• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Dan Savage To Herman Cain: Prove Being Gay Is A Choice

Temporal

Temporal

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 6, 2011
Messages
3,691
Reaction score
2,243
Location
Everywhere and Nowhere
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Independent
Dan Savage To Herman Cain: Prove Being Gay Is A Choice | News | The Advocate

Dan Savage has challenged Republican presidential hopeful Herman Cain to perform a sex act on him to prove that being gay is a choice.

The "It Gets Better" activist was incensed at comments Cain made to CNN's Piers Morgan earlier this week. "I think it's a sin because of my biblical beliefs," Cain said on Wednesday. "And although people don't agree with me, I happen to think that it is a choice."

On his blog Savage posted an open letter to Cain:

Dear Herman,
If being gay is a choice, show us the proof. Choose it. Choose to be gay yourself. Show America how that's done, Herman, show us how a man can choose to be gay. Suck my dick, Herman. Name the time and the place and I'll bring my dick and a camera crew and you can suck me off and win the argument.
Very sincerely yours,
Dan Savage

But Savage had more to say: "When someone argues that being gay is a choice, he's not just insulting gay people. (And ignoring the science of sexual orientation.) He's insulting straight people. If homosexuality is a choice, then so is heterosexuality. Last night on CNN Herman Cain said that being straight is something that a straight person can take or leave. Herman Cain believes that heterosexuality is something a heterosexual can decide to walk away from, like a underwater house or a lousy meal. Straight people should get angry when they hear a straight person making this argument."
Click to expand...

Not exactly eloquently delivered, but the point still stands. When are Presidential candidates going to stop harping on these petty social issues and actually address the core problems in our country? Stop marginalizing minorities with your ignorance and bile in order to get ahead. It makes America look bad and frankly, the actual experts on the subject have clearly demonstrated that people's sexuality is hardwired. Your ignorance is not equal to their knowlege, so STFU already.
 
Does a homosexual advocate challenging a Presidential candidate to "suck my dick" serve to move acceptance of homosexuals further into the mainstream?
 
Reg said:
Does a homosexual advocate challenging a Presidential candidate to "suck my dick" serve to move acceptance of homosexuals further into the mainstream?
Click to expand...

Maybe not, and Temporal did say it wasn't the most eloquently state opinion, but it gets the point across. Being gay is not a choice.
 
Wow...and Dan Savage actually thinks he scores points with that rhetoric? What kind of a total scumbag would see his comments and like them? Pathetic.
 
Gina said:
Maybe not, and Temporal did say it wasn't the most eloquently state opinion, but it gets the point across. Being gay is not a choice.
Click to expand...
Prove it.

BTW...in an answer to Savages idiotic commentary, he might frequent prisons where hetersoexual men 'choose' to engage in homosexual acts on a fairly common basis.
 
VanceMack said:
Prove it.
Click to expand...

Setting up others to do the legwork for no reason being that you clearly won't accept any sources brought before you. amirite?
 
VanceMack said:
Prove it.

BTW...in an answer to Savages idiotic commentary, he might frequent prisons where hetersoexual men 'choose' to engage in homosexual acts on a fairly common basis.
Click to expand...

For starters, I'm sure religious leaders like Ted Haggard, or the pray away the gay founders (their names escape me) who ran off with each other, did they just up and decide, today's the day? I'm gonna be gay? They chose it, following years of anti-gay rhetoric?
 
poweRob said:
Setting up others to do the legwork for no reason being that you clearly won't accept any sources brought before you. amirite?
Click to expand...
When someone makes a claim they need to prove, otherwise, all a skeptic has to do is make the opposite claim, and his job is done.
 
poweRob said:
Setting up others to do the legwork for no reason being that you clearly won't accept any sources brought before you. amirite?
Click to expand...
You have proof? That comment seems to be perfectly acceptable to you for proving it is a 'choice'. SO you should have NO PROBLEM proving otherwise. Im setting up nothing. Simply placing your shoe on your other foot. (or did I miss the part where you commented that Savages 'prove it' comment was problematic?)
 
