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Santorum: Forigein Relations

barbarian_style

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Not sure if this is how you would like to start out with your foreign relations but this doesn't sound positive. Santorum has talked about things without having his fact straight and seems that the dutch are displeased about his some of his comments. He has made comments on how he would take care of Iran also which I viewed as not fully discerned. I believe that Santorum could cause stress to allied relations and further deteriorate stressed relations with other countries.

Earlier this month, Santorum brought up the subject at the American Heartland Forum with conservative leader James Dobson. “They have voluntary euthanasia in the Netherlands, but half the people who are euthanized every year, and it’s 10 percent of all deaths, half of those people are euthanized involuntarily in hospitals, because they are older and sick,” Santorum said. “So elderly people in the Netherlands don’t go to the hospital. They go to another country. Because they’re afraid because of budget purposes they will not come out of that hospital if they go in with sickness.” He said the Dutch wear bracelets saying “Don’t euthanize me.”

Since then, Dutch news sources have picked up the story – and reacted with outrage. “Rick Santorum Thinks He Knows the Netherlands: Murder of the Elderly on a Grand Scale,” read a headline in the daily newspaper NRC Handelsblad.

Rick Santorum comments on euthanasia in the Netherlands cause stir in Dutch media - Political Intelligence - A national political and campaign blog from The Boston Globe - Boston.com


Rick really good for America's foreign relations with other nations?
 
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Frequently since its founding... American politicians stun Europeans.
 
I wish I understood why political figures and pundits do this kind of thing. I don't think they're stupid, because I imagine that you can't be a complete imbecile and end up on the national stage, but that leaves me with no explanation whatsoever. Does it help them politically to say something outlandish regardless of truthfulness?

Are we really that stupid, as a people?
 
I wish I understood why political figures and pundits do this kind of thing. I don't think they're stupid, because I imagine that you can't be a complete imbecile and end up on the national stage, but that leaves me with no explanation whatsoever. Does it help them politically to say something outlandish regardless of truthfulness?

Are we really that stupid, as a people?
must be a form of mental or emotional illness, this eagerness to be elected to public office that makes people say such dumb things in an effort to please them and get their votes.....
 
i think the key hear is that most Conservatives don't give a damn about foreign relations. They are convinced that contact with these foreigners can only corrupt the pureness of America. Therefore, there is absolutely nothing surprising about any of this from Santorum - nor would it be a big shock to hear it from any other candidate of the far right.

That they are arrogant buffoons goes without saying.
 
i think the key hear is that most Conservatives don't give a damn about foreign relations. They are convinced that contact with these foreigners can only corrupt the pureness of America. Therefore, there is absolutely nothing surprising about any of this from Santorum - nor would it be a big shock to hear it from any other candidate of the far right.


The Obama foreign relations strategy of making apologies has been a joke. He has accomplished nothing on the foreign stage.

We get more respect from foreign nations when we have policies coming from the likes of Bush and Cheney.
 
Once again...why don't candidates like Perry, Bachmann, Santorum, Cain, etc. do their ****ing homework before they spout BS??
 
must be a form of mental or emotional illness, this eagerness to be elected to public office that makes people say such dumb things in an effort to please them and get their votes.....

I just remembered something I read a while back, about why we end up with the Presidents we do -- we ultimately elect the candidate willing to do whatever it takes to get elected.

If we punished morons like Santorum for using lies and emotional arguments and so forth, rather than rewarding them, then none of them would do it. We continue to get it because we a nation continue to eat it up.

I guess I answered my own question. :lol:
 
i think the key hear is that most Conservatives don't give a damn about foreign relations. They are convinced that contact with these foreigners can only corrupt the pureness of America. Therefore, there is absolutely nothing surprising about any of this from Santorum - nor would it be a big shock to hear it from any other candidate of the far right.

That they are arrogant buffoons goes without saying.

**** that noise. The politicians and pundits on the right are just as bad as the politicians and pundits on the left. They lie and distort and incite and we reward them for it.
 
The Obama foreign relations strategy of making apologies has been a joke. He has accomplished nothing on the foreign stage.

We get more respect from foreign nations when we have policies coming from the likes of Bush and Cheney.

:lamo :lamo :lamo :lamo
 
The Obama foreign relations strategy of making apologies has been a joke. He has accomplished nothing on the foreign stage.

We get more respect from foreign nations when we have policies coming from the likes of Bush and Cheney.

No, we didn't.
 
Once again...why don't candidates like Perry, Bachmann, Santorum, Cain, etc. do their ****ing homework before they spout BS??

But if they did that they would lose their appeal to the vast unwashed Right. It's their very ignorance and arrogance that makes them such an attraction.
 
**** that noise. The politicians and pundits on the right are just as bad as the politicians and pundits on the left. They lie and distort and incite and we reward them for it.

Yeah, but the guys on the right have taken in to spectacularly stupid levels. This 'mass murder in the Netherlands' is just the latest example of exactly how loony the Far Right is.
 
Yeah, but the guys on the right have taken in to spectacularly stupid levels. This 'mass murder in the Netherlands' is just the latest example of exactly how loony the Far Right is.

Neither side has any more of a claim than the other to that level of BS. It is rewarded on both sides, so it's perpetrated on both sides.
 
The Obama foreign relations strategy of making apologies has been a joke. He has accomplished nothing on the foreign stage.

We get more respect from foreign nations when we have policies coming from the likes of Bush and Cheney.
What makes you think Obama's policies are any different?
 
Once again...why don't candidates like Perry, Bachmann, Santorum, Cain, etc. do their ****ing homework before they spout BS??

In 1991 the Dutch government after years of reports and allegations of involuntary euthanasia conducted it's own investigation and issued it's own report called the Remmelink Report. It confirmed that involuntary euthanasia was widely practiced by the medical profession in the Netherlands. Today reports and allegations are still common place. As any google search will confirm.

THE FACTS

The Remmelink Report– On September 10, 1991, the results of the first, official government study of the practice of Dutch euthanasia were released. The two volume report (6)–popularly referred to as the Remmelink Report (after Professor J. Remmelink, M.J., attorney general of the High Council of the Netherlands, who headed the study committee)–documents the prevalence ofinvoluntary euthanasia in Holland, as well as the fact that, to a large degree, doctors have taken over end-of-life decision making regarding euthanasia. The data indicate that, despite long-standing, court-approved euthanasia guidelines developed to protect patients, abuse has become an accepted norm. According to the Remmelink Report, in 1990:
■2,300 people died as the result of doctors killing them upon request (active, voluntary euthanasia).(7)
■400 people died as a result of doctors providing them with the means to kill themselves (physician-assisted suicide).(8)
■1,040 people (an average of 3 per day) died from involuntary euthanasia, meaning that doctors actively killed these patients without the patients’ knowledge or consent.(9) ■14% of these patients were fully competent. (10)
■72% had never given any indication that they would want their lives terminated. (11)
■In 8% of the cases, doctors performed involuntary euthanasia despite the fact that they believed alternative options were still possible. (12)

■In addition, 8,100 patients died as a result of doctors deliberately giving them overdoses of pain medication, not for the primary purpose of controlling pain, but to hasten the patient’s death. (13) In 61% of these cases (4,941 patients), the intentional overdose was given without the patient’s consent.(14)
■According to the Remmelink Report, Dutch physicians deliberately and intentionally ended the lives of 11,840 people by lethal overdoses or injections–a figure which accounts for 9.1% of the annual overall death rate of 130,000 per year. The majority of all euthanasia deaths in Holland are involuntary deaths.
■The Remmelink Report figures cited here do not include thousands of other cases, also reported in the study, in which life-sustaining treatment was withheld or withdrawn without the patient’s consent and with the intention of causing the patient’s death. (15) Nor do the figures include cases of involuntary euthanasia performed on disabled newborns, children with life-threatening conditions, or psychiatric patients. (16)
■The most frequently cited reasons given for ending the lives of patients without their knowledge or consent were: “low quality of life,” “no prospect for improvement,” and “the family couldn’t take it anymore.”(17)
■In 45% of cases involving hospitalized patients who were involuntarily euthanized, the patients’ families had no knowledge that their loved ones’ lives were deliberately terminated by doctors. (18)
■According to the 1990 census, the population of Holland is approximately 15 million. That is only half the population of California. To get some idea of how the Remmelink Report statistics would apply to the U.S., those figures would have to be multiplied 16.6 times (based on the 1990 U.S. census population of approximately 250 million).

Falsified Death Certificates —In the overwhelming majority of Dutch euthanasia cases, doctors–in order to avoid additional paperwork and scrutiny from local authorities–deliberately falsify patients’ death certificates, stating that the deaths occurred from natural causes. (19) In reference to Dutch euthanasia guidelines and the requirement that physicians report all euthanasia and assisted-suicide deaths to local prosecutors, a government health inspector recently told the New York Times: “In the end the system depends on the integrity of the physician, of what and how he reports. If the family doctor does not report a case of voluntary euthanasia or an assisted suicide, there is nothing to control.” (20)
Background about Euthanasia in The Netherlands | Patients Rights Council
 
The Obama foreign relations strategy of making apologies has been a joke. He has accomplished nothing on the foreign stage.

We get more respect from foreign nations when we have policies coming from the likes of Bush and Cheney.

you might think so, but no IMHO. Since Obama has come into power most countries respect the US a lot more than they ever did under Bush and Cheney.

Being the deaf to even the best arguments of other countries does not promote respect last time I checked.
 
In 1991 the Dutch government after years of reports and allegations of involuntary euthanasia conducted it's own investigation and issued it's own report called the Remmelink Report. It confirmed that involuntary euthanasia was widely practiced by the medical profession in the Netherlands. Today reports and allegations are still common place. As any google search will confirm.

THE FACTS

The Remmelink Report– On September 10, 1991, the results of the first, official government study of the practice of Dutch euthanasia were released. The two volume report (6)–popularly referred to as the Remmelink Report (after Professor J. Remmelink, M.J., attorney general of the High Council of the Netherlands, who headed the study committee)–documents the prevalence ofinvoluntary euthanasia in Holland, as well as the fact that, to a large degree, doctors have taken over end-of-life decision making regarding euthanasia. The data indicate that, despite long-standing, court-approved euthanasia guidelines developed to protect patients, abuse has become an accepted norm. According to the Remmelink Report, in 1990:
■2,300 people died as the result of doctors killing them upon request (active, voluntary euthanasia).(7)
■400 people died as a result of doctors providing them with the means to kill themselves (physician-assisted suicide).(8)
■1,040 people (an average of 3 per day) died from involuntary euthanasia, meaning that doctors actively killed these patients without the patients’ knowledge or consent.(9) ■14% of these patients were fully competent. (10)
■72% had never given any indication that they would want their lives terminated. (11)
■In 8% of the cases, doctors performed involuntary euthanasia despite the fact that they believed alternative options were still possible. (12)

■In addition, 8,100 patients died as a result of doctors deliberately giving them overdoses of pain medication, not for the primary purpose of controlling pain, but to hasten the patient’s death. (13) In 61% of these cases (4,941 patients), the intentional overdose was given without the patient’s consent.(14)
■According to the Remmelink Report, Dutch physicians deliberately and intentionally ended the lives of 11,840 people by lethal overdoses or injections–a figure which accounts for 9.1% of the annual overall death rate of 130,000 per year. The majority of all euthanasia deaths in Holland are involuntary deaths.
■The Remmelink Report figures cited here do not include thousands of other cases, also reported in the study, in which life-sustaining treatment was withheld or withdrawn without the patient’s consent and with the intention of causing the patient’s death. (15) Nor do the figures include cases of involuntary euthanasia performed on disabled newborns, children with life-threatening conditions, or psychiatric patients. (16)
■The most frequently cited reasons given for ending the lives of patients without their knowledge or consent were: “low quality of life,” “no prospect for improvement,” and “the family couldn’t take it anymore.”(17)
■In 45% of cases involving hospitalized patients who were involuntarily euthanized, the patients’ families had no knowledge that their loved ones’ lives were deliberately terminated by doctors. (18)
■According to the 1990 census, the population of Holland is approximately 15 million. That is only half the population of California. To get some idea of how the Remmelink Report statistics would apply to the U.S., those figures would have to be multiplied 16.6 times (based on the 1990 U.S. census population of approximately 250 million).

