• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Mitt Romeny is NOT CONSERVATIVE

I suggest you get started then. What are you doing to fix the problem? Other than typing on an internet chat board.

Maling/hoarding ammunition and weapons for one thing. For another being vocal about refusing to buy into the disgusting filthy cesspool of a society that currently exists here in america so that others know what's wrong around here. Refusing to vote for anyone who does not exemplify (in both word AND deed) the calues and morals which this country should exhibit.
 
The issue being that often when Reagan compromised it was clear through his rhetoric at the time, and other action at the time, that it was just that...COMPROMISE. It was not actually what he wanted or believed in. Did he sign tax increases? Yes. While ALSO significantly lowering taxes and and campaigning with rhetoric suggesting that his actual ideology said by and large lowering was better. On guns, gun control was less tight at that point then points earlier. Additionally, not adding further gun control is in and of itself at the very least moderate and possibly conservative if nothing was added because he fought things that were attmepted. Finally, again, rhetoric at the time at least presented a view that he would fight against attempts to broaden gun control.

This is the stark difference between Reagan and Romney in regards to this. Both had to compromise to a certian degree due to the situation they were in, Reagan with a Democratic controlled congress at a time where that was the absolute norm and Romney having to deal with Massachusetts and a largely liberal leaning legislature and constituency. However, in the case of Reagan, his rhetoric throughout his Presidency made it clear what his principles and views was making it clear his compromises were just that...COMPROMISES. Not simply instances where he actually agreed with what the compromise was. He also did a significantly amount of Conservative things, more so than would've rightly been expected with such a congress, that helped bolster that notion. And through it all Reagan fiercely grasped onto Conservatism as something that was good, not to be shunned. Romney's rhetoric, on the other hand, made it appear that his compromises were actually places where he AGREED with the other side and felt the way they did, and thus was going along with what they were doing. His record had far less conservative victories to hang his hat on. Unlike Reagan, Romney did not embrace conservatism but shunned it publicly.

I'm actually getting frankly tired with Liberals having the ego and audacity to tell US what we must think Reagan has. Especially when they do so in such a lazy, intellectually dishonest, and ridiculous way that shows it is nothing but a partisan prod than any kind of legitimate argument.

I was using his definition and highlighting the problem with it. I was not calling Reagan a liberal. Calm down.
 
I was using his definition and highlighting the problem with it. I was not calling Reagan a liberal. Calm down.

Sorry, there's been a handful of posts...most of them the far more hyper partisan types then you...routinely making broad claims about how conservatives would find Reagan liberal now, reagan's a liberal, reagan would be a liberal in modern times, etc lately and it's a non-sensical argument that's begun to wear on me.
 
Sorry, there's been a handful of posts...most of them the far more hyper partisan types then you...routinely making broad claims about how conservatives would find Reagan liberal now, reagan's a liberal, reagan would be a liberal in modern times, etc lately and it's a non-sensical argument that's begun to wear on me.

There is some truth to all that, but to say Reagan was a liberal is taking the point too far. He would be seen(without the name involved, only going by record) as a wishy washy comnservative or RINO by the far end of your party. Reagan was willing to compromise, something the Bachmann wing is much les willing to do.
 
Maling/hoarding ammunition and weapons for one thing. For another being vocal about refusing to buy into the disgusting filthy cesspool of a society that currently exists here in america so that others know what's wrong around here. Refusing to vote for anyone who does not exemplify (in both word AND deed) the calues and morals which this country should exhibit.

And that fixes the problem how?
 
Conservative simply means resistant to change. IT doesn't mean "Good".

Liberal simply means change. IT doesn't mean "Bad".

Try again...from Websters:

Definition of CONSERVATIVE
1
: preservative
2
a : of or relating to a philosophy of conservatism b capitalized : of or constituting a political party professing the principles of conservatism: as (1) : of or constituting a party of the United Kingdom advocating support of established institutions (2) : progressive conservative
3
a : tending or disposed to maintain existing views, conditions, or institutions : traditional b : marked by moderation or caution <a conservative estimate> c : marked by or relating to traditional norms of taste, elegance, style, or manners
4
: of, relating to, or practicing Conservative Judaism
 
Try again...from Websters:

Definition of CONSERVATIVE
1
: preservative
2
a : of or relating to a philosophy of conservatism b capitalized : of or constituting a political party professing the principles of conservatism: as (1) : of or constituting a party of the United Kingdom advocating support of established institutions (2) : progressive conservative
3
a : tending or disposed to maintain existing views, conditions, or institutions : traditional b : marked by moderation or caution <a conservative estimate> c : marked by or relating to traditional norms of taste, elegance, style, or manners
4
: of, relating to, or practicing Conservative Judaism

Radical Muslims maintain their existing view, condistions, and institution. So therefore they are conservative. You want to lump yourself in with them by name only be my guest :)
 
Radical Muslims maintain their existing view, condistions, and institution. So therefore they are conservative. You want to lump yourself in with them by name only be my guest :)

Only a liberal would think like that.
 
There is some truth to all that, but to say Reagan was a liberal is taking the point too far. He would be seen(without the name involved, only going by record) as a wishy washy comnservative or RINO by the far end of your party. Reagan was willing to compromise, something the Bachmann wing is much les willing to do.

Only if one also, while removing the name, attempted to present his record without any other context. I would imagine similar issues would come if we went and presented people with Kennedy's record, or people in the 1800's record.

Time period and context play into things. Reagan came into power during a time where full Democratic control of the Congress was the norm, a split congress the rarer exception, and a fully republican controlled congress a thing of myth and legend akin to unicorns and under 6' WWF Champions. We were coming out of a huge troubled economic time period and was in the midst of a troubling national defense period iwth regards to the Russians. To speculate that someone like Bachmann would be equally unwilling to compromise then as she is now, or to suggest Reagan would be as likely to compromise now as he was then, is baseless. Is it likely to go extremely the other way? No, to a point people are made up a certain way and always will be. However, 1994 with the Republicans taking the house...a number of years with a fully Republican controlled congress...these things have shifted the way both sides, to a point, view government and compromise. The Democratic Party grasp on Congress, and the house specifically, has been shattered and the notion that either side can gain control is not firmly implanted in minds. Meaning the notion of "we gotta compromise if we ever want to do anything" loses some of its steam and power because there's now a legitimate reason to think they may have a chance to get their side in power and not have to compromise as much. Such an expectation wasn't normal under Reagan.

1953 was the last time pre-reagan that Democrats didn't control at least one of the houses (Republicans actually had both). Indeed...from 1930 to 1980, a fifty year stretch leading up to Reagan, Republicans had control of a house of congress only 3 times (all three times, they held both). 1931, 1947, and 1953. From 1981 on, things have shifted. It began during Reagan's time, when Republicans at least kept one portion of Congress (The Senate) for 6 years in the 80's. It shifted again in 1995 when Republicans gained controll of both houses for the first time since 1953. Since then, 14 of of the 16 years Republicans have had control of at least one house, having full control one more time during that period.

50 years leading into Reagan, Republicans had control of at least one house 3 times
30 years since Reagan, Republicans have had control of at least one house 11 times

Reagan existed in a different era, where politics had a little bit of a different mentality. Attempting to place his record in the modern day and acting like they could in any way be an equivilent is misleading at best, ridiculous at worst. Yes, Reagan may...at best...look moderate today if we took his policies, out of context, and placed them in the modern day. Though to even say that, and even then it'd be debatable, we'd also need to just take GENERIC statements of his policies. IE, someone stating to reduce the Top Tax Bracket by 60% today would HARDLY be someone likely called a "moderate" and would likely be called a "radical right winger" by many. That's part of the issue with ignoring the context of WHEN Reagan was President.
 
Zyphlin, I am not arguing any of that. Yes, it would be without context. Yes, it would be without reference to the time period. That is actually in part the point. Liberal and conservative positions do change over time. Hell, when the republican party formed, it was the radical party.
 
It is. But as long as a few of my fellow conservatives can draw the distinction, and will take that knowledge with them to the primaries, then I've accomplished what I want to accomplish with this thread.

Perhaps that means that every other Republican in the field is not a mainstream conservative, but an EXTREME conservative. See, it's all relative.
 
Well, it is hard to say what Romney's real beliefs are, because he may have lied before becoming governor in Massachusetts as well.

It doesn't really matter. I will never support a candidate who has no integrity or trust. Obama is terrible, but still better than Romney.
 
Good: nothing wrong with being a moderate!

Oh my god - just imagine the horror :roll: Someone who doesn't ply to the extremes but can be found in the middle ground.

:rofl

GOP voters don't like moderates. Santorum knows that, which is why he's in NH bashing gays left and right.
 
GOP voters don't like moderates. Santorum knows that, which is why he's in NH bashing gays left and right.

As he should be. There is very little chance that Santorum will win anything in New Hampshire. Too many Libertarian types up there. However, so long as he doesn't finish in the bottom half of the field, he should be able to carry on to South Carolina where he will likely do much better.
 
Back
Top Bottom