Herman Cain being attacked for being a TRUE LIbertarian

I'm sorry, but these GOP/Tea-Bagger attacks against Cain are true hypocrisy.

True Libertarianism seeks to limit as much government involvement in people's lives as possible.

And to his credit, Cain's views on abortion represent TRUE Libertarianism.

He is against abortion....BUT...he believes its not the role of government to tell women or any other person what they can/cannot do to/with their body.

This is the view of a TRUE Libertarian, and I totally respect Cain for his view.

But unfortunately, as the GOP/Tea-Baggers are a bunch of hypocrites, such a view will not help his chances, but hurt them.

Such is the fate of Conservatives who actually hold true to their views, regardless of how popular they are.

Herman position on abortion pretty much mirrors my own.
personally,i'm incredibly anti-abortion... but i'm politically pro-life/apathetic on the issue.

Thunder said:

I'm sorry, but these GOP/Tea-Bagger attacks against Cain are true hypocrisy.

True Libertarianism seeks to limit as much government involvement in people's lives as possible.

And to his credit, Cain's views on abortion represent TRUE Libertarianism.

He is against abortion....BUT...he believes its not the role of government to tell women or any other person what they can/cannot do to/with their body.

This is the view of a TRUE Libertarian, and I totally respect Cain for his view.

But unfortunately, as the GOP/Tea-Baggers are a bunch of hypocrites, such a view will not help his chances, but hurt them.

Such is the fate of Conservatives who actually hold true to their views, regardless of how popular they are.

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Woe be to the politician who is actually honest.

to add to my post... it's not just conservatives who attack my position... it's liberal pro-choicers who most often do.

it seems to me that conservatives will attack my position for not utilizing government to aid in ending abortion... and liberals attack me for simply opposing abortion on a moral level.

<shrug> can't win for losing....

Thrilla said:

to add to my post... it's not just conservatives who attack my position... it's liberal pro-choicers who most often do.

it seems to me that conservatives will attack my position for not utilizing government to aid in ending abortion... and liberals attack me for simply opposing abortion on a moral level.

<shrug> can't win for losing....

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I agree with your abortion position. Though I personally find abortion immoral (I also consider divorce immoral), I think the standard of morality is higher than the standard of morality. Government should not be legislating morality. Instead, moral issues are the domain of a higher authority .. hence I am pro-choice.

I also get very annoyed with abortion being a political issue. There is far too much time and attention devoted to it... and it has become a gating item for candidates in both parties (who cares?). There are far more important issues in the body politic than abortion.

As a Democrat, I was visited by someone wanted to raise money for the pro-choice movement.... when I told her that I thought this issue took too much of our political attention already and I wasn't giving any money she got quite pissy, turned her back and told me I would feel different if I had a uterus.

upsideguy said:

...Government should not be legislating morality. Instead, moral issues are the domain of a higher authority .. hence I am pro-choice.

I also get very annoyed with abortion being a political issue. There is far too much time and attention devoted to it... and it has become a gating item for candidates in both parties (who cares?). There are far more important issues in the body politic than abortion.

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Totally agree here. It's not the government's business. If people are against abortion...don't do it. If someone is for it, that's their problem.

Thunder said:

I'm sorry, but these GOP/Tea-Bagger attacks against Cain are true hypocrisy.

True Libertarianism seeks to limit as much government involvement in people's lives as possible.

And to his credit, Cain's views on abortion represent TRUE Libertarianism.

He is against abortion....BUT...he believes its not the role of government to tell women or any other person what they can/cannot do to/with their body.

This is the view of a TRUE Libertarian, and I totally respect Cain for his view.

But unfortunately, as the GOP/Tea-Baggers are a bunch of hypocrites, such a view will not help his chances, but hurt them.

Such is the fate of Conservatives who actually hold true to their views, regardless of how popular they are.

Click to expand...

the glaring flaw in your position here is that you seem to think that the GOP/Tea Partiers are libertarians.. they aren't.

conservatives can attack a position held by a libertarians..and not be a hypocritical.
even when they agree on the meat of the issue ( in this case, being anti-abortion), the ends and means maybe be entirely different and the position may built upon by differing rationales.

misleading title or just post.

Herman Cain is not a true libertarian XD. He just has a view that happens to be libertarian. I doubt he read anything on the matter of libertarianism. Actually, he went back on his stance saying ""From conception, no abortions, no exceptions," and he will do everything he can do as a president to protect life saying he's 100% pro-life.

the glaring flaw in your position here is that you seem to think that the GOP/Tea Partiers are libertarians.. they aren't.

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^^ Especially for GOP in Iowa where there main concern is making abortion a state right issue or a total ban. In this case, it was Herman lack of words that got him.

I am a Liberal, a Democract, and a Social-Democrat.

