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Lawrence O'Donnell interviews Herman Cain

justabubba said:
what this tells us is that ole raisin not only sat out the effort to gain equal rights he also sat out the viet nam war. no indication he supported it, or opposed it
to me, and others like me, that reeks of an apathetic coward
so, why is it now that he wants to take a political stand?
i am guessing - only because it is now safe to do so

so, go for it republicans. nominate another coward, like cheney
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Cain wasn't the only one who "sat out" the Vietnam War. (And he did work for the Navy during it.) He has said that his number didn't come up, so don't call him a coward unless you want to call all of those of draft age now who haven't "signed up" for Iraq and Afghanistan "cowards" too.

And I'm sure you don't want to do that. BTW, I don't recall Clinton or Biden being called "cowards" because of their college deferments or any of these men either: Draft Deferment: Vietnam

BTW, Lawrence O'Donnell took a deferment too.
 
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nota bene said:
Cain wasn't the only one who "sat out" the Vietnam War. (And he did work for the Navy during it.) He has said that his number didn't come up, so don't call him a coward unless you want to call all of those of draft age now who haven't "signed up" for Iraq and Afghanistan "cowards" too.

And I'm sure you don't want to do that. BTW, I don't recall Clinton or Biden being called "cowards" because of their college deferments or any of these men either: Draft Deferment: Vietnam

BTW, Lawrence O'Donnell took a deferment too.
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Did you check Dick "five deferment" Cheney on that list, one the biggest war mongers (chickenhawk) of all?
 
pbrauer said:
Did you check Dick "five deferment" Cheney on that list, one the biggest war mongers (chickenhawk) of all?
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Sorry about that woody you have for Cheney, but whatever your agenda, he's not the topic of this thread...nor are any other "chickenhawks."
 
pbrauer said:
Did you check Dick "five deferment" Cheney on that list, one the biggest war mongers (chickenhawk) of all?
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Dick Cheney was not interviewed with Herman Cain, and not part of the discussion, therefore irrelevant. Do you have anything relevant to discuss at all?
 
Ockham said:
Dick Cheney was not interviewed with Herman Cain, and not part of the discussion, therefore irrelevant. Do you have anything relevant to discuss at all?
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And neither was Clinton or Biden, please check post #51.:roll:
 
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nota bene said:
Sorry about that woody you have for Cheney, but whatever your agenda, he's not the topic of this thread...nor are any other "chickenhawks."
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......................
nota bene said:
Cain wasn't the only one who "sat out" the Vietnam War. (And he did work for the Navy during it.) He has said that his number didn't come up, so don't call him a coward unless you want to call all of those of draft age now who haven't "signed up" for Iraq and Afghanistan "cowards" too.

And I'm sure you don't want to do that. BTW, I don't recall Clinton or Biden being called "cowards" because of their college deferments or any of these men either: Draft Deferment: Vietnam

BTW, Lawrence O'Donnell took a deferment too.
Click to expand...
 
justabubba said:
what this tells us is that ole raisin not only sat out the effort to gain equal rights he also sat out the viet nam war. no indication he supported it, or opposed it
to me, and others like me, that reeks of an apathetic coward
so, why is it now that he wants to take a political stand?
i am guessing - only because it is now safe to do so

so, go for it republicans. nominate another coward, like cheney
Click to expand...

One thing is for sure, Cain didn't come home and tell lies about non-existant war crimes, falsely accusing fellow soldiers of murder, like John Kerry did.
 
Ockham said:
Also irrelevant....
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Very true... However Herman was old enough to serve in Vietnam and he's running to become CiC, so O'Donnell's questions were very relevant. When O'Donnell runs for POTUS those questions should be asked of him as well. :2razz:
 
Still can't find Full Transcript but... a recount as mine:
Herman Cain's black roots, civil rights participation up for discussion

"....Thursday evening on Lawrence O'Donnell's MSNBC show The Last Word news television show, Herman Cain made an appearance and was challenged by the host about his contention that black people were "Brainwashed" to keep them from considering a conservative point of view.

