• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Romney involved in $8.5 billion Ponzi scheme

nonpareil said:
Guilt by association is not a valid arguement. If his son conducted the Ponzi Schemem himself, it still doesn't mean Romney has done anything wrong.
Click to expand...


Romney and his son both made money of this scheme which they helped finance. And as for guilt by association, republicans tried to tie Barack Obama to people he hardly knew. Thats guilt by association.
 
1Perry said:
Accusations were made about Obama's citizenship also. Accusations were made about Cain. They were accusations have been argued and decided that they do not disqualify one from being president.
Click to expand...

Obama did not deny that anyone questioned his citizenship. He said that the claim was BS and he provided not one but two birth certificates to prove that it was BS.

This is about Cain's reaction to the story -- not the story itself. First he claimed he didn't know that there was a settlement with his accusers, which is hard to believe. Then he changed his story and said that he did know something about the settlement, but didn't know what the terms were. If he wanted to he could waive the confidentiality agreement and let the accusers tell their side of the story....
 
tessaesque said:
He'd just be following the media's general example...
Click to expand...

I bet he isn't concerned about former Dem Senator and governor Corzine engineering a 41 Billion (and counting) bankruptcy
 
99percenter said:
Romney and his son both made money of this scheme which they helped finance. And as for guilt by association, republicans tried to tie Barack Obama to people he hardly knew. Thats guilt by association.
Click to expand...

Like "Reverend Wright" and a couple known terrorists? one who ghost wrote Obama's book?
 
TurtleDude said:
I bet he isn't concerned about former Dem Senator and governor Corzine engineering a 41 Billion (and counting) bankruptcy
Click to expand...

TurtleDude said:
Like "Reverend Wright" and a couple known terrorists? one who ghost wrote Obama's book?
Click to expand...

Thank you for showing textbook examples of how to use evasion and distraction to draw attention away from something.
 
99percenter said:
Romney and his son both made money of this scheme which they helped finance.
Click to expand...

So what? Some clients of Madoff also made money before the whole thing blew up.

And as for guilt by association, republicans tried to tie Barack Obama to people he hardly knew. Thats guilt by association.
Click to expand...

And you shouldn't accept any of those arguements, just like you shouldn't make this aruement
 
99percenter said:
Romney and his son both made money of this scheme which they helped finance. And as for guilt by association, republicans tried to tie Barack Obama to people he hardly knew. Thats guilt by association.
Click to expand...

Read the article. Neither Romney had anything to do with the scheme itself. Tagg later partnered with some men who were involved at Stanford, using money previously given to him by his father.
 
Redress said:
See, this is a good example of why conservatives are having such a hard time against a weak president. Cain's problems and this story are not the media's fault, and I am not even going to go into apdst's insane rant.
Click to expand...

compare/contrast:

Media's treatment of alleged concerns of John Edward's sexual misbehavior circa 2004
Media's treatment of alleged concerns of Herman Cain's sexual misbehavior circa 2012

Theoretical: nameless accusations of alleged concerns about Barack Obama's sexual misbehavior circa 2008? if the story had run, it would have have run as follows:

MSM said:
Highlighting their increasing desperation to make something - anything - stick to Democrat Presidential Candidate Barack Obama, Republicans have turned to vague, difficult to define sexual charges, which some critics have pointed out speaks to the poor history of racism's treatment of black mens' sexuality...
Click to expand...




as for the charge above - i predict this is going to get about as much wind as the "GEORGE BUSH'S GRANDFATHER FINANCED THE NAZIS!!! idiocy we were all treated to a few years back.
 
TurtleDude said:
Like "Reverend Wright" and a couple known terrorists? one who ghost wrote Obama's book?
Click to expand...

There we go. He was connected to people he hardly knew or didnt even know like ayers and franklin raines respectively.
 
Redress said:
Thank you for showing textbook examples of how to use evasion and distraction to draw attention away from something.
Click to expand...

