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Huntsman objects to ad featuring adopted kids

I never said that it was constitutional to regulate it, under existing precedent. That's why we need a constitutional amendment to fix this enormous problem. IMO it is the biggest problem we face. "Get used to it" isn't really an option, in my opinion. We're either going to fix it or it's going to destroy this country.

Oh, stop whining. The people can handle speech. They don't need your help by banning some of it. I fear someone like you who thinks they do more than I do any nasty ads.

The First Amendment has never been amended, and it won't be now.
 
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You guys do know it was done by the Huntsman campaign? I'll find the link for you.

edit:

Huntsman Complicit in “False Flag”-Style Dirty Trick Against Paul - The End Run

That Huntsman's campaign was the first to note the video does not mean that it created the video.

Huntsman has no real incentive to go after Paul who has gained little traction in the polls. His need is to contrast himself from Romney, Santorum, and Gingrich, and gain the support of some who currently support those candidates. Huntsman cannot reasonably expect to win over Paul's supporters (highly ideological and intensely committed to Paul). He can reasonably hope to win over more pragmatic voters.
 
There is a fundamental difference though. They owned what they said. They didn't do so anonymously. ;)

Again, so what? Anonymous speech is just as much a right as any speech. Hey, you just did it.
 
Absolutely. I'm not disputing that. I'm disputing the part where he advocates overturning a fundamental Constitutional right:

Got it. Misunderstood you.

I guess, in reality, these ads are no different than unproven accusations and innuendoes that appear in The Enquirer (although they're getting better), The Star and some of the movie magazines. Ugly as it is, it's been around a long time and there's not much one can do about it other than to "punish the creator" in the realm of public opinion.

im wondering if people will read post 11. Oh well..

Actually, thanks for posting that up. You do know that was about a YouTube video, though, yes? Although they call this a false flag, they are basically saying that Huntsman made hay out of it. There's a difference.
 
Got it. Misunderstood you.

I guess, in reality, these ads are no different than unproven accusations and innuendoes that appear in The Enquirer (although they're getting better), The Star and some of the movie magazines. Ugly as it is, it's been around a long time and there's not much one can do about it other than to "punish the creator" in the realm of public opinion.

Exactly!

.........
 
Again, so what? Anonymous speech is just as much a right as any speech. Hey, you just did it.

Anonymity is not sacrosanct. If I libel someone, they can get a court order to find out who I am.
 
The article doesn't say who sponsored this ad, but it does suggest that there was no, "I am Ron Paul and I approve this ad." tagline at the end. Makes me wonder if it was some faceless entity like "Americans for Freedom Whether You Like It or Not" group. If so, this just reinforces my believe that the whole non-person entity has political free speech rights is bogus and needs to be changed. I would be perfectly fine with changing it to being that only people could do these things. Anything could still be said (short of slander/libel), but an actual living breathing person(s) would have to put their name behind it.

I just lost a ton of respect for Ron Paul. If he doesn't come out and disavow these ASAP, he's done.
 
Anonymity is not sacrosanct. If I libel someone, they can get a court order to find out who I am.

Fine. So go get a court order to find out who ran this Huntsman ad. Until then, you should probably stop complaining about anonymous speech in anonymous posts.
 
Oh, stop whining. The people can handle speech. They don't need your help by banning some of it. I fear someone like you who thinks they do more than I do any nasty ads.

The First Amendment has never been amended, and it won't be now.

I'm not whining, chief. I'm telling you that our government is rotten from the inside out and that your offhand dismissal of it is painfully naive. Do you honestly believe that multi-million dollar donors don't buy influence with their contributions? Just because the Founding Fathers did something doesn't mean that it was a great idea. George Washington owned 200 slaves. Madison, who mainly wrote the Constitution, owned close to a 100 slaves. The Constitution was never amended to abolish slavery ... until it was.
 
Fine. So go get a court order to find out who ran this Huntsman ad. Until then, you should probably stop complaining about anonymous speech in anonymous posts.