Gina said:
For starters, I'm sure religious leaders like Ted Haggard, or the pray away the gay founders (their names escape me) who ran off with each other, did they just up and decide, today's the day? I'm gonna be gay? They chose it, following years of anti-gay rhetoric?
Click to expand...
Surely they MUST have made that choice, considering they chose to live a different lifestyle for as long as they did. Are you suggesting that people cant make a choice to act on drives and desires? Does that choice expectation or lack thereof ONLY extend to homosexuals or are we knocking down the walls and telling anyone with a deviant drive or desire they have no 'choice' but to act on them?
 
If I were a candidate and was asked what I personally thought about homosexuality, I would state that I was not going to answer any questions about homosexuality and ask the American people to vote based on issues other than that for once. Same would go for abortion. If the people can't vote for a candidate without first being spoonfed the same irrelevant horse**** that anyone could just lie about, then the people are getting what they're asking for, over and over.
 
VanceMack said:
You have proof? That comment seems to be perfectly acceptable to you for proving it is a 'choice'. SO you should have NO PROBLEM proving otherwise. Im setting up nothing. Simply placing your shoe on your other foot. (or did I miss the part where you commented that Savages 'prove it' comment was problematic?)
Click to expand...

Can you post peer reviewed evidence that homosexuality is a choice? It's much more effective to prove a positive than a negative, and you seem pretty sure that you know what you're talking about.

Hint: Sources from "pray away the gay" don't count.
 
Reg said:
Does a homosexual advocate challenging a Presidential candidate to "suck my dick" serve to move acceptance of homosexuals further into the mainstream?
Click to expand...

acceptance of homosexuality is a given for any rational person

that challenge exposed ole raisin's flawed conclusion

kudos to savage
 
Temporal said:
Can you post peer reviewed evidence that homosexuality is a choice? It's much more effective to prove a positive than a negative, and you seem pretty sure that you know what you're talking about.

Hint: Sources from "pray away the gay" don't count.
Click to expand...
Can you post that people dont have the ability to choose to control sexual desires? Your standard...your argument...go.
 
DarkWizard12 said:
When someone makes a claim they need to prove, otherwise, all a skeptic has to do is make the opposite claim, and his job is done.
Click to expand...

Oh I agree. The burden of proof is on those making the claim. I'm just pretty damn sure what vance is doing though is to sit back and play the nonchalant stone thrower and dismisser no matter what work one does. I've seen it oh so many times. Then it's not a debate or discussion, it is just poop throwing.
 
VanceMack said:
Can you post that people dont have the ability to choose to control sexual desires? Your standard...your argument...go.
Click to expand...

First, you'd have to be shown that homosexuality isn't just about sex. There are gay folks that are abstinent just as there are hetero's doing the same. As far as "choosing" to be gay. What a hoot. Why the hell would one choose to put themselves in a position where from childhood through adulthood you risk getting your ass beat by other kids to being ostrisized by your family and denied rights by your government? Makes no sense.

Oh... here's an article for you to arbitrarily dismiss:

Gay men and heterosexual women have similarly shaped brains, research shows
Lesbians and heterosexual men show same pattern
 
Last edited:
poweRob said:
Oh I agree. The burden of proof is on those making the claim. I'm just pretty damn sure what vance is doing though is to sit back and play the nonchalant stone thrower and dismisser no matter what work one does. I've seen it oh so many times. Then it's not a debate or discussion, it is just poop throwing.
Click to expand...
Its much easier for you to just say "why no...I CANT prove my side either"

I can show point to criminals in prison...heterosexuals that choose to engage in homosexual activity due solely to environment. I can point to people with homosexual tendencies and ideation that choose to live committed heterosexual married lives with families. I can show you people of any variant sexual deviation that has demonstrated an ability to choose to act or not act on said deviation. We have discussed this countless times here. Drives...desires...no explaining them. ACTING on drives and desires is a choice.
 
poweRob said:
First, you'd have to be shown that homosexuality isn't just about sex. There are gay folks that are abstinent just as there are hetero's doing the same. As far as "choosing" to be gay. What a hoot. Why the hell would one choose to put themselves in a position where from childhood through adulthood you risk getting your ass beat by other kids to being ostrisized by your family and denied rights by your government? Makes no sense.