That's not what he is doing. he is just showing everybody that, if a Democrat sticks his head in a bucket of manure, then Republicans have the God given right to do the same thing. LOL.
 
this was too rich ... tagg, you're it:
“We don’t control them at all, we just own them,”
Click to expand...
we only enjoy the income off of their activities
if they do anything wrong, we trot out this line to establish plausible deniability



like father like son
too bad neither possess the many attributes of george romney
but mitt does seem to have inherited his dad's failings:
Watching George Romney run for the presidency was like watching a duck try to make love to a football
Click to expand...
as observed by ohio governor jim rhodes
 
nonpareil said:
Guilt by association is not a valid arguement. If his son conducted the Ponzi Schemem himself, it still doesn't mean Romney has done anything wrong.
Click to expand...

You mean like Obama and Reverend Wright, right? :mrgreen:
 
justabubba said:
this was too rich ... tagg, you're it:
we only enjoy the income off of their activities
if they do anything wrong, we trot out this line to establish plausible deniability



like father like son
too bad neither possess the many attributes of george romney
but mitt does seem to have inherited his dad's failings:
as observed by ohio governor jim rhodes
Click to expand...

In 1964, the "Stop Goldwater" wing of the Republican Party attempted to draft George Romney to be the nominee. Romney said no.
 
cpwill said:
compare/contrast:

Media's treatment of alleged concerns of John Edward's sexual misbehavior circa 2004
Media's treatment of alleged concerns of Herman Cain's sexual misbehavior circa 2012

Theoretical: nameless accusations of alleged concerns about Barack Obama's sexual misbehavior circa 2008? if the story had run, it would have have run as follows:






as for the charge above - i predict this is going to get about as much wind as the "GEORGE BUSH'S GRANDFATHER FINANCED THE NAZIS!!! idiocy we were all treated to a few years back.
Click to expand...

And you are doing it again. "It's not your guys fault, it's just the media, oh boo hoo, we are such victims"
 
cpwill said:
compare/contrast:

Media's treatment of alleged concerns of John Edward's sexual misbehavior circa 2004
Media's treatment of alleged concerns of Herman Cain's sexual misbehavior circa 2012
Click to expand...
1. Edwards story did get alot of media treatment.

2. Cain is currently running for President. Edwards was already out of the race when his story broke. If a story about Pawlenty's sexual misbehavior came out it wouldn't be reported on extensively cause he's not in the race anymore. See how that works?

Conservatism = self-responsibility and accountability, fff, my happy ass. It's the same whiners on here day in and day out that can't handle real life. Some of the more odd conservatives have been ****ting their pants over the liberal media ever since Palin was asked the question "What do you read?" and considered that a really tough question.
 
Samhain said:
The timing of this article is off by about 2 months. If it was about Perry, it would be one month old.

You are supposed to be hitting Cain right now. Get with the picture.
Click to expand...

:rofl

......................
 
rathi said:
Anyone want to talk about the actual issue? I don't see this as having a huge impact on Mitt. Basically, he gave his son 10 million in start up capital back in 2008. His son then proceeded to partner with a bunch of guys who were on trial for running Ponzi scheme. Tagg's firm also gave some money back to his fathers campaign. There is no direct connection to Mitt, nor is their any evidence that anyone used political power to influence the trial. The end result is that hopefully Romney will tell his son not to do business with scumbags.
Click to expand...

You're probably right, but here's the rub...

Guilt by association. Plus, Mitt has already gone through an episode of a company forming, making a donation to his campaign and then folding early on in his presidential bid. People will remember that episode and may not care where the truth lay. If Mitt handles this situation poorly or his son's business partners go down, people won't care how little or how much Mitt's involvement runs. All they'll care about is "here we go again...another Wall Street elitist swindling money from people's 401k plan".

Keywords: Bernie Meddoff, ponzi scheme

There's no easy way of getting around those two words where fraud is concerned.
 
1Perry said:
I want to repeal Dodd/Frank as every thinking person should want it repealed and replaced with something that doesn't institutionalize Too Big To Fail.
Click to expand...

Look to Sen. Bernie Sanders.

Senator Bernie Sanders (I-VT) introduced new legislation on Friday that should, he claims, solve the phenomenon of massive and failing financial institutions holding the nation's economy captive.

It's all of two pages long.

The Vermont Democrat-Socialist unveiled the "Too Big to Fail, Too Big to Exist Act" -- which he billed as a succinct remedy for tackling financial risk and avoiding a repeat of the taxpayer-funded bailouts that occurred just one year ago.

The act is straightforward. It would require that 90 days after its passage, Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner "submit to Congress a list of all commercial banks, investment banks, hedge funds and insurance companies that the Secretary believes are too big to fail."

Subsequently, one year after the law is enacted, the Treasury Secretary would be required to "break up entities included on the Too Big To Fail List, so that their failure would no longer cause a catastrophic effect on the United States or global economy without a taxpayer bailout."
linkypoo...
Click to expand...
 
poweRob said:
Look to Sen. Bernie Sanders.
Click to expand...

Please, you might as well call that "Bernie's Latest Grandstanding Act" as its a one time shot, and puts everything at Geithner's feet.

On top of that, the Secretary of the Treasury doesn't have the power to break anything up to begin with.
 
Samhain said:
Please, you might as well call that "Bernie's Latest Grandstanding Act" as its a one time shot, and puts everything at Geithner's feet.

On top of that, the Secretary of the Treasury doesn't have the power to break anything up to begin with.
Click to expand...

I see what you are saying and how it was worded in that article but I think the real way it was to happen was for Geihtner to have to declare who was too big to fail. And if he were to declare any that were too big to fail then anti-trust measure would be used to break them up.
 
AdamT said:
Obama did not deny that anyone questioned his citizenship. He said that the claim was BS and he provided not one but two birth certificates to prove that it was BS.

This is about Cain's reaction to the story -- not the story itself. First he claimed he didn't know that there was a settlement with his accusers, which is hard to believe. Then he changed his story and said that he did know something about the settlement, but didn't know what the terms were. If he wanted to he could waive the confidentiality agreement and let the accusers tell their side of the story....
Click to expand...

We have no problem with our leaders changing their stories. Obama had said that he was sure that nobody had talked to the Illinois guv about who would replace him in the Senate only to come out later and state that well, yeah Rahm had talked to him about it. I could note that this was a relevant recent story at the time also. Not something over 10 years old.
 
poweRob said:
Look to Sen. Bernie Sanders.
Click to expand...

I do agree with Samhain that this is passing the buck and that Geithner can't force a break up on banks BUT it is better than Dodd/Frank. Sanders could enact a one page law that simply states that it's illegal to bail anyone out.

Much of what is happening will end on it's own if it's clear that the risks are 100% your own.
 
1Perry said:
I do agree with Samhain that this is passing the buck and that Geithner can't force a break up on banks BUT it is better than Dodd/Frank. Sanders could enact a one page law that simply states that it's illegal to bail anyone out.

Much of what is happening will end on it's own if it's clear that the risks are 100% your own.
Click to expand...

Which is what Sander's measure was to ensure. If it was too big too fail then we'd have to bail them out. Therefore we would pursue anti-trust measures to break them up. Too big to fail = too big to exist.

What remains after that are companies who face the risks of the business world without the ability to be bailed out.
 
poweRob said:
Which is what Sander's measure was to ensure. If it was too big too fail then we'd have to bail them out. Therefore we would pursue anti-trust measures to break them up. Too big to fail = too big to exist.

What remains after that are companies who face the risks of the business world without the ability to be bailed out.
Click to expand...

Yes to be fair I would need to know more about Sanders proposal but all the same like I said, it's better than Dodd/Frank in any measure. Of course it has a zero zero chance of passing.
 
1Perry said:
Yes to be fair I would need to know more about Sanders proposal but all the same like I said, it's better than Dodd/Frank in any measure. Of course it has a zero zero chance of passing.
Click to expand...

Not just zero chance... but zero zero chance... DAMN!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom