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NBC GOP Debate 9pm EST - 9pm PST

Objective Voice said:
Tonight's debate just secured President Obama's re-election.
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With 10 months to go, you can claim that, because you saw one hour and forty minutes of television.
 
Zyphlin said:
And yet in a dollars sense probably pays more than most of us pay in taxes in a decade.
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You want us to feel sorry for the wealthy that make most of their income from investments???

How is paying a 14% tax rate more of a hardship than it is for the millions of the working class that pay a 23% tax rate???
 
Catawba said:
You want us to feel sorry for the wealthy that make most of their income from investments???

How is paying a 14% tax rate more of a hardship than it is for the millions of the working class that pay a 23% tax rate???
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Taxes are not supposed to be a hardship. Your 23% tax rate? Where did you pull that from? A married taxpayer, one child, earning $200,000 a year and taking a mortgage deduction of $24,000 only pays 16.6%.

Please. If you're going to discuss effective tax rates, learn about what that means. Marginal Tax Rate Calculator
 
Catawba said:
You want us to feel sorry for the wealthy that make most of their income from investments???

How is paying a 14% tax rate more of a hardship than it is for the millions of the working class that pay a 23% tax rate???
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Yeah, slight problem with your analysis there.

The problem is that those folks first paid their 37% tax rate on the money they earned that gave them the money to invest. On top of that the return on these investments from the money they invested is also taxed at the 15% rate. Generally speaking, that money they invested went to growth of some kind in the economy or in XYZ company so that Joe Blow can earn an living and pay his 23%.. Now the great thing about the system is that even Joe Blow paying his 23% can put some money aside and with less government intrusion, can eventually save enough to invest himself into a larger company, or to invest the money directly into any venture they so choose. Problem is I guess with the libbies is that when Joe Blow eventually gets to that point, he's the enemy..

Tim-
 
Catawba said:
You want us to feel sorry for the wealthy that make most of their income from investments???
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Not at all. I don't think you should feel sorry for Romney or anyone whose "wealthy" due to the fact they pay a **** ton of money into taxes. I just also don't think we should act like they somehow don't contribute anything more than then, say, a grounds keeper simply because by one metric they don't match up. If you're going to compare taxes, then I would suggest doing it honestly...looking both at percentage of income paid and at total dollars, along with other factors such as where those tax dollars are coming from (Taxed on their income, taxed on their investment returns on money they paid into businesses, etc). In no way shape or form was I suggesting you should feel sorry for Romney...I'm sorry you apparently immedietely lept to that based on your prejudiced view of consevatives. I was simply expressing my issue with the distorted message being presented by 99.

How is paying a 14% tax rate more of a hardship than it is for the millions of the working class that pay a 23% tax rate???
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Where did I say it was more of a hardship? I was just pointing out that while he pays less of his income in taxes than a lawn worker, said amount paid is SUBSTANTIALLY larger than that lawn workers so attempting to compare it JUST on percent is painting a very narrow picture.
 
Zyphlin said:
Not at all. I don't think you should feel sorry for Romney or anyone whose "wealthy" due to the fact they pay a **** ton of money into taxes. I just also don't think we should act like they somehow don't contribute anything more than then, say, a grounds keeper simply because by one metric they don't match up. If you're going to compare taxes, then I would suggest doing it honestly...looking both at percentage of income paid and at total dollars, along with other factors such as where those tax dollars are coming from (Taxed on their income, taxed on their investment returns on money they paid into businesses, etc). In no way shape or form was I suggesting you should feel sorry for Romney...I'm sorry you apparently immedietely lept to that based on your prejudiced view of consevatives. I was simply expressing my issue with the distorted message being presented by 99.



Where did I say it was more of a hardship? I was just pointing out that while he pays less of his income in taxes than a lawn worker, said amount paid is SUBSTANTIALLY larger than that lawn workers so attempting to compare it JUST on percent is painting a very narrow picture.
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How is it a narrow picture? Conservatives always call for a fairer, flatter tax. So how is it acceptable when the wealthy pay a lower rate? The lengths conservatives will go to protect the wealthy is unbelievable.
 
Buffett Blames Congress for Romney's 15% Rate - Yahoo! Finance

"He makes his money the same way I make my money," Buffett said. "He makes money by moving around big bucks, not by straining his back or going to work and cleaning toilets or whatever it may be. He makes it shoving around money."

Well said Mr. Buffett. This is why warren buffett is a patriot.
 
Zyphlin said:
Where did I say it was more of a hardship? I was just pointing out that while he pays less of his income in taxes than a lawn worker, said amount paid is SUBSTANTIALLY larger than that lawn workers so attempting to compare it JUST on percent is painting a very narrow picture.
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You are implying that he is somehow making more of a sacrifice that someone who makes $50,000 that pays a greater proportion of his income in taxes and that is BS.
 
Catawba said:
You are implying that he is somehow making more of a sacrifice that someone who makes $50,000 that pays a greater proportion of his income in taxes and that is BS.
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Why is it, "BS", exactly?

How do you define sacrifice?

Tim-
 
Hicup said:
Warren is a patriot, but Romney is a "what", exactly?


Tim-
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What's the term for someone that cares more about paying a lower tax rate personally than what is best for their fellow citizens and their country? That's what Romney is.
 