Oh... here's an article for you to arbitrarily dismiss:

Gay men and heterosexual women have similarly shaped brains, research shows
Lesbians and heterosexual men show same pattern
Click to expand...
Yourt comment is no different than the same comment I and many others have made here countless times. Homosexual drives are natural. ACTING on them is a choice. As you correctly point out...for whatever reason many abstain. For reasons completely unrelated, some engage in homosexual activities and lifestyles. ACTING on homosexuality is a choice. Sexual drives and desires of ALL variants are natural.
 
VanceMack said:
Its much easier for you to just say "why no...I CANT prove my side either"

I can show point to criminals in prison...heterosexuals that choose to engage in homosexual activity due solely to environment. I can point to people with homosexual tendencies and ideation that choose to live committed heterosexual married lives with families. I can show you people of any variant sexual deviation that has demonstrated an ability to choose to act or not act on said deviation. We have discussed this countless times here. Drives...desires...no explaining them. ACTING on drives and desires is a choice.
Click to expand...

You can't point to anything valid being that sexual activity =/= sexual preference. Men in prison please please please go in there and tell them they are fags. Please do that. I want to study the results. Their sexual behavior is determined by their surroundings being that if there were available women in there, they'd prefer them. They have their sexual choices made for them basically. Not their sexual preferences.
 
VanceMack said:
Yourt comment is no different than the same comment I and many others have made here countless times. Homosexual drives are natural. ACTING on them is a choice. As you correctly point out...for whatever reason many abstain. For reasons completely unrelated, some engage in homosexual activities and lifestyles. ACTING on homosexuality is a choice. Sexual drives and desires of ALL variants are natural.
Click to expand...

Acting on homosexual desires doesn't make homosexual. You are or you aren't. You can be an abstinent gay guy for decades then decide to have sex one day. They didn't "turn" gay that day they decided to have sex. They were gay the whole time. They just didn't sexually act on it. Just like a catholic priest who drops out of the church late in life to get married... he abstained until he married his wife. He was heterosexual the whole time. That was his preference the whole time. It's not the act. It's the person.
 
poweRob said:
You can't point to anything valid being that sexual activity =/= sexual preference. Men in prison please please please go in there and tell them they are fags. Please do that. I want to study the results. Their sexual behavior is determined by their surroundings being that if there were available women in there, they'd prefer them. They have their sexual choices made for them basically. Not their sexual preferences.
Click to expand...
Ive worked with men in prisons. The worst insult you can give someone there is to call them a punk...meaning they are the ****ed...the reciever. Doesnt change the fact that there are heterosexual ****-ees...people doing the act. They turn people out for power and sexual gratification. They CHOOSE to engage in homosexual acts. Their sexual behavior is CHOSEN (except for those on whom it is forced). Your words DEMONSTRATE that sexual behavior, without regard to internal drive, is a CHOICE.
 
Gina said:
Maybe not, and Temporal did say it wasn't the most eloquently state opinion, but it gets the point across. Being gay is not a choice.
Click to expand...

It was obscene. Do you get to be obscene if you have a particular point of view?
 
Dan Savage is certainly being crass. That said, I can see where gays and lesbians would be angry at this point. They want to be accepted as normal productive members of society and there is a major political party that refuses to do so. Think about that, put yourself in their shoes, would that not anger you? Put yourself in their shoes for once, you have a major Republican candidate that has said that homosexuals are godless and that being gay is a choice. Think about that, no matter who they are, no matter what they have done in life, none of that matters, they are godless in Cain's eyes just the same. Would that not make you angry if you were them?
 
Cain and Obama don't have much different views on this. Did Dan Savage tell Obama to "suck my dick" when Obama said marriage was between a man and a woman?
 
VanceMack said:
Ive worked with men in prisons. The worst insult you can give someone there is to call them a punk...meaning they are the ****ed...the reciever. Doesnt change the fact that there are heterosexual ****-ees...people doing the act. They turn people out for power and sexual gratification. They CHOOSE to engage in homosexual acts. Their sexual behavior is CHOSEN (except for those on whom it is forced). Your words DEMONSTRATE that sexual behavior, without regard to internal drive, is a CHOICE.
Click to expand...

sexual act =/= sexual preference. Sexual action can be chosen. Sexual preference cannot.

Until you get that, this is a circular argument.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom