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Ron Paul's Foul Old Newsletters Back in the News

Look people... Ron Paul at the very least, panders to white supremacists and racist organizations/groups. At worse, he is a racist... There is simply no denying it.

Therefore, there is no way in hell I could ever support the man and can't for the life of me understand how anyone who claims to be non-racist would.
 
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Paul is a RINO, not a republican. watch him be the bitter little boy who takes his bat and ball home and run as an Independent when he does not fare well anywhere other than Iowa. He will be the single factor in Obama being re-elected because he will split the vote. He is a nasty Troll.

That should be our Christmas wish come true in 2012.
 
Look people... Ron Paul at the very least, panders to white supremacists and racist organizations/groups. At worse, he is a racist... There is simply no denying it.

Therefore, there is no way in hell I could ever support the man and can't for the life of me understand how anyone who claims to be non-racist would.

Giving people the freedom to be racist is not an equivalent to supporting racism or pandering to those people. Unless he specifically supports racism, he's giving those people just as much opportunity to not be racist.

We have two avenues: Allow people to make choices knowing that some will make bad choices OR make choices for the people based on what we believe to be 'right'. Racism is a little more, shall we say, black and white in terms of right and wrong. But in order to legislate it, we still have to choose the wrong avenue.
 
Paul likes to label himself as a "constitutionalist." However, Paul's ideology is vastly different from what the Founders had in mind when devising the Constitution given the existence of their writings e.g., the Federalist papers. Indeed, Paul's ideology would amplify the concerns raised by Tocqueville that the American form of government might yet result in a "tyranny of the majority."

A cursory glance at America history will demonstrate that the Founders possessed a myriad of political views. To claim that they all had a universal view that is antithetical to Ron Paul's point of view is a misnomer, to say the least. Also, the Federalists papers were not the only influential source in writing the Constitution. If they were, then we would not have a Bill of Rights. In addition, Tocqueville was not a Founding Father, so your appeal to him is most peculiar as is your appeal to Hamilton and Madison in regards to civil liberties.

In sum, civil rights were conceived as a basic obligation of government by the United States' Founders. The Civil Rights laws were necessary to fulfill that obligation. Furthermore, Paul's interpretation of the Constitution is his own opinion. That opinion differs quite markedly from the opinions expressed by those who drafted the Constitution and argued for its adoption.

If civil rights, such as the Civil Rights Acts, were such a central tenant to Constitution, then why was slavery legal? Or do you really believe that a person who owned slaves all his life (i.e. James Madison) and who wouldn't even free them upon his death has a leg to stand upon when discussing civil rights?
 
The purpose of the constitution is to limit the size of the federal government (obvious). The bargaining power of the people which you so clearly laid out is exactly what Ron Paul and libertarians ARE trying to protect. I often hear these well laid out arguments and feel like we're on the same side; that we have the same intents. It's how we achieve those intents that we differ so much.

Unless the powers are written into the constitution, the powers lie with the people and the state. It's within the state and local government that the bargaining power of each individual is the greatest. Where inevitable factions that do occur at ALL levels of government will have the least impact. We are in the greatest danger when these factions have absolute power over the entire national government. So even when a 'good' faction of eliminating racism controls the national government, I have to fight it. Because if/when the tide turns to a more negative outcome, I don't want the national government to have so much power.

I want to avoid the tyranny of the majority as do you. But it will and does happen. I'd prefer it to happen at the state level than the federal level, however, where it can be more easily over-turned. All of this being said, I've always been on the line when it comes to Civil Rights Laws at the national level. The only reason that I tend to push it towards the states is to prevent the slide down the slippery slope. But I do fear what could happen in some states...

You apparently are unaware of the part of the Constitution called "The Bill or Rights" - something Ron Paul's position is that the federal government should not enforce.

The foremost purpose of the Constitution was to establish a federal government authority - obviousy. Without it there would be no centralized government. It then goes on to also establish a Bill Of Rights each citizen has as a citizen of THE FEDERAL NATIONAL government, not the states.

Those two most obvious fundamental truisms about the constitution are lost to many Ron Paul supporters. It is the task of the FEDERAL government under THE FEDERAL BILL OF RIGHTS to protect those rights as a FEDERAL duty.