Are you telling me to stop exercising my anonymous free speech? :lol:

I kid. I get what you are saying. I just find it ironic that the "personal responsibility" ideology endorses speech that no one has to take responsibility for.
 
I'm wondering if you're expecting people to act like a story from "the end run", whose first line is whining about the "Establishment Media" , and then proceeds to quote of all websites "Infowars", while making a lot of claims based on specious evidence is some sort of gospel truth.

Fine, I'l do it myself.

User created the account the same day the video was uploaded. No other uploads.

YouTube-Profile-Page.jpg

the very first place this video was posted was Jon Huntsman’s campaign website, Jon2012.com. This was done on January 4, the very day the video was uploaded to YouTube, and before the video had received any traffic from other sites.

Jon2012-Stats-2.jpg

The tags were also a pretty clear give away. Edit: Jon2012 girl's Cain “spoof” video carries the same tag.

Tags.jpg

YouTube account NH4Santorum and uploaded the same video there, calling on viewers to vote for Santorum. NH4freedomRomney has also appeared . It too features the “China Jon” ad, and calls on viewers to vote for Mitt Romney.

Pretty bad con job if you ask me. Their is a reason the media dropped this story after awhile.
 
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I'm not whining, chief. I'm telling you that our government is rotten from the inside out and that your offhand dismissal of it is painfully naive.

I'm not dismissing it, I'm rejecting your tyrannical solution to it.

Do you honestly believe that multi-million dollar donors don't buy influence with their contributions?

Um, I thought they were anonymous.

Just because the Founding Fathers did something doesn't mean that it was a great idea. George Washington owned 200 slaves. Madison, who mainly wrote the Constitution, owned close to a 100 slaves. The Constitution was never amended to abolish slavery ... until it was.

You're right. But the thing is, slavery =/= freedom of speech. I'm thinking we need to keep that part.
 
Fine, I'l do it myself.

User created the account the same day the video was uploaded. No other uploads.

Which means.... what? It was a hit and run video?

View attachment 67120927

the very first place this video was posted was Jon Huntsman’s campaign website, Jon2012.com. This was done on January 4, the very day the video was uploaded to YouTube, and before the video had received any traffic from other sites.

Which means he has.... aides scouring the internet for any mention of Jon Huntsman's name in the media?

View attachment 67120928

The tags were also a pretty clear give away.

Of what?

View attachment 67120929

YouTube account NH4Santorum and uploaded the same video there, calling on viewers to vote for Santorum. NH4freedomRomney has also appeared . It too features the “China Jon” ad, and calls on viewers to vote for Mitt Romney.

Which means whomever did this was clearly anti-Jon Huntsman.

Pretty bad con job if you ask me. Their is a reason the media dropped this story after awhile.

It's a good thing we rely on a unbiased observer like yourself then. I mean, somebody who will type 10 posts about fainting because Ron Paul is anywhere near the lead would never ever think of attempting to discredit attack ads that would make his messiah look bad. Would they?
 
Are you telling me to stop exercising my anonymous free speech? :lol:

I kid. I get what you are saying. I just find it ironic that the "personal responsibility" ideology endorses speech that no one has to take responsibility for.

But you don't know if that ideology is the one who did this ad, because it was anonymous! (btw, ideology isn't a person either).
 
Fine, I'l do it myself.

User created the account the same day the video was uploaded. No other uploads.

View attachment 67120927

the very first place this video was posted was Jon Huntsman’s campaign website, Jon2012.com. This was done on January 4, the very day the video was uploaded to YouTube, and before the video had received any traffic from other sites.

View attachment 67120928

The tags were also a pretty clear give away. Edit: Jon2012 girl's Cain “spoof” video carries the same tag.

View attachment 67120929

YouTube account NH4Santorum and uploaded the same video there, calling on viewers to vote for Santorum. NH4freedomRomney has also appeared . It too features the “China Jon” ad, and calls on viewers to vote for Mitt Romney.