However, I am not a slave to my party or any ideology, so I hold some views that defy party policies, such as wanting a fence on the Mexican border and much harsher penalties for hiring illegals. This makes more than a few Liberals & Democrats VERY angry at me.

This is why I applaud Cain for his stance. It takes courage to stand up to ideologues who value party over personal integrity.

As stated previously, this is a Libertarian position but by no stretch of the imagination is Cain a Libertarian. He still favors the warfare state, the federal reserve, and taxes to name three.

Thunder said:

I'm sorry, but these GOP/Tea-Bagger attacks against Cain are true hypocrisy.

True Libertarianism seeks to limit as much government involvement in people's lives as possible.

And to his credit, Cain's views on abortion represent TRUE Libertarianism.

He is against abortion....BUT...he believes its not the role of government to tell women or any other person what they can/cannot do to/with their body.

This is the view of a TRUE Libertarian, and I totally respect Cain for his view.

But unfortunately, as the GOP/Tea-Baggers are a bunch of hypocrites, such a view will not help his chances, but hurt them.

Such is the fate of Conservatives who actually hold true to their views, regardless of how popular they are.

Click to expand...

The issue of abortion has never really mattered to libertarians, or to the ideology. It sees both sides, and accepts the reality of each. Therefore, it's not him being a libertarian, but being a conservative.

Thunder said:

I'm sorry, but these GOP/Tea-Bagger attacks against Cain are true hypocrisy.

True Libertarianism seeks to limit as much government involvement in people's lives as possible.

And to his credit, Cain's views on abortion represent TRUE Libertarianism.

He is against abortion....BUT...he believes its not the role of government to tell women or any other person what they can/cannot do to/with their body.

This is the view of a TRUE Libertarian, and I totally respect Cain for his view.

But unfortunately, as the GOP/Tea-Baggers are a bunch of hypocrites, such a view will not help his chances, but hurt them.

Such is the fate of Conservatives who actually hold true to their views, regardless of how popular they are.

Click to expand...

Are true libertarians in favor of eradicating the entire penal code? Just about any criminal statute could be seen as a government interfering with the choices of individuals.

Libertarians don't believe in restricting behavior that doesn't really effect outsiders, for no legitimate purpose. Abortion, however, arguably doesn't fall into that category.

Libertarianism, is NOT a Conservative position. It is in fact a LIBERAL position, which is the absolute last thing that the Republican Party needs to be promoting at this time... He's SOFT on abortion. He's SOFT on the poor. He's SOFT all around. We don't need that.

Krhazy said:

Are true libertarians in favor of eradicating the entire penal code?...

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TRUE Libertarians believe in doing away with all laws that simply tell folks what they can and cannot do with their own bodies.

that includes smoking, drinking, drugs, suicide, tatoos, haircuts, contact-lenses, and yes...abortion.

Cain is RIGHT to view abortion as a matter of individual liberty.

Thunder said:

TRUE Libertarians believe in doing away with all laws that simply tell folks what they can and cannot do with their own bodies.

that includes smoking, drinking, drugs, suicide, tatoos, haircuts, contact-lenses, and yes...abortion.

Cain is RIGHT to view abortion as a matter of individual liberty.

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It's mixed/been left out because people view it differently. Does the mom aborting the fetus/baby infringe on the fetus/baby rights (individual liberty) or can the mother do whatever she wants with her own/inside her body?

Also it's been said before, he can have a view but doesn't mean he fully subscribes to that philosophy. Cain is for our current system war on drugs which isn't libertarian. Best you can do is say he is mixed but he went back on what he originally said. Cain said he is 100% pro-life. ""From conception, no abortions, no exceptions," and he will do everything he can do as a president to protect life.

This feedback he is getting from Peirs Morgan interview doesn't matter to us but to the GOP. They want abortion to be a state issue or total ban (get rid of roe vs wade) and he is trying to win the republican primary. Saying what he originally said would get them upset since that is a important issue to them.

Thrilla said:

to add to my post... it's not just conservatives who attack my position... it's liberal pro-choicers who most often do.

it seems to me that conservatives will attack my position for not utilizing government to aid in ending abortion... and liberals attack me for simply opposing abortion on a moral level.

<shrug> can't win for losing....

Click to expand...

That's been my position as well. I have always had that crazy mindset that if you don't like something, don't do it, or watch it, or own it yadda yadda. Cain is popular among conservatives for the most part, and tea party people as well. How else to explain is recent gains hmm?? Its the liberal GOP establishment that are scared shytless of him. Pro life as a general ideology is conservative, but using government to control the behavior and actions of others isn't a conservative principle at all. and today's GOP establishment is anything but conservative.

Thunder said:

TRUE Libertarians believe in doing away with all laws that simply tell folks what they can and cannot do with their own bodies.

that includes smoking, drinking, drugs, suicide, tatoos, haircuts, contact-lenses, and yes...abortion.