So when Ron Paul and his supporters come up with all manners of twisted logic in their pursuit of a return to racial segregation and discrimination in housing, employment and voting, what they are declaring is that they want the Confederacy in which FEDERAL constitutional authority and FEDERAL guarenteed RIGHTS under the FEDERAL BILL OF RIGHTS are placed either subserviant to each state or totally nullified by abolishing all federal enforcement and protection methods of those same CONSTITUTIONALLY guarenteed rights.

Historically, state and local governments have been far more tyannical and oppressive against individual rights because it takes much less to establish a majority to take control of government. That, too, is obvious enough to understand. If a community only had 3 voters, 2 of them could essentially do and deny anything to the other 1 with all the power of goverment. However, if there are 1000 people, those 2 have no real power to use government against that same 1 person.

"Small government" and "small population government" aren't the same at all. The more people the harder it is to single out someone or a group as targets.

As example for conservatives and liberals. Would you want San Francisco's city council's wishes to replace the federal bill of rights in relation to you?

There also are massive commerce issues with replacing a federalized system of government with a confederacy or collection of independent states. Independent government entities attempting to act in harmony as a collective isn't working out to well for the EU - yet that system - only with 3 times as many final governing bodies (50 days) is really whatRon Paul advocates.

I do have presume that Ron Paul is a full supporter of the European countries forming a collective unity as a confederacy of independent nations, as that is what he wants the 50 states of the USA to be in effect.
 
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Look people... Ron Paul at the very least, panders to white supremacists and racist organizations/groups. At worse, he is a racist... There is simply no denying it.

Therefore, there is no way in hell I could ever support the man and can't for the life of me understand how anyone who claims to be non-racist would.

The 10,000 words Paul and his supporters have to talk around what you said doesn't change anything. With rare exception in terms of some supporters, you are exactly correct.

On 2008 and 2012, Paul supporters will continually see as top topics the elimination of the voting rights act, civil rights act and in every extrapolation they can find they will explain why they want discrimination and segregation in employment, housing, services, commerce and voting restored, plus heavy doses of attacks against Israel and Jews.

None of those are even the most remote topics for ANY other candidate or their supporters - not Republican, not Democrat and not independent. That does tell the story and the core undercurrent of his campaign.
 
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You apparently are unaware of the part of the Constitution called "The Bill or Rights" - something Ron Paul's position is that the federal government should not enforce.

Ron Paul is right, the federal government shouldn't enforce the bill of rights because the Bill of Rights is a protection against an all too powerful government. It was the main point of the Anti-Federalists. After all, we just fought a Revolutionary War against a strong national government and were hesitant to hand over those hard fought rights to a newly established national government. It was actually the Federalists, like Hamilton, who saw a Bill of Rights as dangerous.

While you may see the government as "enforcing" rights, such as freedom of speech, the right to bear arms, the right to due process, etc, the Bill of Rights actually protects citizens from a government infringing upon those rights.


So when Ron Paul and his supporters come up with all manners of twisted logic in their pursuit of a return to racial segregation and discrimination in housing, employment and voting, what they are declaring is that they want the Confederacy in which FEDERAL constitutional authority and FEDERAL guarenteed RIGHTS under the FEDERAL BILL OF RIGHTS are placed either subserviant to each state or totally nullified by abolishing all federal enforcement and protection methods of those same CONSTITUTIONALLY guarenteed rights.

I support Paul and don't want to see an increase in segregation and discrimination. However, you speak of "returning" to it segregation and discrimination, which implies that is has been eliminated. This is outright dishonest.

I personally have no desire to see to see the CRA or the voting rights act overturned. I think libertarians are making a mistake about bringing this up up ideological grounds since it is irrelevant. Nor am I sold on the idea that free markets can solve racism. I am telling you this to demonstrate that you can support a candidate and not march in lock step.

Plus, for all your criticism about racism and segregation, you forgot to point out how all these libertarian racists want to end America's most racist institution: The War on Drugs. It ironic how you and many paint out libertarians to be closet racists, when in fact they are the most ardent supporters of abolishing one of America's most racist institutions while the status quo politicians want to preserves it.
 
Paul is a RINO, not a republican.

watch him be the bitter little boy who takes his bat and ball home and run as an Independent when he does not fare well anywhere other than Iowa.

He will be the single factor in Obama being re-elected because he will split the vote. He is a nasty Troll.
I'll take a true conservative over a true republican, Thanks.

Shot in the dark; if he does (which he has stated he has no plans to do) I'd give him my vote, at some time you have to vote for the candidate you identify most with, not the party's pick for best representative or most electable.

Again, Shot in the dark.
 
The thread title uses the word 'news' loosely.
 
A cursory glance at America history will demonstrate that the Founders possessed a myriad of political views. To claim that they all had a universal view that is antithetical to Ron Paul's point of view is a misnomer, to say the least. Also, the Federalists papers were not the only influential source in writing the Constitution. If they were, then we would not have a Bill of Rights. In addition, Tocqueville was not a Founding Father, so your appeal to him is most peculiar as is your appeal to Hamilton and Madison in regards to civil liberties.

Of course, the Founders had a multiplicity of opinions. Nonetheless, there was sufficient consensus to draft the Constitution. The Federalist Papers are also the best source of information as to the original intent of those who drafted the Constitution, even as only a subset made the arguments for the Constitution's ratification.

Tocqueville was a French citizen. He visited the U.S. and made observations, one of which touched on an area addressed by the authors of the Federalist Papers, specifically the dangers of the majority. That's the relevance. There is no "appeal" to him as a Founder.

Where there is common view among those who drafted the Federalist Papers and also Tocqueville is the risk associated with power being concentrated in the hands of the majority (among other aspects of concentrated power). It is that reason that civil rights, even as the specific substance might have differed in the late 18th century, were put on equal footing with religious rights. On that aspect, Ron Paul's ideology is inconsistent with the views expressed by the authors of the Federalist Papers who offer the most authoritative account on the original intent of the Constitution's framers. The former would accept the federal government's acting to protect those rights. Paul would not.


If civil rights, such as the Civil Rights Acts, were such a central tenant to Constitution, then why was slavery legal? Or do you really believe that a person who owned slaves all his life (i.e. James Madison) and who wouldn't even free them upon his death has a leg to stand upon when discussing civil rights?[/QUOTE]
 
Whenever I hear "states rights" the strains of Dixie are not far behind with a little Jim Crow thrown into the mix.

Paul was a bit stupid not to think up a more coherent and consistent story when questioned by the press about his newsletter. After all, he's had years.
 
Actually I believe Tocqueville had extremely good future vision. However, for Paul to assert than Tocqueville proves that 50 governments (states) or 10,000 governments (local) is just junk. At the time of Tocqueville, states has essentially all power and the feds had essentially none.
His core premise was that a majority can be oppressive. Thus, fundamental protection from the majority a necessity - such as THE CIVIL RIGHTS ACT and VOTING RIGHTS ACT - both that Paul has always deeply opposed.
Tocqueville is exactly the wrong source for Rep. Ron Paul to cite.

Of course, the Founders had a multiplicity of opinions. Nonetheless, there was sufficient consensus to draft the Constitution. The Federalist Papers are also the best source of information as to the original intent of those who drafted the Constitution, even as only a subset made the arguments for the Constitution's ratification.

Tocqueville was a French citizen. He visited the U.S. and made observations, one of which touched on an area addressed by the authors of the Federalist Papers, specifically the dangers of the majority. That's the relevance. There is no "appeal" to him as a Founder.

Where there is common view among those who drafted the Federalist Papers and also Tocqueville is the risk associated with power being concentrated in the hands of the majority (among other aspects of concentrated power). It is that reason that civil rights, even as the specific substance might have differed in the late 18th century, were put on equal footing with religious rights. On that aspect, Ron Paul's ideology is inconsistent with the views expressed by the authors of the Federalist Papers who offer the most authoritative account on the original intent of the Constitution's framers. The former would accept the federal government's acting to protect those rights. Paul would not.


If civil rights, such as the Civil Rights Acts, were such a central tenant to Constitution, then why was slavery legal? Or do you really believe that a person who owned slaves all his life (i.e. James Madison) and who wouldn't even free them upon his death has a leg to stand upon when discussing civil rights?
[/QUOTE]
 
Many Paul supporters go to the most extreme contortions to explain why they want to return to legalizing denying housing, food, voting and employment to African-Americans. What they are defending is white-only restrooms, white-only restaurants, white-only neighborhoods and white-only employment lines of a white-only government.

All of them forced upon people by their government. I get your concern, but the fact is that we just haven't had a situation where there was not a government hand forcing the issue. You cannot say that we will "return" to anything because Paul would only repeal the laws forcing governments not to discriminate, not re-institute the ones that forced them to discriminate. People are more evolved now so basically any business that actually tries to pull that on their own will get driven out of town.
 
First Cain and now Paul!

Both candidates must have known that these issues (sexual harrassment settlements, racist comments in past newsletters) would eventually surface, if the polls showed that their campaigns were generating some serious support.

And yet, both appeared totally unprepared to deal with these issues.
 
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All of them forced upon people by their government. I get your concern, but the fact is that we just haven't had a situation where there was not a government hand forcing the issue. You cannot say that we will "return" to anything because Paul would only repeal the laws forcing governments not to discriminate, not re-institute the ones that forced them to discriminate. People are more evolved now so basically any business that actually tries to pull that on their own will get driven out of town.


Countrywide discriminate for years without consequences, if there's no law on the book penalising what they did, they would not have to pay for the discrimination that boosted their profits during the boom years. Maybe the businesses that discriminate will eventually close down one way or another by market forces, but only after years, and after many people are hurt. That's the problem with market theory, if you put it into practice, actual people have to get hurt before you see a correction, and the people hurt are not always through faults of their own - not understanding mortgage rules may be a mark against these people in economics theory, for being uninformed consumers - but in our society, we don't penalise that, nor should we allow it to occur without trying to stop it first.
 
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FOX and MSNBC generally not only do not agree on anything. Both have exactly opposite vehemently opposite partisan stances on issues and politicians, one thing they now do agree on: Ron Paul sucks.

Last night, Rachael Maddow spend a quarter of her hour on the topic of Ron Paul's newsletters, while FOX scrolled a LONG statement about the newsletters continuously across the bottom of the screen.

Apparently Ron Paul and his supporters whining of Ron Paul being ignored isn't the case at this moment. Instead, he is the subject of scrutiny by both political cable networks.

The reality of those newsletters combined with his votes on Rosa Parks and MLK Jr, plus is oft stated opposition to the Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights Act - running against an African-American president - would come across as some ancient old Confederate bigot against the young African-American as a racist campaign.

Believe Ron Paul was/is a racist or not, that would be the public perception - meaning Obama wins by a landslide and either Republicans for Congress disavow Paul or the Democrats take control of the House and Senate possibly my wide margins.
 
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Whenever I hear "states rights" the strains of Dixie are not far behind with a little Jim Crow thrown into the mix.

Paul was a bit stupid not to think up a more coherent and consistent story when questioned by the press about his newsletter. After all, he's had years.
What a silly generalization.

His explanation might not be sufficient enough to earn your acceptance, but He's been nothing but consistent at least according to my knowledge, but If you have evidence that proves otherwise then by all means elaborate.
 
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What a silly generalization.

His explanation might not be sufficient enough to earn your acceptance, but He's been nothing but consistent at least according to my knowledge, but If you have evidence that proves otherwise then by all means elaborate.

In the 1990s to the Dallas Morning News, then a very Republican and then seemingly friendly newspaper, Ron Paul acknowledged the newsletter and claimed the thrust of them was accurate. He did not deny the statements but instead defended them as accurate.

Over time he shifted to only claiming he never read it. Now it has become he never saw the newsletters - published for years and including during his election campaign - nor does he have any idea of anyone who wrote or published the newsletter.

[video]http://video.ca.msn.com/watch/video/racism-charge-haunts-ron-paul/17yyfrlxq?from=[/video]

He told CNN now that he doesn't know what happened to the over $1 million raised by the newsletter in just one year.
 
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Not one person looking at this legitimately believe Ron Paul claiming he can not remember the name of the publisher or anyone else involved with the newsletter. This is, bluntly, obviously a lie. Yet that attempt at blocking and covering up actually any exploration of his claim isn't the point - other than I suppose he wouldn't remember anyone else writing it if he wrote it himself, would he? That is the most rational explanation. But this is the real problem with it. The problem is political reality against an African-American president.

Given that Democrat President Obama is an African-American, if Republicans have a candidate that published in his own name the most horrific racist materials from claiming that 95% of African-Americans are criminals to instructions how to kill them and get away with kiling African-Americans, called "animals"...
THAT adds to Ron Paul's opposition to the MLK Jr holiday, opposition a medal for Rosa Parks, opposition to the Civil Rights Act, opposition to the Voting Rights Act, declaring Abraham Lincoln was one of the worst villians in USA history etc, etc, etc...
by some ancient old white Southerner would be perceived as an outright extreme racist campaign in 100 years in the USA.

If the 1 in 1000 happened and Ron Paul got the nomination, most Republicans in any leadership position would not simply disregard him as now, they would openly disavow and condemn him minimally to try to minimize Republican loses at the Congressional, state and local level. They also would take a Ron Paul run as an independent - worsening the almost already impossible chance to beat Obama anyway - also to try to save other Republicans in their elections.

That's the obvious reality, like Ron Paul or not. And Ron Paul supporters on average to not care about any other elective positions whatsoever. Ron Paul is their savior for which they invision Emperor Paul and no President Paul, all other offices and elected officials are irrelevant.
 
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How did he vote against MLK day when he voted for it? GovTrack: House Vote #624 (Dec 5, 1979) and also express how MLK was one of his heroes in the past? (Newt voted against it, Racist!!!!! j/k)

The worst that can be said is he was negligible and irresponsible as a publisher. He had to many things on his plate being a doctor, traveling across the country making speeches, having a multitude of other publications, writing, and helping other campaigns. Paul said he disavowed and doesn't believe what it wrote. Lots of his stances/actions make that case. I think it is obvious he didn't write them, not a racist, but did a bad job in managing that area.
 
And that move by FDR was perhaps the single worst thing he did in his twelve years as US President. It is a terrible negative mark on his otherwise stellar record and there is no decent excuse to be offered for it.

I would however refrain from the temptation of engage in hyperbolic exaggeration by calling it a return to slavery. It was not that. It was the forced imprisonment of people who had committed no crime and a denial of basic rights and due process. That cannot be minimized nor should it.

Of course, the attempt to pack the Supreme Court was perfectly ok with you because he would have been able to get his radical economic program through the Court's objections through it...
 
How did he vote against MLK day when he voted for it? GovTrack: House Vote #624 (Dec 5, 1979) and also express how MLK was one of his heroes in the past? (Newt voted against it, Racist!!!!! j/k)

The worst that can be said is he was negligible and irresponsible as a publisher. He had to many things on his plate being a doctor, traveling across the country making speeches, having a multitude of other publications, writing, and helping other campaigns. Paul said he disavowed and doesn't believe what it wrote. Lots of his stances/actions make that case. I think it is obvious he didn't write them, not a racist, but did a bad job in managing that area.

NICE TRY!
Ron Paul voted YES in 1979, then turned around and voted NO against the MLK Jr holiday in 1983. What is most relevant then is that his final vote was AGAINST the MLK Jr holiday, a position he has never retracted.
My source is EXACTLY the same as yours.
GovTrack: House Vote #289 (Aug 2, 1983)
GovTrack: House Vote #289 (Aug 2, 1983)

So... will you acknowledge I am correct? Or just change topics or explain why he should have voted no?

If he couldn't manage or ever read his own political newsletter back then, how could he possible manage the vastly greater diverse tasks as president?

By his own explanation of not being able to remember even just one person in anyway affiliated with his own ONLY political newsletter for many years, Ron Paul HAS now ADMITTED that in his old age his memory is failing - as his BEST excuse. He is REALLY old. A president has to manage multiple tasks and needs at least a normal level of memory.
 
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Correction. He voted on two bills to make it a legal holiday. One I have up top and this one GovTrack: House Vote #625 (Dec 5, 1979)

He voted yes to making the third sunday on january the legal holiday and not on his bday.

From digging through the subject. The bill didn't pass senate.

The one in 1983 he voted no based on amending Title 5 of the US Code (which related to federal holidays). The one in 1979 didn't amend the US Code while the one in 1983 did.
 
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Considering the voting block that Ron Paul has hitched his wagon to, his alleged comments will most likely win him more votes than they will lose.
 
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