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GOP 2012, Class Warrior edition

AdamT

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A study by Citizens for Tax Justice concludes that the proposed tax plans of all major GOP candidates would hugely benefit the top 1% of income earners, as opposed to the poor and middle class who would see scant gains.

The cost of the tax plans proposed by Republican presidential candidates would range from $6.6 trillion to
$18 trillion over a decade. The share of tax cuts going to the richest one percent of Americans under these
plans would range from over a third to almost half. The average tax cuts received by the richest one percent
would be up to 270 times as large as the average tax cut received by middle-income Americans.

taxplans.JPG


http://www.ctj.org/election2012/gopprimary_all.pdf
 
I doubt a graph will mean anything to anybody. We are talking about a group of people that were angry about the financial bailouts, think offshoring is killing our country, and can't stand elites....yet are voting in a Corporate Raider born into money.
 
I get back all but about $700 of what I pay into the govt. every year in taxes. Typically, that's anywhere from $1500 to $2000, depending on the year. How much more money should I get back?! Should I pay absolutely nothing in taxes because I'm in a lower bracket? How is that fair at all? I can easily afford my tax burden. That money is gone the minute my check is cut and I don't budget based on returns....so it is not harming me in any way to have that money taken from me. Reasonably, they can't take much more from me without me hitting $0, and why should they? I use services paid for or subsidized by the U.S. government, even if it's something as simple as the roads I drive on. I doubt $700 a year covers what it costs to maintain the roads I use every day.

You have to look at everything when you discuss tax cuts. Should the super super rich receive huge breaks? Nah...but if you give massive breaks to the bottom 99% you'll find that your tax revenue all but disappears. The top 1% of earners don't make enough to fund the government through 1 year of operation, so even if we took everything they made we'd still need tax money from the rest of us.
 
I get back all but about $700 of what I pay into the govt. every year in taxes. Typically, that's anywhere from $1500 to $2000, depending on the year. How much more money should I get back?! Should I pay absolutely nothing in taxes because I'm in a lower bracket? How is that fair at all? I can easily afford my tax burden. That money is gone the minute my check is cut and I don't budget based on returns....so it is not harming me in any way to have that money taken from me. Reasonably, they can't take much more from me without me hitting $0, and why should they? I use services paid for or subsidized by the U.S. government, even if it's something as simple as the roads I drive on. I doubt $700 a year covers what it costs to maintain the roads I use every day.

You have to look at everything when you discuss tax cuts. Should the super super rich receive huge breaks? Nah...but if you give massive breaks to the bottom 99% you'll find that your tax revenue all but disappears. The top 1% of earners don't make enough to fund the government through 1 year of operation, so even if we took everything they made we'd still need tax money from the rest of us.

I would argue that there should be no tax cuts. In fact, taxes should INCREASE because we obviously have a huge revenue shortfall. I would not limit the increase to the wealthy, but I think they should see a proportionately larger share because, 1) they can afford it, 2) it won't change their spending habits much, and 3) they have seen outsized gains relative to the poor and middle class over the last 30 years.

I honestly cannot understand how anyone would take these guys seriously when they complain about deficits while simultaneously proposing multi-trillion-dollar revenue cuts.
 
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I would argue that there should be no tax cuts. In fact, taxes should INCREASE because we obviously have a huge revenue shortfall. I would not limit the increase to the wealthy, but I think they should see a proportionately larger share because, 1) they can afford it, 2) it won't change their spending habits much, and 3) they have seen outsized gains relative to the poor and middle class over the last 30 years.

I honestly cannot understand how anyone would take these guys seriously when they complain about deficits while simultaneously proposing multi-trillion-dollar revenue cuts.

Tax cuts do not directly/automatically = revenue cuts. The system isn't that simple, and income/payroll taxes aren't the only ways in which governments collect money from the citizens. I don't think tax cuts in and of themselves are bad. I agree that cutting taxes before our budget/future debt control plan exists is foolish, but the fact of the matter is they will not solve our spending and debt problems by raising taxes. They may, in fact, cause more harm than good by doing so. Even the left has said as much when talking about ending the temporary SS tax cut, so this isn't some right-wing fringe ideology.

We have a spending problem. We have to fix that. We have a convoluted, disasterous tax policy. We have to fix that. Both fixes will be dependent on the other, and, again, it isn't as simple as saying "raise taxes, pay off debt". It's never GOING to be that simple.
 
Tax cuts do not directly/automatically = revenue cuts. The system isn't that simple, and income/payroll taxes aren't the only ways in which governments collect money from the citizens. I don't think tax cuts in and of themselves are bad. I agree that cutting taxes before our budget/future debt control plan exists is foolish, but the fact of the matter is they will not solve our spending and debt problems by raising taxes. They may, in fact, cause more harm than good by doing so. Even the left has said as much when talking about ending the temporary SS tax cut, so this isn't some right-wing fringe ideology.

We have a spending problem. We have to fix that. We have a convoluted, disasterous tax policy. We have to fix that. Both fixes will be dependent on the other, and, again, it isn't as simple as saying "raise taxes, pay off debt". It's never GOING to be that simple.

Right, rarely if ever does a tax increase, or cut, result in a 1:1 revenue gain or loss based upon the straight percentage of the hike/cut. But as a general rule hikes raise revenue and cuts reduce revenue. There always has to be a balance.

I don't think it would hurt the economy much to erase the top Bush tax cuts now, or better yet, do a temporary surtax on even higher income as Democrats have proposed. Bigger hikes should wait until the recovery is more solid. And ceratainly the debt problem has to be addressed from both the revenue AND spending sides. We have both revenue and spending problems.

