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Latino voters favor Obama 6-1 over any current Republican nominee

Jredbaron96 said:
Whatever makes ya happy.
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Happy would be everyone paying for their own existence and not demanding others be forced to fund the lives of those unwilling or unable to take care of themselves
 
SypherAL said:
I want proof of this, not speculation, proof. Proof that was presented in a court of law with a judgement ruled upon.
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You mean with the current Department of Justice?
 
whysoserious said:
20 bucks says they favor Obama because he can tell the difference between chanting USA because you love your country instead of chanting it because there is a room full of Mexicans.
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20 stinking bucks?

Real men make $10,000 dollar bets.
 
cmakaioz said:
A. Pay much attention to Arizona laws over the past few years?
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Yes, I believe the people (legal citizens) of Arizona were being terrorized due to the increase of crime including murders of ranchers and border agents, kidnappings, drug smuggling, DUIs among illegal aliens. also (putting aside the other facts), illegal aliens are stealing jobs from Americans because they work for a fraction and recieving entitlements such as welfare and food stamps, medical treatment at the tax payers expense.

The Governor (sworn to protect the people of her state) had gotten no response from the Feds to secure their border so she took action to enforce stricter immigration laws such as showing proof of one's citizenship ....... and this is proof of racism because ??????????????????????????????????




B. As I'm not a "Lib" (U.S. version of liberal), this is my best guess, but the most likely reason people (liberal or otherwise) tend to consider conservative and conservative-independent leaning people more likely to subscribe to and participate in racism...is because so many conservative and conservative-independent leaning people subscribe to and participate in racism.
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Such as???????????

Example????




C. Most likely because conservatives (again, historically) put up less resistance to and hostility towards latinos in proportion to how strongly they present themselves as assimilated into "white" identity and norms.
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This is another general broad statement with no facts to back up your claim

There's an obvious theme here. MOST of the reason many people have an expectation that Republicans "don't like brown people" is because, historically, Republican policy positions have been more hostile to the interests of people of color than those of Democrats. (Note: "more hostile", not "hostile" vs. "not hostile"...Dems have plenty to answer for as well, but Dems have the luxury of winning the lesser-of-evils vote in terms of party alignment to racist oppression).
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And again this is another general broad statement with no facts to back up your claim
 
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cmakaioz said:
A. Pay much attention to Arizona laws over the past few years?
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Show me one law in Arizona that singles out Hispanics/Latino's. Of course we know that you wont and instead will just try to use false logic to describe how the law discriminates. The ONLY reason that they are saying that it is racist is because the majority of illegals in this country are Hispanics/Latino's and as such they law would affect them more which supposedly promotes racial profiling. Of course in order for this to happen is to assume that people are automatically racists against hispanic/latino's. Something which they have yet to prove.

It is not the laws/lawmakers fault that the majority of Illegals are Hispanic/Latino.

cmakaioz said:
B. As I'm not a "Lib" (U.S. version of liberal), this is my best guess, but the most likely reason people (liberal or otherwise) tend to consider conservative and conservative-independent leaning people more likely to subscribe to and participate in racism...is because so many conservative and conservative-independent leaning people subscribe to and participate in racism.
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It would be an incorrect guess. Although you are right that many "libs" would say that they do. The false cries of racism are rampant in this country. Mainly because the other side (whatever it may be) has no legitimate ground to stand on in opposition to what they don't like so try to discredit via cries of Racism!.

cmakaioz said:
C. Most likely because conservatives (again, historically) put up less resistance to and hostility towards latinos in proportion to how strongly they present themselves as assimilated into "white" identity and norms.
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Proof?

