Republican Field Set, Now Some Questions For Discussion

Redress said:

I was not going to do this, but then Pete happened...

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While thank you... guess non-Americans are not allowed to comment on American political affairs now?

Hardly any one cares about "Niggerland". I think most people understand it was a legacy name.

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Irrelevant. It is an issue that can be used against him, and most people have not even heard of the issue, so when it is plastered across the tv at prime time commercials, then they will think.. wtf... Image is everything. But it wont be his biggest problem... it is just another nail in the coffin so to say.

For god sakes Pete, her being a woman is not the problem she is going to have.

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Of course it is lol, especially among older conservatives. You can not tell me that American conservatives are more "liberal" on this area than European conservatives, who do have issues about women in power, especially among older conservatives. And who votes the most of all age groups? The older part of the population. My own father is a conservative (moderate conservative), but he also would vote for the man ahead of the woman... at all levels... that is just how he was brought up. Yes attitudes towards women have dramatically changed the last 20ish years.. even more so over the last 40 years, but that does not change the fact that most older conservative men would rather see another man in power than a woman.. who they still see as being home makers (my father included). Each time a woman is fired from a big company or even hired, the comment I get from him and his friends is always.. "oh boy here we go again"... is it sexist? Of course, but that is how they were brought up.

Really Pete, you have no clue about the republican party. Most don't give a **** what race he is, only how conservative he is.

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And as I said.. if it comes down to choosing between the white guy with conservative credentials, and the black guy.. then it will become an issue for others, other than the usual racist suspects in the GOP. And since many contests in this race for the nomination is decided by very few votes, then you betcha it can become a serious problem for Cain.

Some of us would like a grown up discussion without mindless name calling and stupidity.

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LOL, tell that to the GOP. They are the ones with the Tea Party and religious wackos keeping them afloat.

Why are you so fixated on race?

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Because it matters. The GOP needs the Hispanic vote (especially long term), and as it stands now, they wont get it. They will never get the black vote. And like it or not the US is divided very much by race, both politically, economically and socially. Hell all your freaking statistics are broken down by race more than not. If race did not matter, then you would not do that. Look at the last presidential election.. it was all about how Obama managed to call out the black vote... more than ever. If race did NOT matter, then why even mention it?

Not my fault that Americans are in denial on how much it sadly still does mean... but that is how it is.

Ah, those enlightened Europeans...

Pete, where did I say that nonAmericans could not comment? Why build that straw man?

. Though I'm not a huge Romney fan, I do see him remaining the front-runner for at least the next couple months, even with the fact the Herman Cain and other candidates are slowly making noise. He already has support by many different groups of the GOP party and that will continue to grow as 2012 approaches. It should also be noted that it seems like he's the most competetive candidate to put up against Obama. I wouldn't be surprised if he ended up being the Republican Party's nomination when it gets to that point.

2. I think that Perry is clinging to life support right now, and the polls show it. All of the most recent polls show a significant drop in support for Perry. And at the same time, Mitt Romney continues to stay at the top of most polls, as well as other candidates gaining support such as Herman Cain, Rick Santorum, and Newt Gingrich. Perry has put on a few very dismal performances at the recent debates and his hot start is cooling off quickly. I don't see him being able to right the ship before it's too late.

3. I'm going to skip this question, because even talking about Michelle Bachman as a candidate of the United States is downright ridiculous. She's absolutely in no way fit to become president.

4. Hermain Cain is on quite a hot streak in the past week or so, and I really hope he continues to his climb in the polls. The one thing I feel he must do to continue the smooth sailing he's on is to continue to preach his ideas and plans; for example his 9-9-9 plan. Because he is still not recieveing the equal attention he deserves, he must do his best to shine when the spotlights on him. And although he may not have political experiance, in many ways I feel like that could easily be what our country needs. Someone who can spring growth and create jobs and restart our economy and he DOES have the experiance needed for that as a lifelong buisnessman.

