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Analysis: George Zimmerman Probably Won't Be Convicted....[W:174]

SgtRock said:
Do you really believe TM was an innocent young kid? If Z is telling the truth about M saying "you're going to die tonight" and then he comenced to whooping Z's ass. He is not an innocent kid.
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If; just my opinion but unless Z testifies then that statement bears no influence on this trial. And I'm not trying to take either Z's or T's side in the trial, but rather trying to base my judgement on the facts and evidence presented. IMO, so far I just don't see how a jury could convict Z of anything beyond a reasonable doubt, except making a stupid choice (stay in the car) that led to a boy getting killed.
 
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MaggieD said:
There is no one on Zimmerman's team who thinks this is the slam dunk people on this board believe it is. Nobody. Juries do funny things.
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To hear the int4rwebz tell it, there was no need for a trial. And only some sort of a brain-dead, low-information moron cannot see that GZ is OBVIOUSLY guilty / not-guilty.
 
MaggieD said:
What evidence has been introduced thus far tha portrays Trayvon Martin as a "little gangsta?"
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He was already in trouble at school, and the way he spoke to Z. Did you see his photos online that finally made it out after the little boy pic? He thought he was a bad boy.



Never said you said it, American, relax.
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They why even bring it up?

I agree, Caine. As I've said a number of times, I hope they find him not guilty. I just won't be surprised if they don't.



I don't think that Trayvon Martin was a thug. I think he was pretty much a typical teenager from a tough neighborhood. What evidence has been introduced that would show the jury he's NOT an innocent kid?
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My attitude to this case is simple. If there is sufficient evidence Zimmerman should be found guilty as charged, if not, he should be found innocent. There should be no question of searching around for something of which to convict him. That is not how the law works, or should work.

Upon the basis of what little information is available, I do not feel that this was a justifiable homicide, but that is a moral, not a legal, judgment. I am happy that the matter is being examined in a court of law, and being unfamiliar with US laws governing these actions, am content that a jury will bring down a verdict commensurate with the evidence and the laws of the land.

As I have indicated previously, I am unable to understand why people are so seemingly emotionally invested in the matter. It has been suggested that this is because the outcome may be interpreted in terms of support or otherwise for gun ownership. I don't know, I expect that is a possibility - but a sad comment upon society if the death of a minor is to be thus exploited.
 
American said:
Bull****, Martin was a little gangsta, who got all cocky and tried to beat the **** of our Z. And for his trouble his got shot. Too bad, and this isn't the only shooting that's happened since this shooting. You're acting all emotional, this kid was a punk. He may have not been looking for trouble prior to being aware of Zimmerman, but it's plainly obvious that once he knew Z was watching him, he decided to teach Z a lesson. We know the outcome.
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Odds are Martin may have turned out to be a career criminal. Have two friends who are both in LE and both were not alter boys in high school. They straighten things out in their lives and now are valuable citizens. Am not saying this would happen in Martin's case as the two friends had a great family support system. But calling who has potential and who doesn't is risky.

With that being said it sounds like you would like a death squad. Maybe not a bad idea but at least have some educated police officers in the squad who have access to records on these individuals. Please not some guy hyped up on Temazepam and Adderall making these kind of decisions.
 
American said:
He was already in trouble at school, and the way he spoke to Z. Did you see his photos online that finally made it out after the little boy pic? He thought he was a bad boy.

They why even bring it up?
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Those photos have not been introduced into the trial. Neither is his school record. You're forgetting that.

As to your bolded above? I didn't bring up lynching, you did:

American said:
But that's not the law, convicting him of something is not their job. You make it sound like they need to hunt around for something to get him on. That's a lynching.
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Μολὼν λαβέ;1062023883 said:
If; just my opinion but unless Z testifies then that statement bears no influence on this trial. And I'm not trying to take either Z's or T's side in the trial, but rather trying to base my judgement on the facts and evidence presented. IMO, so far I just don't see how a jury could convict Z of anything beyond a reasonable doubt, except making a stupid choice (stay in the car) that led to a boy getting killed.
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Thing is Z did not break any laws buy leaving his car and following Martin.
 
Μολὼν λαβέ;1062023540 said:
With the fact that Zimmerman is the only remaining person at the scene during the shooting, people will still believe what they want to when the verdict is announced.
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You are correct, and this just boggles the mind... It would be different if both the state and the defense had both put up a strong case, but that just isn't what's happened here. The state has put up a big fat 0. They have presented nothing that proves beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman is guilty of any crime, and haven't even come anywhere close to doing so. The only people who could possibly say, based on what has been presented so far, that Zimmerman should be convicted of any crime, are people who are totally blinded by the bias of some agenda they've embraced and have completely ignored the facts that have been presented during this trial....

Other than flat out lying, there's just no other explanation.
 
SgtRock said:
Thing is Z did not break any laws buy leaving his car and following Martin.
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That is true but somewhere it could be come harrassment. But again thinking of the Fred Phelps gang and their antics you can pretty well do anything in this country you want. Even walk down a street with a bag of Skittles legally.
 
SgtRock said:
Thing is Z did not break any laws buy leaving his car and following Martin.
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You're absolutely right, he didn't. But now T is dead, and Z will never hold a job beyond night manager at McD's. If Z had stayed in his car as he was told by the 911 operator, T would have been questioned by the police and released, and none of this would have happened. Tell me Z getting out of his car wasn't stupid?
 
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Μολὼν λαβέ;1062024102 said:
You're absolutely right, he didn't. But now T is dead, and Z will never hold a job beyond night manager at McD's. If Z had stayed in his car as he was told by the 911 operator, none of this would have happened. Tell me that isn't stupid?
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I'm sorry, but that line is getting REALLY old...

Hey honey, I'm going to walk to the store... You shouldn't do that dear, it's dangerous... But I'll only be a minute...I enter the store and am customer number 1 million... I get a free 1 minute shopping spree... I grab up all I can, but it's too much to carry home, so I call my wife to pick me up in the car... We get home and when i pull into the driveway, i run over the cat... She says, "See, I told you you shouldn't have walked to the store".

That's the same ridiculous logic.
 
Grim17 said:
I'm sorry, but that line is getting REALLY old...

Hey honey, I'm going to walk to the store... You shouldn't do that dear, it's dangerous... But I'll only be a minute...I enter the store and am customer number 1 million... I get a free 1 minute shopping spree... I grab up all I can, but it's too much to carry home, so I call my wife to pick me up in the car... We get home and when i pull into the driveway, i run over the cat... She says, "See, I told you you shouldn't have walked to the store".

That's the same ridiculous logic.
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Would you have gotten out of the car after being told not to by the 911 operator? What did Z have to gain by getting out of his car? Apparently he did not, and you would not have asked yourself that question. Would you have been able to envision a win-win or even win-lose situation (in your favor) by getting out of the car? As it played out it became lose-lose. By your logic that would have been your outcome as well, lose-lose.
 
Μολὼν λαβέ;1062024102 said:
You're absolutely right, he didn't. But now T is dead, and Z will never hold a job beyond night manager at McD's. If Z had stayed in his car as he was told by the 911 operator, T would have been questioned by the police and released, and none of this would have happened. Tell me Z getting out of his car wasn't stupid?
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Yes it was stupid. But he is not on trial for being stupid. He did nothing illegal. He will be acquitted.
 
Tell me if these two statements are the exact same thing...

A pair of brothers live next to each other. Tim and Jim.

Jim hears a noise and comes outside to see that Tim is mowing Jim's grass.

Scenario 1.
Jim says to Tim, "Are you mowing my grass?"
Tim says, "Yes"
Jim says, "I don't need you to do that"


Scenario 2
Jim says to Time, "Hey are you mowing my grass?"
Tim says, "Yes"
Jim says, "Do not mow my grass"



Do both scenarios have the exact meaning?

No. They don't.
 
Μολὼν λαβέ;1062024211 said:
Would you have gotten out of the car after being told not to by the 911 operator? What did Z have to gain by getting out of his car? Apparently he did not, and you would not have asked yourself that question. Would you have been able to envision a win-win or even win-lose situation (in your favor) by getting out of the car? As it played out it became lose-lose. By your logic that would have been your outcome as well, lose-lose.
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The point is, what Zimmerman did was not illegal, and did not justify Martin approaching and assaulting him.

Are you trying to say, that any rational human being should have known that getting out of his truck would result in them being physically attacked?


That's just like saying that anyone who goes outside when it's raining, should expect they will be hit by lightening, therefore should stay indoors.
 
MaggieD said:
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Those photos have not been introduced into the trial. Neither is his school record. You're forgetting that.

As to your bolded above? I didn't bring up lynching, you did:
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It's the way you took off with it. You completely ignored what I was saying.
 
SgtRock said:
Thing is Z did not break any laws buy leaving his car and following Martin.
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Technically?

George wasn't out for an evening walk. He was looking for someone that his imagination deemed "suspicious".
 
j-mac said:
So here we have Dan Abrams, a "journalist" whom from the start was like many other MSM reporters, on TM's side and partly responsible for stirring up the hornets nest surrounding this case...Now even he, is saying that Z will walk....Question is, when will the rest of the TM supporters start to wake up and at least familiarize themselves with the legal standards they have to jump here?
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I will agree that Zim will probably get off. It is the stand your ground law that will get him off. I hope that the people who object will do so towards the dumb ass law that allows this to happen legally, but the anger will probably be directed at zimmerman and the state. The only thing that is slightly ok with this situation is that seeing all the BS zimmerman will have to go through even if freed should make some people think before using their gun. Yes, you may get off, but huge legal expenses and having to live with the reputation is certainly life changing.
 
Crosscheck said:
Odds are Martin may have turned out to be a career criminal. Have two friends who are both in LE and both were not alter boys in high school. They straighten things out in their lives and now are valuable citizens. Am not saying this would happen in Martin's case as the two friends had a great family support system. But calling who has potential and who doesn't is risky.
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I have to say that I am so far impressed with Treyvon's mom, dad, and brother so far. I think that during this they have held themselves with dignity, and class to this point. So, I think that Treyvon, had a good support system. But, whether or not he would have turned around at some point is not the question here. I am sad that he didn't get that chance, however, he made that choice. It was a bad decision for him to be smoking pot, doing codeine recreationally, and it was a bad decision for him to decide to confront Z, instead of getting home to safety that night also. Young adults often make poor choices.