cmakaioz said:
There's an obvious theme here. MOST of the reason many people have an expectation that Republicans "don't like brown people" is because, historically, Republican policy positions have been more hostile to the interests of people of color than those of Democrats. (Note: "more hostile", not "hostile" vs. "not hostile"...Dems have plenty to answer for as well, but Dems have the luxury of winning the lesser-of-evils vote in terms of party alignment to racist oppression).
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That's the thing though, the policies set forth are not hostile towards people of color. The reason that they are viewed as such is because the majority of illegals in this country are people of color, and historically Republican's have been against illegal entry into the US, no matter the race. So in reality the party that is "more hostile historically" is actually democrats. It was Democrats that was against ending slavery, against ending miscegation laws, against ending segregation.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Show me one law in Arizona that singles out Hispanics/Latino's. Of course we know that you wont and instead will just try to use false logic to describe how the law discriminates. The ONLY reason that they are saying that it is racist is because the majority of illegals in this country are Hispanics/Latino's and as such they law would affect them more which supposedly promotes racial profiling. Of course in order for this to happen is to assume that people are automatically racists against hispanic/latino's. Something which they have yet to prove.

It is not the laws/lawmakers fault that the majority of Illegals are Hispanic/Latino.



It would be an incorrect guess. Although you are right that many "libs" would say that they do. The false cries of racism are rampant in this country. Mainly because the other side (whatever it may be) has no legitimate ground to stand on in opposition to what they don't like so try to discredit via cries of Racism!.



Proof?



That's the thing though, the policies set forth are not hostile towards people of color. The reason that they are viewed as such is because the majority of illegals in this country are people of color, and historically Republican's have been against illegal entry into the US, no matter the race. So in reality the party that is "more hostile historically" is actually democrats. It was Democrats that was against ending slavery, against ending miscegation laws, against ending segregation.
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Kal'Stang, as fellow independent (assuming that your views are in the center) are you getting sick and tired of the constant racebaiting from the Liberals?
 
Sparky said:
Kal'Stang, as fellow independent (assuming that your views are in the center) are you getting sick and tired of the constant racebaiting from the Liberals?
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Yes I am tired of the constant race baiting. Though I have never paid particularly close attention to who it came from and don't particularly care who does it, I'm just sick of it.
 
TurtleDude said:
Happy would be everyone paying for their own existence and not demanding others be forced to fund the lives of those unwilling or unable to take care of themselves
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Sounds great...(and sounds like a whole lot of capitalists would have to learn to work again)
 
cmakaioz said:
Sounds great...(and sounds like a whole lot of capitalists would have to learn to work again)
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capitalists aren't the ones demanding others be taxed more to pay for what they want
 
Sparky said:
Yes, I believe the people (legal citizens) of Arizona
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snip...

What you believe about the people of Arizona is irrelevant. You had asked about how/why many people might arrive at the impression that conservatives tend to "not like brown people", as it were, and I gave a clear answer. Whether you like the reasons involved, or consider those reasons to be valid, has no bearing on whether or not those are among the reasons.


Sparky said:
The Governor (sworn to protect the people of her state) had gotten no response from the Feds to secure their border so she took action to enforce stricter immigration laws such as showing proof of one's citizenship ....... and this is proof of racism because ??????????????????????????????????
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Because -- contrary to the rampant racism on parade with exactly that bill and its implementation -- speaking Spanish or "looking Mexican" is NOT a reliable indicator of citizenship. When LEGAL CITIZENS of Arizona who speak Spanish or who fit a general "racial" profile of "looking Mexican" are demonstrably more likely to be stopped by law enforcement personnel pursuant to that legislation, it imposes an undue, discriminatory, de facto burden upon them to carry ID at all times...which is NOT imposed upon everyone else.

If you still don't understand how that's racist, then with all due respect you're not (yet) qualified to discuss this reasonably, and you'd be better off doing some basic homework on the issue than frothing about it with holstered talking points.

Arguing that a specific incident may or may not be motivated partially by racism is one thing. Feigning complete ignorance as to how such policies may reasonably be construed as racist...is quite another.
 
TurtleDude said:
capitalists aren't the ones demanding others be taxed more to pay for what they want
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You're correct, but not in the way you likely expect.

Capitalists don't need to demand that others be taxed more to pay for what they (the capitalists) want; this is ALREADY the norm. They're already in charge.
 
cmakaioz said:
B. As I'm not a "Lib" (U.S. version of liberal)
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I would have disagree. You're anti capitalism posts and baseless claims that Conservatives are racists definitely fits those of a U.S. Liberal.
 
Sparky said:
I would have disagree.
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It's not a matter of opinion. It is a fact that both my core political principles and my specific issue-by-issue stances are incompatible with U.S. liberalism.

But of course, how could *I* possibly know the character of my own views and principles better than you could?!

Do you even read your own crap?!?

Sparky said:
You're anti capitalism posts
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See? You're already contradicting yourself! U.S. liberals are PROPONENTS of capitalism. I'm not.

Sparky said:
and baseless claims that Conservatives are racists
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I pointed out that many (not all) conservatives subscribe to and participate in racism. I never claimed all conservatives were or are racists, or that racism is necessarily coincident with conservatism.

Sparky said:
definitely fits those of a U.S. Liberal.
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This may be a shocker to you, but what constitutes a U.S. Liberal is not based unilaterally upon the basis of Because Sparky Said So.

Now go along and play.
 
TurtleDude said:
I don't find this surprising: The dems have done a good job, along with their latino allies, in convincing legal immigrants that attempts to stop illegal immigration is anti hispanic. Plus, the dems benefit from illegal voting
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If somebody is here in our country without proper documentation, they surely wouldn't expose themselves by registering and voting.
 
cmakaioz said:
snip...

What you believe about the people of Arizona is irrelevant. You had asked about how/why many people might arrive at the impression that conservatives tend to "not like brown people", as it were, and I gave a clear answer. Whether you like the reasons involved, or consider those reasons to be valid, has no bearing on whether or not those are among the reasons..
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There is nothing racist about the Arizona Law. You have NOT supported or even theorized your baseless claims that the Law is racist.


And why do you keep calling Latinos and Hispanics "BROWN PEOPLE" ? Sounds a bit derogative.



Because -- contrary to the rampant racism on parade with exactly that bill and its implementation -- speaking Spanish or "looking Mexican" is NOT a reliable indicator of citizenship. When LEGAL CITIZENS of Arizona who speak Spanish or who fit a general "racial" profile of "looking Mexican" are demonstrably more likely to be stopped by law enforcement personnel pursuant to that legislation, it imposes an undue, discriminatory, de facto burden upon them to carry ID at all times...which is NOT imposed upon everyone else.
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So what kind of descriptions should Law Enforcers be checking out when the mass majority of crimes are being commited by the Mexican Drug Cartels, people with fair skin, blond hair and blue eyes?

If all drivers (of all different races) need to provide proof of a Driver's ID while being stopped by the police, then why is it a problem with asking for a proof of citizenship?

cmakaioz said:
If you still don't understand how that's racist,.
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I don't understand how it's racist because people like you just throw out baseless claims of racism without anything to support those claims. You're just a typical race baiting Liberal throwing down the race card whenever you lose a debate.


cmakaioz said:
then with all due respect you're not (yet) qualified to discuss this reasonably,,.
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So in your typical skewed logic (like most racebaiting Liberals), I'm being unreasonably with my discussion because I use facts to support my side against your baseless claims?






and you'd be better off doing some basic homework on the issue than frothing about it with holstered talking points.
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Yes I've done my homework and the facts are the people of Arizona has been under attack with high crimes due to the Mexican Drug Cartels and you claim that Conservatives are racists simply because you say you are.

Feigning complete ignorance as to how such policies may reasonably be construed as racist...is quite another.
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The only ignorance I see on this thread is coming from people like you.
 
Kal'Stang said:
That's the thing though, the policies set forth are not hostile towards people of color. The reason that they are viewed as such is because the majority of illegals in this country are people of color, and historically Republican's have been against illegal entry into the US, no matter the race. So in reality the party that is "more hostile historically" is actually democrats. It was Democrats that was against ending slavery, against ending miscegation laws, against ending segregation.
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You are referring to Southern Dems, also known as Dixiecrats, who were the most conservative members of Dems, let alone any party....and they by and large shifted affiliation to the GOP beginning with Nixon and completed by Reagan's time.