Cain is RIGHT to view abortion as a matter of individual liberty.

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Libertarianism provides no guide to whether or not a fetus is deserving of constitutional rights. And if the fetus is entitled to such rights, laws outlawing abortion are laws which tell people what they cannot do with their bodies to other people - much like murder, battery, rape, etc.

Krhazy said:

Libertarianism provides no guide to whether or not a fetus is deserving of constitutional rights. And if the fetus is entitled to such rights, laws outlawing abortion are laws which tell people what they cannot do with their bodies to other people - much like murder, battery, rape, etc.

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Most Libertarians I know view the abortion question should return back to the states, this is also Ron Paul's position.

Thunder said:

I'm sorry, but these GOP/Tea-Bagger attacks against Cain are true hypocrisy.

True Libertarianism seeks to limit as much government involvement in people's lives as possible.

And to his credit, Cain's views on abortion represent TRUE Libertarianism.

He is against abortion....BUT...he believes its not the role of government to tell women or any other person what they can/cannot do to/with their body.

This is the view of a TRUE Libertarian, and I totally respect Cain for his view.

But unfortunately, as the GOP/Tea-Baggers are a bunch of hypocrites, such a view will not help his chances, but hurt them.

Such is the fate of Conservatives who actually hold true to their views, regardless of how popular they are.

Click to expand...

He is not a libertarian, he is a motivational speaker. Period. He is there to make money for his book and to make money as a speaker and eventually get a job on fox. (Wait for it..wait for it...)

By the way, pro life people belive in the sanctity of life! LIFE. So no matter what crime that fetus eventually grows up to commit, they would never be for killing this "LIFE"...righty's?

Zona said:

By the way, pro life people belive in the sanctity of life! LIFE. So no matter what crime that fetus eventually grows up to commit, they would never be for killing this "LIFE"...righty's?

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WRONG. Anti-Abortion (the proper term) people believe in the sanctity of INNOCENT Life. Once it comes out of the womb and commits its first crime, it's no longer innocent and deserves no more protection.

Thunder said:

And to his credit, Cain's views on abortion represent TRUE Libertarianism.

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His views represent libertarianism if he believes that the child should not be considered a person under the law until birth. IF he believes that, then his view is consistant with libertarian ideology as any influence by the government would be on behalf of no one and simply oppressive to the woman. Thus, an unnecessary government intrusion.

HOWEVER

If his view is that the child should be considered a person under the law then his view point is completely split from libertarianism. Libertarianism is NOT anarchism, those are two seperate things. Libertarianism allows for government involvement in specific instances, on such thing is for protection of rights being infringed upon by another. In this case, if he believes the child should be considered a person under the law, then its a legitimate libertarian believed function of government for the government to act as a protector of a child whose having a potential major right violated. If his belief in regards to the child falls here, then he is actually completely going 180 degree's against libertarian philosophy. TO say otherwise would be to suggest libertarians are in favor of removing laws that say the state could step in and take your child into protective custody if you attempt to kill them, which would be untrue.

So whether or not his view point can fall in line with libertarian philosophy relies 100% on his own personal view point as to whether or not the child in womb should be legally considered a person under the law or not. If no, then he's in line with his supposed beliefs. If yes, then he's running counter to it.

The third option of course is that he thinks what it should be considered under the law should be a matter of the people since there is no true way to 100% unquestionably declare it one way or another OTHER than opinion and as such that determination should be a state issue, not a federal issue.

Thunder said:

TRUE Libertarians believe in doing away with all laws that simply tell folks what they can and cannot do with their own bodies.

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You're attempting to, erroniously and ignorantly, infer your own belief system as to whether or not a child in womb should or should not be considered a child under the law as some kind of official unquestionable libertarian belief, which it is not. There is no definitive libertarian ideological position as to whether or not a child in the womb should be considered a person under the law or not, and that designiation is what would determine a persons view based on libertarianism in regards to the legality of abortion.

It is absolutely 100% possible to be a libertarian and pro-life.

the only valid role of govenrment is to protect the rights of individuals.

so the OP wants to ignore the rather large debate of if abortion is affront on the individuals rights of the unborn because he/she is a dishonest poster. sad.

The pro-life ideology has always seemed to me like it belongs in the liberal movement. It's far more in line with the general view-point of those who are against the death penalty in all circumstances than with the ideology, for example, that people who chose not to buy health insurance should just deal with the consequences and shouldn't be given healthcare. Liberals are also those who more often take the side of those who can't or are politically unable to speak for themselves . . . and I can think of no better example than unborn children.

I understand why pro-choice became a liberal staple during the period when being an unwed mother was basically a criminal offense in the eyes of society, though.