coleman and claimed the Senate seat. All it took was 341 criminals to disenfranchise an entire state.

Obama gamed the system in 2008 by not only allowing an army of young men station themselves outside polling locations in African American communities to prevent elderly women and others from voting for their chosen candidate.

The Democrat Voter Fraud Playbook is as follows:

ACORN registers the names, legitimate or not.
Black Panther, SEIU and other “community organizer” groups intimidate people, especially minorities, from voting Republican.
Voter lists remain unscrubbed of felons, dead people, and illegal immigrants.
On Election Day, precinct workers submit any unused ballots for Democrat candidates.
Democrat officials and politicians pretend like nothing happened.

It’s as easy as that to steal an election.

How Obama Used an Army of Thugs to Steal the 2008 Democratic Party Nomination
 
Oh do you have any arrest warrants? You know, for that traffic ticket fine that you couldn't afford to pay 5 years ago?

If so, you might not want to go to the DMV for an ID because you may end up spending the night in jail and some lucky public servant will get paid overtime to take you there.
 
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Is it fair that the working man or woman can't buy a six-pk of beer without showing their valid ID?

What kind of heartless society do we live in?

Can't a poor person experience just one adult beverage without being discriminated against?

All those minorities! They can't even buy one can of beer at a convenience store. WTF?
 
Muhammed said:
Oh do you have any arrest warrants? You know, for that traffic ticket fine that you couldn't afford to pay 5 years ago?

If so, you might not want to go to the DMV for an ID because you may end up spending the night in jail and some lucky public servant will get paid overtime to take you there.
Click to expand...
Huh...guess maybe you ought to pay your tickets and clear your warrant huh?
 
JasonI said:
Jack, I see you still can't answer my question about what constitutes "proper id"...not surprised...
Click to expand...
It varies, depending on what state you reside in.
 
Jack Webb said:
View attachment 67123933

Sorry, voting in a presidential election is NOT, I repeat, NOT a right.

View attachment 67123934

But, for the sake of argument, let's pretend that it is a right. Identification PREVENTS voter fraud. We all have a right to having our electoral process protected from liars and thieves. Anyone who doesn't admit this, in my opinion, is intellectually dishonest.
Click to expand...

Do you know how many times the term RIGHT TO VOTE or a variation of THE RIGHT TO VOTE is mentioned in the United States Constitution?

In the spirit of you invoking intellectual honestly, please demonstrate some and provide the statistics quantifying voter fraud convictions over the last 12 years going back to the 2000 election cycle so we can see an actual problem that does in fact exist.
 
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