Falsified Death Certificates —In the overwhelming majority of Dutch euthanasia cases, doctors–in order to avoid additional paperwork and scrutiny from local authorities–deliberately falsify patients’ death certificates, stating that the deaths occurred from natural causes. (19) In reference to Dutch euthanasia guidelines and the requirement that physicians report all euthanasia and assisted-suicide deaths to local prosecutors, a government health inspector recently told the New York Times: “In the end the system depends on the integrity of the physician, of what and how he reports. If the family doctor does not report a case of voluntary euthanasia or an assisted suicide, there is nothing to control.” (20)
Background about Euthanasia in The Netherlands | Patients Rights Council

You mean totally outdated facts, since 2001 there is a euthanasia law making all these earlier reports/opinions/guesses/extrapolations based on opinion polls totally outdated and not does in no way represent the reality and the facts that are now known.
 
Neither side has any more of a claim than the other to that level of BS. It is rewarded on both sides, so it's perpetrated on both sides.

really? Which ally of the United States has Barack Obama accused of murdering its elderly citizens? I get tired of this 'both sides do it argument'. It's intellectually lazy and it isn't true.
 
really? Which ally of the United States has Barack Obama accused of murdering its elderly citizens? I get tired of this 'both sides do it argument'. It's intellectually lazy and it isn't true.

and Politifact would somewhat agree with you, on their "pants on fire" page, for the biggest whoppers of the campaign so far, 16 are from republican politicians, 2 anti Obama chain mails, 1 democratic politician and 1 anti-republican face-book story.

So of the 20 pants on fire lies, 18 are republican and 2 are democratic and the second page does not differ much from the first page. Part is ofcourse because of the republican primaries but I must say, these republican politicians have told some whoppers of lies compared to democratic politicians.
 
Why are we concerned about what is going on in Denmark anyway? Did they become the 51st State when I wasn't looking?
 
Why are we concerned about what is going on in Denmark anyway? Did they become the 51st State when I wasn't looking?

Denmark has been a solid supporter of the US in the past during missions in Yugoslavia, Kosovo, Iraq and is still one of the countries who has a militairy presence in Afghanistan. Denmark is also a member of Nato and a country that has supported the US in the war on terror. They may not be the 51st state or a country that the US needs to be concerned about but as president one has to work with it's allies.

If you have a president like Santorum that would lie and insult all kinds of allies and friends of the US than this will not help with regard to international cooperation in future missions.
 
Denmark has been a solid supporter of the US in the past during missions in Yugoslavia, Kosovo, Iraq and is still one of the countries who has a militairy presence in Afghanistan. Denmark is also a member of Nato and a country that has supported the US in the war on terror. They may not be the 51st state or a country that the US needs to be concerned about but as president one has to work with it's allies.

Peter, I'm an Isolationist. Under my philosophy there would not have been missions to Yugoslavia, Kosovo, Iraq or Afghanistan. Nor would we be a member of NATO.

If you have a president like Santorum that would lie and insult all kinds of allies and friends of the US than this will not help with regard to international cooperation in future missions.

I don't believe the US does or should have allies outside of our own borders. Nor should we have international missions to cooperate with anyone on.
 
Peter, I'm an Isolationist. Under my philosophy there would not have been missions to Yugoslavia, Kosovo, Iraq or Afghanistan. Nor would we be a member of NATO.



I don't believe the US does or should have allies outside of our own borders. Nor should we have international missions to cooperate with anyone on.

Ah, so tell me, what has isolationism accomplished in history?
 
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