5. Personally, I am a huge Ron Paul fan, and I feel like our country's economic woes would turn around with Paul in the whitehouse. However, as aggravating as it may be, he is still seen as "the crazy old guy" who's just rambling on and on about something or other. Not the case, but I don't see him ever truly gaining mainstream support.

6. Aside from Cain, I see this race coming down between Rick Perry and Mitt Romney in the end. Cain has a slight shot, and it's possible for another candidate to make some noise in the future, but it's unlikely.

7. Well, when it really matter's and it's ? vs. Obama, it doesn't matter who is the GOP nomination, they will be getting the Tea Partier votes. No member of the tea party movement will vote for Obama, regardless of his opponent.

8. I don't really know, but just for fun I'd say Hermain Cain or possibly Newt Gingrich for his experiance.

Redress said:

With Palin and Christie both saying no to running, it looks like the republican field for 2012 is pretty much set. This brings to my mind a number of questions. What do you all think about these:

1) Romney is the frontrunner and has been all along except for a spike by Perry. Can he hold on to frontrunner status? Can he make conservatives excited enough to come out in force in Nov 2012?

2) Perry came in with huge numbers, and fell of fast. What can he do to recover and give himself a shot at the nomination?

3) Bachmann, is she a serious candidate? How does she overcome that she is part of a congress with a 10 % approval rate?

4) Cain is surging. What does he need to do to continue to surge? How can he combat the charge he has no government experience?

5) Is there anything Paul can do to appeal to mainstream voters?

6) Can any one else make an impact?

7) How do the candidates appeal to the Tea Party for the primaries, without being saddled with the Tea Party candidate tag which would hurt in the general?

8) Any front runners for VP?

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1) Romney is the msm and establishment GOP darling. All the favors are going to him. I see him making the same mistake as 08 though and playing prevent defense. The est GOP will work harder for him this time than they did last time, as they too felt he was the lock but McCain slipped through with a strong moderate and liberal GOP fanbase. Romney at some point will have to get his hands dirty and will have to appeal to conservatives and the tea party members. He will flip and he will flop, but will still be carried by the msm and establishment. Will it be enough, i sure as hell hope not, but he is the man to beat.


2) I don't feel that Perry is all that far behind or that he has made serious blunders or fallen. That is a media and establishment creation. He will do much better in the actual primary voting than what he is perceived to be by the pollers, the msm and the establishment.

Bachmann is a serious candidate, but I do believe both Perry and Romney will overcome her. My fear is that the conservative base will split between her, Perry and Cain and the rest will go to Romney. I believe also that that is the gameplan of Romney and the establishment. One of the conservatives will have to really get some good mojo going on to thump the others. IF that does happen, buh bye Romney. I don't see that behing Bachmann though.


4) Cain is the outsider anti government conservative and just has to keep doing what he is doing. It will all depend on how good he can campaign as to his actual success, but his message is already set.

5) Not enough, and I think his age now will become a factor.

6) Not that I foresee, other than who gets backing perhaps as they begin to drop.

7) The bigger problem is not being saddled with the tea party but by not getting their suppport. This will be Romney's weakest link, the rest are comfortable in and around the tea party.

8) Cain most likely, possibly Bachmann, although I am not sure if they want to re create an 08 feel, but stranger and dumber things have happened. Technically she would make a great VP pick, but not after 08.

lpast said:

I agree and I think whats going to bring out the vote for Obama is the Teaparty Rhetoric and their attacks on everything working class...if you look the protests are growing...and they aint conservatives

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Yes, attacks on the "working class." That's how Dems are going to try to distract voters from Obama's abysmal record--"class warfare."

But I'm not sure that the majority of protesters are members of that class. I mean, I've never held a job that allowed me to take off for days to camp out in the streets. :roll:

nota bene said:

Yes, attacks on the "working class." That's how Dems are going to try to distract voters from Obama's abysmal record--"class warfare."

But I'm not sure that the majority of protesters are members of that class. I mean, I've never held a job that allowed me to take off for days to camp out in the streets. :roll:

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Nota bene...the classwarfare was started by the teaparty and their attacks on the working class...Oh and im not a democrat...im a lifelong republican who never voted democrat before now...I voted for McCain...I voted for Rick Scott and Rubio and Nugent this past Nov
That has all changed now...the teaparty declared war on ME...

Redress said:

With Palin and Christie both saying no to running, it looks like the republican field for 2012 is pretty much set. This brings to my mind a number of questions. What do you all think about these:

1) Romney is the frontrunner and has been all along except for a spike by Perry. Can he hold on to frontrunner status? Can he make conservatives excited enough to come out in force in Nov 2012?

2) Perry came in with huge numbers, and fell of fast. What can he do to recover and give himself a shot at the nomination?

3) Bachmann, is she a serious candidate? How does she overcome that she is part of a congress with a 10 % approval rate?

4) Cain is surging. What does he need to do to continue to surge? How can he combat the charge he has no government experience?

5) Is there anything Paul can do to appeal to mainstream voters?

6) Can any one else make an impact?

7) How do the candidates appeal to the Tea Party for the primaries, without being saddled with the Tea Party candidate tag which would hurt in the general?

8) Any front runners for VP?

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1. Romney would do will to team up with Herman Cain as his VP choice.

2. Perry I belive will continue to fade.

3. Michelle Bachmann needs to bow out gracefully, as she has no chance.

4. As I said Mr. Cain should team up with Romney if he faulters. If he continues to move up and stay there he'll get my vote.

5.Ron Paul has just about no hope and is another one who should bow out.

6. The field is set and it is too late for any new person.

7. Left has lied so much about what the Tea Party stands and who they are it's not funny worth a damn. The thing is thyere are a lot of people who don't buy the Liberal BS and identify with the Tea Party and they will be a force to deal with.

7. Left has lied so much about what the Tea Party stands and who they are it's not funny worth a damn. The thing is thyere are a lot of people who don't buy the Liberal BS and identify with the Tea Party and they will be a force to deal with

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What do they stand for then? Is it a Liberal lie they are for lower taxes, less regulation, and less government spending?

lpast said:

Nota bene...the classwarfare was started by the teaparty and their attacks on the working class...Oh and im not a democrat...im a lifelong republican who never voted democrat before now...I voted for McCain...I voted for Rick Scott and Rubio and Nugent this past Nov
That has all changed now...the teaparty declared war on ME...

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You have touched on an important point that it is not that the left has moved further to the left, they are proposing modest tax increases for millionaires that are much lower than the levels in the past. Yet, the right has indeed moved further to the right, who now propose cutting benefits to our seniors in order to continue the tax cuts to the wealthy.

Honoring our commitments to our seniors has become viewed as socialism by the conservative party that once actually believed in conservation of our people and our environment.

Catawba said:

You have touched on an important point that it is not that the left has moved further to the left, they are proposing modest tax increases for millionaires that are much lower than the levels in the past. Yet, the right has indeed moved further to the right, who now propose cutting benefits to our seniors in order to continue the tax cuts to the wealthy.

Honoring our commitments to our seniors has become viewed as socialism by the conservative party that once actually believed in conservation of our people and our environment.

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Can you tell us what the new tax rate will be? Lets keep in mind that the tax rates are due to rise in 2013, with the top rate going up about 4%. Then we have a surcharge in the HC bill that will be added, in addition to uncapping the Medicare portion of taxes and now this 5-6% surcharge. Then if you would look at the top marginal rate in the states where the greatest proportion of these high income people live.

I have not done the math, but it seems you must have as you keep repeating that people need to pay more. Perhaps they do, but the question is how much more. As you no doubt have a good understanding of the history of our tax laws since you cite them as much as you do, you also know that when rates were dramatically cut in 1986, deductions that mostly went to the wealthy were also cut.

So what is the rate that this new tax will create and what is the tax rate you think would be fair?

lpast said:

Nota bene...the classwarfare was started by the teaparty and their attacks on the working class...Oh and im not a democrat...im a lifelong republican who never voted democrat before now...I voted for McCain...I voted for Rick Scott and Rubio and Nugent this past Nov
That has all changed now...the teaparty declared war on ME...

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I'd be interested to learn how. I am not a member of the Tea Party or the Republican Party either, and I am not sure exactly what the Tea Party formally is except various groups of voters who are disgusted with "business as usual" in DC and who are very concerned about reckless spending/lack of accountability. So how did the Tea Party declare war on you?

How did it start class warfare? In what way(s)? Can you give me some examples of its attacks on the working class?

And how you define the "working class"? I ask because nearly half of this country doesn't pay any taxes and relies on some government assistance while I continue to bust my ass.

I consider myself part of the "working class" because I actually work. I've missed the attacks you're referencing on me and people like me.

Thanks in advance for explanatory details.

washunut said:

Can you tell us what the new tax rate will be? Lets keep in mind that the tax rates are due to rise in 2013, with the top rate going up about 4%. Then we have a surcharge in the HC bill that will be added, in addition to uncapping the Medicare portion of taxes and now this 5-6% surcharge. Then if you would look at the top marginal rate in the states where the greatest proportion of these high income people live.

I have not done the math, but it seems you must have as you keep repeating that people need to pay more. Perhaps they do, but the question is how much more. As you no doubt have a good understanding of the history of our tax laws since you cite them as much as you do, you also know that when rates were dramatically cut in 1986, deductions that mostly went to the wealthy were also cut.

So what is the rate that this new tax will create and what is the tax rate you think would be fair?

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They are proposing a tax rate on total income for those making a million and more, comparable to the tax rates payed by the middle class on their total income. That sounds about right to me at this time.

Catawba said:

They are proposing a tax rate on total income for those making a million and more, comparable to the tax rates payed by the middle class on their total income. That sounds about right to me at this time.

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Now that is a flat out lie. So we can end this "debate". I am tired of mindless posts.

Redress said:

1) Romney is the frontrunner and has been all along except for a spike by Perry. Can he hold on to frontrunner status? Can he make conservatives excited enough to come out in force in Nov 2012?

2) Perry came in with huge numbers, and fell of fast. What can he do to recover and give himself a shot at the nomination?

3) Bachmann, is she a serious candidate? How does she overcome that she is part of a congress with a 10 % approval rate?

4) Cain is surging. What does he need to do to continue to surge? How can he combat the charge he has no government experience?

5) Is there anything Paul can do to appeal to mainstream voters?

6) Can any one else make an impact?

7) How do the candidates appeal to the Tea Party for the primaries, without being saddled with the Tea Party candidate tag which would hurt in the general?

8) Any front runners for VP?

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1. He will certainly stay front runner til the very end. It is also very possible he could win. It really depends on Cain's performance. He may win the general election, but only if Obama is unpopular enough. I have no confidence in him as a President.

2. Perry won't be able to. He has done too much damage to his own campaign. If he does well, then he is just going to prevent Cain from winning, and Romney will win. BTW: it's not the skeletons that killed Perry's campaign, but his debate performance and the loss in Florida.

3. Bachmann is not a serious candidate. Only hard-core social conservatives like her. Also, she looks crazy.

4. I don't think I can answer what would be his best strategy. I think he's right not focusing on New Hampshire, and he's been doing well the last 2 weeks. He is a controversial personality, but he needs to make sure he doesn't come with too many controversial statements, especially the ones that are disliked by the right. I think his race card usage was okay. The only candidate that will bother to attack him on that, I think will be Perry. He will be unable to do so. He better prepare for Federal Reserve attacks though. If he doesn't screw up, he might win.

5. No, he's a liberterian. Even less people would vote for him, if they knew what he stood for.

6. No one else can win the election. Gingrich, Paul and Bachmann can all influence who is going to win the nomination.

7. They need to be in the middle between Tea Party and the Liberal Republicans.

8. Gingrich may be a VP choice for Herman Cain. Mitt Romney will not pick any of the candidates.

Catawba said:

They are proposing a tax rate on total income for those making a million and more, comparable to the tax rates payed by the middle class on their total income. That sounds about right to me at this time.

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This is incorrect. They are proposing a form of the Alternative Minimum Tax, on those making over 1 million. If your taxes are below a certain point, you would then use the new tax rate.

Redress said:

This is incorrect. They are proposing a form of the Alternative Minimum Tax, on those making over 1 million. If your taxes are below a certain point, you would then use the new tax rate.

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That's right, and separately they are floating a proposal for a 5% surtax. Both of these ideas have WIDE support. They are even supported by a majority of Republicans, AND a majority of teabaggers.

Redress said:

1) Romney is the frontrunner and has been all along except for a spike by Perry. Can he hold on to frontrunner status?

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Romney seems to hit his ceiling in about the high-20's; he a "frontrunner" mostly by default, as the other 70+% of Republicans duke it out amongst themselves. if a clear notRomney emerges and the others leave the race, Romney is at a disadvantage.

Can he make conservatives excited enough to come out in force in Nov 2012?

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no. but Obama can.

2) Perry came in with huge numbers, and fell of fast. What can he do to recover and give himself a shot at the nomination?

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have a good debate performance and fix his "soft on immigration" image. In addition, he will probably want to start sounding more prepared and economically versed. His record is a powerful thing to run on, but he needs to sound like he understands why it worked, in the mechanical details.

3) Bachmann, is she a serious candidate?

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no. the only time she threatened to become one was when it seemed there was no other viable notRomney emerging.

How does she overcome that she is part of a congress with a 10 % approval rate?

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she doesn't because it's a nonfactor. everyone hates "congress" - but the incumbency reelection rates indicate that we hate our congresscritters much less. "Congress" is just a big, amorphous title to which Americans ascribe the attributes "squabbling" and "only in it for themselves" etc.

4) Cain is surging. What does he need to do to continue to surge?

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What he is currently doing. However, he also needs Perry to continue to falter.

How can he combat the charge he has no government experience?

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He served as chairman of the Federal Reserve of Kansas City; but generally speaking you are right that it's a problem for him. On the upside, he has now taken over two large, failing institutions, correctly identified the needed change, and put the right policies and people in place to turn them around.

This might actually be a bigger problem for him in the primary than in the general (if he get's there). It's hard to imagine Barack Obama successfully making the argument that politicians should have extensive government or executive experience before becoming President.

5) Is there anything Paul can do to appeal to mainstream voters?

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stop talking about foreign policy and the gold standard. stick to messages of Constitutional fidelity, small government, and free market economics.

6) Can any one else make an impact?

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Sarah Palin, Mitch Daniels, Paul Ryan, Marco Rubio, Jim DeMint, and Chris Christie spring to mind. when and if they endorse, that will have an impact on this race.

7) How do the candidates appeal to the Tea Party for the primaries, without being saddled with the Tea Party candidate tag which would hurt in the general?

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Bachmann is the only candidate to whom that "tag" really sticks as a matter of identity. As she is unlikely to win, a Perry or Cain would be "the conservative candidate" more than "the tea party candidate".

8) Any front runners for VP?

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Rubio has said he is out, which is unfortunate in the sense that he would be powerful on the ticket, but good in the sense that he gets' more time to season in the Senate. Still, I would love to have seen him there. Ryan probably will be on the short list, but I think he's better off where he is now. I don't know if Daniels refusal to run for the Presidency means he also won't run for the VP slot. Of the Presidential Candidates, I don't think Newt would be interested, though Santorum might be. We have alot of Republican Governors out there, and they would all probably be looked at.

Face facts: the f*cked up economy handed the republicans a PRIME opportunity to retake the Whte House, and they are in the midst of an epic fail. Conservatives hate Romney, Perry is an idiot, and Cain has no experience. Cain is the wild card but he's gotten a free ride so far because no one has taken him seriously. That will change in a big way if he can sustain his recent surge.

cpwill, as much as we disagree, you gave some great answers here. Thank you for doing this.