As far as AZ, I was born and grew up there only leaving a few years ago. There had always been much discrimination against Hispanics, whether they were legal or not, it did not matter. Migrant workers have always been 2nd or 3rd class citizens even though the state agriculture businesses totally relied upon them. Currently, it has gotten to the point where Tucson schools cannot even run a Hispanic history course for middle/HS students because of the anti-Hispanic sentiments....even in the majority Dem Pima county. It was bad enough when Mecham used the "pickaninny" epithet and blocked the MLK holiday, but what is happening today in the state I still love is just sad. It breaks my heart every time I drive on I-8 into Gila Bend and see full sized billboards discrediting the President.
 
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Sparky said:
There is nothing racist about the Arizona Law.
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Didn't say it was. It's the IMPLEMENTATION of the law which is patently racist, because it leaves it up to the specific law enforcement officer to make a discretionary call on who to suspect as possibly not being in country legally, and in FACT (not opinion, but fact) law enforcement officers have the same overall social biases as those of the communities they operate in.

Sparky said:
And why do you keep calling Latinos and Hispanics "BROWN PEOPLE" ? Sounds a bit derogative.
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I don't...I was quoting. Not my fault if you can't read correctly.

Sparky said:
So what kind of descriptions should Law Enforcers be checking out when the mass majority of crimes are being commited by the Mexican Drug Cartels, people with fair skin, blond hair and blue eyes?
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Law enforcers shouldn't be profiling, period. They should base searches for suspects upon actually reported cases of suspected crimes, not upon the quite obvious racial profiling of disproportionately stopping people who speak Spanish or people who "look Mexican".

Sparky said:
If all drivers (of all different races) need to provide proof of a Driver's ID while being stopped by the police, then why is it a problem with asking for a proof of citizenship?
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Because back here in the real world, it's not the case that all drivers need to show ID. Only those pulled over by law enforcement need to do so, and law enforcers in Arizona have a demonstrated bias of disproportionately stopping people according to racial profiling.

You truly, utterly, completely don't understand this basic fact: any form of racial profiling imposes an undue burden upon perceived members of a given "race" (I say perceived because "race" is a political fiction), because even the law abiding, perfectly legal members of such a "race" are lumped in as suspect and must effectively take precautions and steps to protect themselves against unreasonable detention which people NOT in such a "race" do not (or at the very least, do not in anything close to the same proportion).

Until and unless you demonstrate a clear understanding of that fact, you're not qualified to respond rationally to this issue.

Sparky said:
I don't understand how it's racist
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Correct. You don't understand. Ad-hominems and flames on your part won't change any of that.

In the mean time, of course, you are becoming an object demonstration of exactly the kind of racist hostility and ignorance (genuine or feigned) you claimed to not see in the first place.
 
cmakaioz said:
Because -- contrary to the rampant racism on parade with exactly that bill and its implementation -- speaking Spanish or "looking Mexican" is NOT a reliable indicator of citizenship. When LEGAL CITIZENS of Arizona who speak Spanish or who fit a general "racial" profile of "looking Mexican" are demonstrably more likely to be stopped by law enforcement personnel pursuant to that legislation, it imposes an undue, discriminatory, de facto burden upon them to carry ID at all times...which is NOT imposed upon everyone else.
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Demonstrateably huh? Then surely you have proof.
 
cmakaioz said:
Didn't say it was. It's the IMPLEMENTATION of the law which is patently racist, because it leaves it up to the specific law enforcement officer to make a discretionary call on who to suspect as possibly not being in country legally, and in FACT (not opinion, but fact) law enforcement officers have the same overall social biases as those of the communities they operate in.

Law enforcers shouldn't be profiling, period. They should base searches for suspects upon actually reported cases of suspected crimes, not upon the quite obvious racial profiling of disproportionately stopping people who speak Spanish or people who "look Mexican".
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Oh so based on your skewd sense of logic, if a woman reported to the police that she's been raped by a black man and in order to catch that rapist who is still at large in that area, cops should not racial profile by being on a look out for a black man but instead conduct their investigation by questioning caucasions that have criminal backgrounds?



I don't...I was quoting. Not my fault if you can't read correctly.
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Ok so please quote some notable conservatives that refer to Latinos as brown people.


Law enforcers shouldn't be profiling, period.
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In order to catch a criminal or prevent a crime, yes they should profile.

They should base searches for suspects upon actually reported cases of suspected crimes, not upon the quite obvious racial profiling of disproportionately stopping people who speak Spanish or people who "look Mexican"..
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And that's what that law is doing. Even if someone from Mexico crossed the border and is living and working in America without legal citizenship, it is still illegal and therefore a crime.
 
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Gimmesometruth said:
You are referring to Southern Dems, also known as Dixiecrats, who were the most conservative members of Dems, let alone any party....and they by and large shifted affiliation to the GOP beginning with Nixon and completed by Reagan's time.
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Ah yes...the "shift the blame" tactic. Facts are facts. It is a fact that the Democrats of the time supported that stuff.

Gimmesometruth said:
As far as AZ, I was born and grew up there only leaving a few years ago. There had always been much discrimination against Hispanics, whether they were legal or not, it did not matter. Migrant workers have always been 2nd or 3rd class citizens even though the state agriculture businesses totally relied upon them. Currently, it has gotten to the point where Tucson schools cannot even run a Hispanic history course for middle/HS students because of the anti-Hispanic sentiments....even in the majority Dem Pima county. It was bad enough when Mecham used the "pickaninny" epithet and blocked the MLK holiday, but what is happening today in the state I still love is just sad. It breaks my heart every time I drive on I-8 into Gila Bend and see full sized billboards discrediting the President.
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Awww, poor hispanics can't have a history course dedicated to them and MLK day wasn't approved...wah. I've always considered any day month that was dedicated to any particular race to be racist in itself considering if we had a "White history" month then the cries of racism would be cried so loud that they could hear it on Pluto. Not to mention that I think that such days/months are part of the reasons that racism is still alive today. IMO ALL history should be taught with no special attention drawn to any race period.
 
TurtleDude said:
Happy would be everyone paying for their own existence and not demanding others be forced to fund the lives of those unwilling or unable to take care of themselves
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What does this have to do with Obama polling yes for 1 in 6 Latinos?
 
cmakaioz said:
Didn't say it was. It's the IMPLEMENTATION of the law which is patently racist, because it leaves it up to the specific law enforcement officer to make a discretionary call on who to suspect as possibly not being in country legally, and in FACT (not opinion, but fact) law enforcement officers have the same overall social biases as those of the communities they operate in.
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Lots of things are left up to the law enfocement officers. Doesn't mean that they racially profile.

cmakaioz said:
I don't...I was quoting. Not my fault if you can't read correctly.
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Quoting who exactly?

cmakaioz said:
Law enforcers shouldn't be profiling, period. They should base searches for suspects upon actually reported cases of suspected crimes, not upon the quite obvious racial profiling of disproportionately stopping people who speak Spanish or people who "look Mexican".
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Proof that this is actually happening please.

cmakaioz said:
Because back here in the real world, it's not the case that all drivers need to show ID. Only those pulled over by law enforcement need to do so, and law enforcers in Arizona have a demonstrated bias of disproportionately stopping people according to racial profiling.
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Again, proof please.

cmakaioz said:
You truly, utterly, completely don't understand this basic fact: any form of racial profiling imposes an undue burden upon perceived members of a given "race" (I say perceived because "race" is a political fiction), because even the law abiding, perfectly legal members of such a "race" are lumped in as suspect and must effectively take precautions and steps to protect themselves against unreasonable detention which people NOT in such a "race" do not (or at the very least, do not in anything close to the same proportion).
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Please show that racial profiling is happening.

cmakaioz said:
Until and unless you demonstrate a clear understanding of that fact, you're not qualified to respond rationally to this issue.
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What fact? So far all that you have done is say that it is a fact without providing any proof of it.
 
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