US-Govt-quarterly-expenditures-vs-receipts-1970-thru-20101.gif
 
Right, rarely if ever does a tax increase, or cut, result in a 1:1 revenue gain or loss based upon the straight percentage of the hike/cut. But as a general rule hikes raise revenue and cuts reduce revenue. There always has to be a balance.

I don't think it would hurt the economy much to erase the top Bush tax cuts now, or better yet, do a temporary surtax on even higher income as Democrats have proposed. Bigger hikes should wait until the recovery is more solid. And ceratainly the debt problem has to be addressed from both the revenue AND spending sides. We have both revenue and spending problems.

US-Govt-quarterly-expenditures-vs-receipts-1970-thru-20101.gif

I think if we initiate an isolated tax increase there will be an effort to create uncertainty that will then plague those lower down the rungs. We will see a general "tightening of the purse strings" from those in the 99, 85, 50% classifications as they worry that the rich being required to pay more will "trickle down" to more lost jobs or wages which remain stagnant for the next several years. It will slow economic growth and stall the recession as people begin to worry that these "losses" will be passed down the line and affect the "middle class".

Whether the concerns are legitmate or fed by the uber rich trying to protect their own asses will be irrelevant. Right now, I think we need to focus on spending and debt reduction. I think we need to make sure that everything we've done is all that can be done to reduce our spending and get the government back on track to fiscal responsibility. After we've taken spending as low as we can safely take it we can discuss raising taxes, but if and only if we're seeing economic growth on par with a "healthy" or "recovering" economy. We need to stop creating policies and operating in a manner that breeds uncertainty with the largest block of consumers in the country: the middle class. That means we stop these short-term, nonsense "compromise" solutions and start creating long-term legislation, and we need to stop constantly reminding the middle class that they're under threat of extinction.

If nothing else, the struggles we face will be half procedural and half propaganda. We're reaping what we've sown with the scare tactics and fear-mongering, as well as with the partisan bickering and "down to the wire" tactics of negotiating that result in solutions that only comfort families for 8 weeks before they have to begin stressing all over again....and that's something both sides of the aisle have a hand in.

You know, people mocked Bush for going out and telling people to go shopping when the economy dipped after 9/11. But that encouragement, that "it's really okay, don't worry" mentality is probably more beneficial than constantly filling people's heads with doom and gloom and "we have to, we must, we can't sustain" demands on the shoulders of ANY tax payer. Even if it's the very, very rich, and them alone, telling the populace that we can't sustain unless we demand more from tax payers will worry people. How can you not see them talking about the top 1%, 5%, 10% of earners and not think "and what if that's not enough?".

I think we need to change the approach, in short.
 
We will see a general "tightening of the purse strings" from those in the 99, 85, 50% classifications as they worry that the rich being required to pay more will "trickle down" to more lost jobs or wages which remain stagnant for the next several years.

(picard-facepalm.jpg) I wish you were wrong.

Trickle down economics is bull****. The "job creators" are the customers, not the business owners. I hate how so many people have been duped into believing that stuff.

You're probably right that there would be an effort to create uncertainty though. Rich people really, really want you to think you are dependent upon them.

We need to do both. Cut spending where able AND increase revenues through some tax increases. A balanced approach means that neither has to be as drastic.

edit: clarification
 
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An intresting study, AdamT., and I'm more apt to lean toward advoating for a more fairminded approach than disproportionately taxing either group, but the rich should accept some responsibility for pitching in more earnestly. A seasoned football coach wouldn't expect the same output/contribution from a 9th grade Freshman as he would a three year letterman. Finding that balancing point is the challenge, so the 9th grader can move toward a sense of prosperity if you will instead of total dependence upon his upperclassmen.
 
Cutting taxes on the rich will HELP the economy, and create jobs!

No it won't! It will increase deficits without having a major impact on demand!
 
No it won't! It will increase deficits without having a major impact on demand!

15.2 trillion.... It doesn't look like taxing rich people is working.
 
15.2 trillion.... It doesn't look like taxing rich people is working.

I assume that you mean that cutting their taxes hasn't worked out very well?
 
I assume that you mean that cutting their taxes hasn't worked out very well?

No, cutting taxes on the rich help them run businesses, thus making poor people able to get jobs.
 
No, cutting taxes on the rich help them run businesses, thus making poor people able to get jobs.

Apparently it doesn't, because the only thing that's happened since Reagan slashed their taxes, and Bush slashed them again, has been stagnant income for everyone else and huge gains for them. Trickle down economics has been utterly discredited.
 
Apparently it doesn't, because the only thing that's happened since Reagan slashed their taxes, and Bush slashed them again, has been stagnant income for everyone else and huge gains for them. Trickle down economics has been utterly discredited.

That doesn't make sence. The top 1% are paying 35% income tax. That causes them to lose money of course. It's common sence.
 
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Cutting taxes on the rich will HELP the economy, and create jobs!

Yeah, just look how well that paid off with the Bush tax cuts...everything was great...for a while...
 
Yeah, just look how well that paid off with the Bush tax cuts...everything was great...for a while...

Well yeah. They didn't wreck everything overnight. Some of that 90s prosperity stuck around for a few years.
 
No, cutting taxes on the rich help them run businesses, thus making poor people able to get jobs.

Spoken like someone who has never been in charge of hiring people.

I'm not hiring right now, and it's not for a lack of money. It's for a lack of demand. Customers are the job creators.
 
No, cutting taxes on the rich help them run businesses, thus making poor people able to get jobs.

Why would you assume that cutting taxes on the rich suddenly causes them to hire more people? Businesses hire when they need more employees to do more work to fill more demand. Cutting taxes on the 1% does not do that.
 
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