Redress said:

This is incorrect. They are proposing a form of the Alternative Minimum Tax, on those making over 1 million. If your taxes are below a certain point, you would then use the new tax rate.

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I was speaking to the equality of the apportionment as compared to middle class taxes, not to the form of the tax change proposed.

AdamT said:

Face facts: the f*cked up economy handed the republicans a PRIME opportunity to retake the Whte House, and they are in the midst of an epic fail. Conservatives hate Romney, Perry is an idiot, and Cain has no experience. Cain is the wild card but he's gotten a free ride so far because no one has taken him seriously. That will change in a big way if he can sustain his recent surge.

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Face facts : Obamas policies have made the economic situation worse not better and ran up an enormous debt. Thats why hes unpopular. Pretending its anything else is fail. Your analysis of candidates is slanted through your usual lens of lefty everything liberal is rosy shades so spare us.

Personally I see the questions as really immaterial, Obama is dead in the water no matter if he wins or loses.

Simple numbers back that up, first .. there is no way the Republicans will lost the congress, and second, the sheer numbers of the 2012 elections says that Republicans will take over the senate as well. I'm not going to look this up again, as I've posted them before, but there is something like 36 seats in the senate up for reelection, of those 36 seats I think it's 23 or 24 of them are currently held by Democrats. Republicans only need to pick up 5 seats in this election and that will give them control of both houses.
With the new rules voted and pass today, that is going to serious limit the power of the minority party in the senate

Now on a side note, seeing how in My opinion, Republicans are going to control both houses, if the truth be told, I'd just as soon see Obama win. I said this because from what I've seen over the last 25 years, nothing good has ever come out of a single party control of our government. The best our government seems to perform is when the balance of power is split in such a way .. that both parties have to move towards the middle ..

As for the Republican candidates …. For all practical logic, Romney is going to win, and I can't stand him. He is just another politician that will say anything to get elected, just as Obama did.

The only candidate that I could support would be Cain, Because he seems to be the only one that has strong convictions, and stands by them, he has plans to try and get us out of this mess… you might not like them, but he puts them out there in simple english that everyone can understand.

Many will say he doesn't have the foreign experience, I say so what! I want someone that is thinking about Americans first, and the rest of the world after our own country. IMO his strong business back ground is better suited then Romney's for the creation of jobs, and what will entice business to either stay or come back to the US.
The last reason I would like to see him be running against Obama, is because we could be just like the liberals, every time they questioned anything about him, conservatives could throw out the race card like the liberal do to defend Obama.

Redress said:

5) Is there anything Paul can do to appeal to mainstream voters?

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This is the wrong question because Ron Paul does appeal to mainstream voters. His favorability ratings nationwide are three to four times higher than his current share of the votes. He clearly does appeal to at least some substantial segment of mainstream voters. What you should be asking is if Paul and his supporters can break through the media blackout that prevents people from seriously considering him as a potential nominee. Cain was hovering around in the single digits before that Florida straw poll, but then the media trumpeted his victory as some major breakthrough and his support skyrocketed. On the other hand, the media play down every breakthrough by Ron Paul. That he has managed to garner the kind of support he has in spite of this concerted campaign against him suggests Ron Paul has huge breakout potential. However, that requires a success so resounding that the media cannot simply wave it away.

jasonxe said:

4) Cain is a risky ticket. If msm ever puts his past mistakes on the forefront, he is a goner. You can't be brought into the race solely for you economic background yet get every economic disaster this decade wrong! When you tell Cain supporters the truth, they're either shock or dismissive. I feel sad for people who are dismissive of it since they're tricking themselves to believe he can be a good candidate. Why? Because they can't switch to anybody else. He is the lesser of the evils in the bunch but you're still choosing evil.

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Hmmmm....interesting take. Care to elaborate?