Catawba said:
What's the term for someone that cares more about paying a lower tax rate personally than what is best for their fellow citizens and their country? That's what Romney is.
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Douchebag. I wonder when romney was worried about getting a pink slip. Or when how is worrying about the 99percent.
 
Catawba said:
What's the term for someone that cares more about paying a lower tax rate personally than what is best for their fellow citizens and their country? That's what Romney is.
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Oh please...

Seriously, do all you libos have the same APP on your iPhones? You know the "tell me what to think", APP? :)

Tim-
 
Hicup said:
Why is it, "BS", exactly?

How do you define sacrifice?

Tim-
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Read the statement again, it is very clear.

Sacrifice, hardship, onerous, difficult, you pick the term. The term matters not.
 
Hicup said:
Oh please...

Seriously, do all you libos have the same APP on your iPhones? You know the "tell me what to think", APP? :)

Tim-
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Even republicans think romney is coming off as a rich douche.
 
Catawba said:
Read the statement again, it is very clear.

Sacrifice, hardship, onerous, difficult, you pick the term. The term matters not.
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And are you assuming that at all stages of Romney's or any of the 1%-er's lives that they made no sacrifice's? really, is that what your APP is telling you ATM? Get a clue, pal!

I'm one of those 1%-er's buddy, and I can tell you, I made plenty of sacrifices in my life. I also took many, many risks, so don't tell me about sacrifice!


Tim-
 
Hicup said:
And are you assuming that at all stages of Romney's or any of the 1%-er's lives that they made no sacrifice's? really, is that what your APP is telling you ATM? Get a clue, pal!

I'm one of those 1%-er's buddy, and I can tell you, I made plenty of sacrifices in my life. I also took many, many risks, so don't tell me about sacrifice!


Tim-
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You do know who romney's daddy is right?
 
99percenter said:
Even republicans think romney is coming off as a rich douche.
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I must admit I was shocked that the SC audience actually booed Romney when he stumbled over the tax question.
 
Zyphlin said:
Hey look, another person that thinks that Conservatism = Anarchism and "Cut Spending" = "No Spending".

Ron Paul had the general gist of it. There's some significant things right now that are using a huge section of the budget; trying to worry about tons of little stuff while ignoring the big things is like pissing in the wind. Entitlement programs and the Military combined account for 75% of all spending. You've got to do something about those two segments either first or in conjunction with little things like NASA, wilderness protection grants, subsidies, etc. Do those things matter and should they be looked at to find ways to reduce their cost or improve efficiency? Absolutely. However ultimately those are drops in the bucket compared to finding a way to reform and reduce the cost of entitlement sand the military.
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I agree with your latter point that we need to find ways to reduce the cost of our entitlement programs and reduce military spending, but my point here is for a political party that's so eager to cut federal spending, the policies each candidate would follow would actually increase federal spending.

Santorum = more oil subsidies and old "Cold War" spending

Romney = (I agree with him here) more spending on education, R&D, domestic energy initiatives including "Green Energy" projects

Gingrinch = more facist dictatorship from the Right, i.e., intrude on a nation's soverignty to sponsoer U.S. covert operations to once again overthrow a foreign government (Cuba). Haven't we already seen this movie before during the Kennedy Administration (Re: Bay of Pigs invasion?)? And we all know how much our last attempt at "spreading democracy" cost us.

Paul = I agree that protecting federal land (Re: FL wetlands) is important.

So, every candidate would spend more federal dollars. It's just a matter of how they'd spend the money that's key.
 
99percenter said:
You do know who romney's daddy is right?
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Is it your attention span, or are you intentionally being obtuse? What does that have to do with your claims of sacrifice? Oh, Romney's Daddy was rich? From what i understand, Romney started at the bottom of a very small investment firm. He delivered mail to the executives.. Doesn't sound like Ole Dad was very helpful, perhaps it was due to the fact that his Dad was a conservative as well? Just like my kids.. I mad ethem go out and shovel snow from driveways last weekend. Why? because they need to know how to earn their own way, and exactly how value is placed on money and hard work.


Tim-
 
Hicup said:
And are you assuming that at all stages of Romney's or any of the 1%-er's lives that they made no sacrifice's? really, is that what your APP is telling you ATM? Get a clue, pal!

I'm one of those 1%-er's buddy, and I can tell you, I made plenty of sacrifices in my life. I also took many, many risks, so don't tell me about sacrifice!


Tim-
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You missed the point. Why would an individual paying 14% of his $24 million income, represent more of a hardship than an individual paying 22% of his $50,000 income?
 
Zyphlin said:
Simply because you don't like looking at it that way doesn't make it any less valid than looking at it from a percentage stand point.
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The point concerning Mitt's income and taxes isn't the fact that he made millions or that he paid "his fair share" of taxes according to the tax laws on record. That's not it!

What most people miss is how the tenants of Conservatism and greedy capitalism are both a play where Mitt Romeny is concerned. Yes, he started (or was heavily involved in) Bain Capital, but all Bain did was "flip businesses" the way people flip houses! And he profitted from draining the liquidity from most of the businesses he took on while giving his employees of the franchises he's so proud of - The Sport's Autherity and Staples - "entry-level jobs" at low wages. Yet, he made $43 MILLION last year alone. Moreover, he invested in the two GSE's that are front and center of the housing crisis!? OMG! You couldn't have planned this any better if a Hollywood screenwriter had wrote the freakin' script!!!
 
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