With that being said it sounds like you would like a death squad. Maybe not a bad idea but at least have some educated police officers in the squad who have access to records on these individuals. Please not some guy hyped up on Temazepam and Adderall making these kind of decisions.
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Although I am not a fan of these types of meds being used for sleep disorders, like Temazepam, But as long as he was monitored by his doctor, and not abusing the drug, or drinking during taking it, he should have been just fine, and you as well as others here that are trying to equate taking something for sleep, and something for adult anxiety under a doctors care is disgusting. Neither of these drugs would have contributed to the events that night, and having you and other post this type of disinformation about these drugs in the attempt to suggest a skewed picture of Z as some sort of drug crazed, mental patient is equally wrong. You should educate yourself, then do us all a favor and don't post things you have NO IDEA about.
 
sharon said:
Technically?

George wasn't out for an evening walk. He was looking for someone that his imagination deemed "suspicious".
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"Technically"?

Technically, what you just posted here is just a plain, flat out lie.
 
j-mac said:
I have to say that I am so far impressed with Treyvon's mom, dad, and brother so far. I think that during this they have held themselves with dignity, and class to this point. So, I think that Treyvon, had a good support system. But, whether or not he would have turned around at some point is not the question here. I am sad that he didn't get that chance, however, he made that choice. It was a bad decision for him to be smoking pot, doing codeine recreationally, and it was a bad decision for him to decide to confront Z, instead of getting home to safety that night also. Young adults often make poor choices.



Although I am not a fan of these types of meds being used for sleep disorders, like Temazepam, But as long as he was monitored by his doctor, and not abusing the drug, or drinking during taking it, he should have been just fine, and you as well as others here that are trying to equate taking something for sleep, and something for adult anxiety under a doctors care is disgusting. Neither of these drugs would have contributed to the events that night, and having you and other post this type of disinformation about these drugs in the attempt to suggest a skewed picture of Z as some sort of drug crazed, mental patient is equally wrong. You should educate yourself, then do us all a favor and don't post things you have NO IDEA about.
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George was also taking Librax and an antidepressant... plus he'd switched his ADD drug because of mood swings. Too much medication for a 28 year old.
 
j-mac said:
"Technically"?

Technically, what you just posted here is just a plain, flat out lie.
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Do you want an idiot like George profiling your teen aged son for waking in the rain?
 
MaggieD said:
I don't necessarily think he's right. The jury is going to want to convict him of something. Everything is going to hang on jury instructions.
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I'm sorry MaggieD, but where does this sentiment arise? Why is the jury going to WANT to convict him of "something"?? It's SCARY so many of you hold that opinion. It's scary so many can't come to terms with the prevalent "attitude" fostered by the race baiters, al sharpton, jessie jackson et al, of African American male youth who refer to any non black as "creepy ass cracker". I've experienced this first hand countless times.

It's not until I'm able to joke and kid around with these young men, they drop the "I'm gonna fight you" first inclination. Then they are as fun to be around as any youth.

This was a tragedy. If our collective mindset, as a society, is George Zimmerman "must be convicted of SOMETHING", continues, we will NEVER rectify the situation.

The LESSON to be learned in this tragedy, should not be, you have the right to go break a "creepy ass cracker"'s nose if you feel they are following you.

The LESSON SHOULD be, ok we recognize you believe it was wrong, but if you feel a "creepy ass cracker" is following you around in the dark, MAKE A BEE LINE TO YOUR Father's house, if you start a fight, the guy COULD have a gun and fatally shoot you.
 
tererun said:
I will agree that Zim will probably get off. It is the stand your ground law that will get him off. I hope that the people who object will do so towards the dumb ass law that allows this to happen legally, but the anger will probably be directed at zimmerman and the state. The only thing that is slightly ok with this situation is that seeing all the BS zimmerman will have to go through even if freed should make some people think before using their gun. Yes, you may get off, but huge legal expenses and having to live with the reputation is certainly life changing.
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As a gun owner, and a CCW carrier, one should always think twice before having to use their gun. And I don't think that Z, in that situation was any different. But that you believe that people don't have the right to defend themselves, or their property as bestowed upon us by God as free men, and codified in our Constitution is telling as to whom you side with. I won't live my life under the tyranny of fear of criminals. You seem to be arguing not for the right to be safe, and protected, but rather you are arguing for those rights to be taken by criminals.

You can live like that if you wish Tera, not me, and you can't force me to either.
 
sharon said:
Do you want an idiot like George profiling your teen aged son for waking in the rain?
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You choose the words, and the FACT you choose the words indicates you are NOT rational.

But let me expand. Are you saying, if your teen aged son/daughter feels as if someone is "profiling" them for walking in the rain, you're going to TEACH them to go confront the person and get in a fight?

That should turn out well, as it did in this case.
 
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