As he has done in the past, Herman Cain stood behind his statement but with O'Donnell he took it a bit further. Reacting to the latest opinion polls that point to a majority of Americans, no matter what their political affiliation supporting an additional tax burden on rich citizens, the GOP candidate said that they too Brainwashed.

O'Donnell then used quotes from Cain's own autobiography to frame a question about why Cain was not an active participant in the struggle for civil rights. Herman Cain spent his childhood in Georgia and attended Morehouse College during the years 1963-1967, what O'Donnell characterized as the "height" of the movement.

Morehouse has a long tradition of producing African American business and political leaders including Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. and Maynard Jackson, the first African America mayor of the city of Atlanta. O'Donnell read a passage from Cain's book in which the GOP candidate recalls a warning from his father during the days of segregation, to avoid trouble by taking a seat in the rear of a bus. He followed his father's advice.

O'Donnell asked one of the more impertinent questions in recent memory. "Where do you think black people would be sitting on the bus today if Rosa Parks had followed your father's advice?" Cain was taken aback, as one would expect and accused the host of distorting the meaning of his written words.

As the debate got heated, Cain got his dates mixed up and defended his father's words by telling O'Donnell that he was a high school student and too young to assert himself. "If I had been a college student I probably Would have been participating." It was then that he was reminded that he Was in college during a time of great protest and upheaval.

Cain added to his own misery by asking O'Donnell if he expected all black youths at the time to be involved in the marches and added that the host was unable to know the facts of why some might choose not to participate. "You didn't know, Lawrence, what I was doing...maybe, just maybe, I had a sick relative!"

It ended badly as Lawrence O'Donnell pointed to the autobiography text as not containing any information that would lead to that conclusion."....
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He attended Morehouse College but missed years of the Civil Rights movement because he had a 'sick relative'? (after fanning with "High School")
 
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pbrauer said:
Very true...
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Then please, original poster, stay on topic...

pbrauer said:
However Herman was old enough to serve in Vietnam and he's running to become CiC, so O'Donnell's questions were very relevant.
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Which is why Cain addressed then and set him straight on his "avoid" question... are you arguing something different? While a nice strawman, no one is questioning the validity of the question itself, but the obvious bias in the use of "avoid" and the follow up question which was "Why didn't you go and volunteer then" especially, when such a hypocritical question came from O'Donnell who himself, was a coward and did not volunteer.

Therefore your continued participation in this thread is also questionable given the irrelevance of your posts... :shrug:
 
pbrauer said:
And neither was Clinton or Biden, please check post #51.:roll:
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Clinton was relevant as we had this discussion during the Clinton years where it was determined that military experience wasn't necessary.
 
Ockham said:
Then please, original poster, stay on topic...

Which is why Cain addressed then and set him straight on his "avoid" question... are you arguing something different? While a nice strawman, no one is questioning the validity of the question itself, but the obvious bias in the use of "avoid" and the follow up question which was "Why didn't you go and volunteer then" especially, when such a hypocritical question came from O'Donnell who himself, was a coward and did not volunteer.

Therefore your continued participation in this thread is also questionable given the irrelevance of your posts... :shrug:
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As Mr. Cain said "avoid" was a poor choice of words and I agree because it implies he actively tried not serving which he didn't. And O'Donnell's questions about Mr. Cain joining were out of line and just plain stupid.
 
... CAIN: Lawrence, first of all, I wanted to clarify the record because I didn't want to be accused later of saying that I served in the Navy. And if you read the book closely, it says I worked for the Department of the Navy. Now, your choice of words to say, “How did I avoid the Vietnam War?” I wasn't trying to avoid the Vietnam War. Here's what happened, Lawrence. I was working in a critical area called exterior ballistics. I worked on something called the rocket-assisted projectile for the Department of the Navy. It was my local board in Atlanta, Georgia, that told me, we would rather for you to continue to do that analytical work to help the Navy rather than us drafting you. Secondly, when they had the lottery, I made myself available. The year that they had the lottery for the draft they did not draft me because they didn't get to my number. So I think that's a poor choice of words on your part, to say that I avoided the Vietnam War. I made myself available to my country, and they did not draft me. The rest of the time I was serving my country in a critical role called exterior ballistics analysis. So I am offended with your choice of words in terms of what I was doing during the Vietnam War.
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MSNBC's O'Donnell Accuses Herman Cain -- Who Worked for the Navy -- of Being a Draft Dodger | NewsBusters.org
ole raisin's excuse rings hollow
here is his draft number:
Dec 13 163
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The highest number drafted in this group of men was 195.
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The Military Draft and 1969 Draft Lottery for the Vietnam War notices

let's examine the facts
raisin insists his draft number was not reached, causing him not to be drafted
but his draft number was 163
draft notices were sent thru number 195
this tells us that raisin's answer was erroneous

he tells us it was the draft board which told him that he would not be drafted because he worked for the navy
that's not the way it worked. one had to apply for a draft exemption. it was not issued without request
it appears ole raisin did avoid the draft

i wonder if he asked for and received the exemption. it's not like he could not continue to work for the navy while in uniform. or, did raisin hold himself out as a conscientious objector. that would be something which would handicap his current political chances, not unlike dubya's needing to hide the fact that he quit his own obligation. too bad for raisin, his dad is not a former president/head of CIA, who can make government records disappear

i do hope some journalist (like Lawrence O'Donnell) will follow up on this to find out just what the selection board did to prevent ole raisin from having to serve during the height of the viet nam war
 
justabubba said:
MSNBC's O'Donnell Accuses Herman Cain -- Who Worked for the Navy -- of Being a Draft Dodger | NewsBusters.org
ole raisin's excuse rings hollow
here is his draft number:


The Military Draft and 1969 Draft Lottery for the Vietnam War notices

let's examine the facts
raisin insists his draft number was not reached, causing him not to be drafted
but his draft number was 163
draft notices were sent thru number 195
this tells us that raisin's answer was erroneous

he tells us it was the draft board which told him that he would not be drafted because he worked for the navy
that's not the way it worked. one had to apply for a draft exemption. it was not issued without request
it appears ole raisin did avoid the draft

i wonder if he asked for and received the exemption. it's not like he could not continue to work for the navy while in uniform. or, did raisin hold himself out as a conscientious objector. that would be something which would handicap his current political chances, not unlike dubya's needing to hide the fact that he quit his own obligation. too bad for raisin, his dad is not a former president/head of CIA, who can make government records disappear

i do hope some journalist (like Lawrence O'Donnell) will follow up on this to find out just what the selection board did to prevent ole raisin from having to serve during the height of the viet nam war
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Why are you calling Mr. Cain a "raisin"?
 
justabubba said:
raisin cain

is english not your first language?
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If you're going to be rude, at least try to be clever.

English is my first language, and I even finished enough school to know to capitalize it. And to wonder whether your use of the term was a reference to the famed Langston Hughes poem from which the play "Raisin in the Sun" came. I can see now that I was silly to ask a thoughtful question of you.
 
nota bene said:
If you're going to be rude, at least try to be clever.
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there is no logic in that statement
if one intends to be rude, why would they feel an obligation to extend any effort to also entertain the individual to whom the rudeness was directed?

English is my first language, and I even finished enough school to know to capitalize it. And to wonder whether your use of the term was a reference to the famed Langston Hughes poem from which the play "Raisin in the Sun" came. I can see now that I was silly to ask a thoughtful question of you.
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had you been someone whose first language was not english, i was then going to explain the idiomatic expression "raisin' cain" to further answer the initial inquiry

the name of that famous poem you failed to identify was a dream deferred
but delighted you eventually recognized the raisin cain connotation

you're welcome, btw
 
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