Pretty bad con job if you ask me. Their is a reason the media dropped this story after awhile.
Re-posting the same material already posted from a pro-Ron Paul site doesnt prove anything. And here is why it doesnt make sense that Huntsman created it...because all Paul had to do was publicly come out immediately and eviscerate the video creators and he looks like a hero. instead, simply disavows a connection to it and looks like a weasel. Again.

Prove that it was a Huntsman operative that created it and I and Im sure others will come out just as directly against Huntsman.
 
Fine, I'l do it myself.

Reposting the same contrieved notions and assumptions as if they're fact that your biased sited posted doens't make them any less speculative assumptions based on questionable evidence that is looked at with a biased eye.

User created the account the same day the video was uploaded. No other uploads.

Which proves...nothing other than it was a new account.

the very first place this video was posted was Jon Huntsman’s campaign website, Jon2012.com. This was done on January 4, the very day the video was uploaded to YouTube, and before the video had received any traffic from other sites.

Incorrect on multiple levels. First, the original place the video was posted was on Youtube, NOT on Huntsman site. Second, as your own link points out WAAAAAY far down the page (Gee, I wonder why), that was the first place to LINK to the video. Other sites EMBEDDED the video prior to them. Indeed, the embedding of the video onto a popular social media aggregate website occured before it was linked upon Huntsman's page.

So not only is your information there incorrect, but it is further information that in no way shows that it was a "fasle flag" perpetrated by Huntsman's campaign.

The tags were also a pretty clear give away. Edit: Jon2012 girl's Cain “spoof” video carries the same tag.

Jon2012girls is the handle that the girls hav been using on twitter and other such things. When you're including negative things about them in the ad, and hoping for people to find said ad, it would make sense to use said tag. That way as people search for that tag then your negative ad comes up.

Again, in no way shape or form proves its a "Huntsman false flag". This is precisely the point I was making with your biased piece. They took partial information, showed their clear and unquestionable bias towards Paul by refusing to put forth any attempt to be intellectually honest and look at all possible options, and immedietely proclaimed it through a massive leap based on an assumption that it was a false flag by Huntsman's people.

YouTube account NH4Santorum and uploaded the same video there, calling on viewers to vote for Santorum. NH4freedomRomney has also appeared . It too features the “China Jon” ad, and calls on viewers to vote for Mitt Romney.

Yes, note that this is pointed out as an "update" to your story. They were not put out in conjunction to the original but actually came up after the story began to spread, Ron Paul fans became upset it was being tied to them, and pieces like your biased link started suggesting it was a "false flag". This no more "proves" that it was Huntsman's people doing a false flag then it "proves" that Ron Paul's supporters created the other ones to try and frame huntsman.

Once again, you're making wild leaps based on assumptions and attempting to suggest they're some kind of proof.

Pretty bad con job if you ask me.

Yes, your attempt to paint this as a Huntsman camp false flag has been a pretty bad con job.
 
I'm not dismissing it, I'm rejecting your tyrannical solution to it.



Um, I thought they were anonymous.



You're right. But the thing is, slavery =/= freedom of speech. I'm thinking we need to keep that part.

The donors are anonymous to us -- not to the donees who of course can establish to the candidate exactly what they've donated.

I'm not sure how preventing undue influence is "tyrannical". Did we not have a democracy before Citizens United? Would we not have one man, one vote without it?
 
But you don't know if that ideology is the one who did this ad, because it was anonymous! (btw, ideology isn't a person either).

I think it's safe to assume it was some form of conservative that did this.
 
The donors are anonymous to us -- not to the donees who of course can establish to the candidate exactly what they've donated.

But anyone could just lie and say the donated when they didn't, so the candidates can't trust that.

I'm not sure how preventing undue influence is "tyrannical".

Banning speech is tyrannical.

Did we not have a democracy before Citizens United?

Since CU only overturned a law passed in 2003, that's an easy answer.

Would we not have one man, one vote without it?

We have one man, one vote now.
 
im wondering if people will read post 11. Oh well..

Is that the one with a link to a random blog making undocumented claims?
 
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