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Toxicology excluded?

Oceandan said:
I'll stand by MY statement of what the associate ME Dr. Bao said.
Click to expand...
Is there a transcript anywhere?
I am quite certain he only adjusted his view from no effect to possibly some effect.
Which is, as we can all tell, different from "the amount of THC in TM's blood *was* enough to impair his function"

Oceandan said:
I've heard people making claims "I've never known someone on pot (I'm assuming they mean THC levels in the bloodstream, correct me if I'm wrong) get in a fight". I'll simple say this, if you believe THC has no effect on the physiology of the human body and especially the brain, you've taken too many drugs. (-;
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Those are tow separate things for many people--"getting into a fight" and having an effect.
Seems as though a drug could have some effect other than making someone belligerent.
:shrug:

All the same, the pop-culture portrayal of pot doesn't include an increase in violent behavior. I suspect that the jury will not view pot as something which would make TM more likely to engage in violent behavior.
Now if TM was on amphetamines or alcohol, then I think that the jury would expect that those drugs would render a user more belligerent.


CNN.com - Transcripts

WEST: At your deposition last November, you acknowledged that Trayvon Martin had the active ingredient of marijuana THC in his ingredient?​
BAO: Yes.​
WEST: 1.5 nanograms per milliliter?​
BAO: Yes.​
WEST: And it was your opinion that level of marijuana would have no physical or mental emotional effect?​
BAO: Yes.​
WEST: That was your testimony in November?​
BAO: Yes.​
WEST: When you prepared your notes for your testimony today one of your notes indicates that since last November you've changed your mind on that subject?​
BAO: Changed my opinion.​
WEST: Changed your opinion.​
BAO: Today's the fact, opinion, you cannot use terms, story or mind. I changed my opinion.​
WEST: Last fall --​
(CROSSTALK)​
BAO: I have a right to change. Everybody change. I can change every hour. I don't see any problem.​
WEST: Last fall, your opinion was the level of marijuana would have no physical or mental effect, correct?​
BAO: Yes, at that time.​
WEST: Now your opinion is it would indeed have at least some mental effect?​
BAO: Could be. I said could be
​

imho, saying that the THC could have had an effect different than saying that the THC did have an effect. To me, it implies that the level was so low that it was on the borderline of being able to have an effect.
But that's me. ymmv.
so w/e
 
Simon W. Moon said:
Is there a transcript anywhere?
I am quite certain he only adjusted his view from no effect to possibly some effect.
Which is, as we can all tell, different from "the amount of THC in TM's blood *was* enough to impair his function"

Those are tow separate things for many people--"getting into a fight" and having an effect.
Seems as though a drug could have some effect other than making someone belligerent.
:shrug:

All the same, the pop-culture portrayal of pot doesn't include an increase in violent behavior. I suspect that the jury will not view pot as something which would make TM more likely to engage in violent behavior.
Now if TM was on amphetamines or alcohol, then I think that the jury would expect that those drugs would render a user more belligerent.


CNN.com - Transcripts

WEST: At your deposition last November, you acknowledged that Trayvon Martin had the active ingredient of marijuana THC in his ingredient?​
BAO: Yes.​
WEST: 1.5 nanograms per milliliter?​
BAO: Yes.​
WEST: And it was your opinion that level of marijuana would have no physical or mental emotional effect?​
BAO: Yes.​
WEST: That was your testimony in November?​
BAO: Yes.​
WEST: When you prepared your notes for your testimony today one of your notes indicates that since last November you've changed your mind on that subject?​
BAO: Changed my opinion.​
WEST: Changed your opinion.​
BAO: Today's the fact, opinion, you cannot use terms, story or mind. I changed my opinion.​
WEST: Last fall --​
(CROSSTALK)​
BAO: I have a right to change. Everybody change. I can change every hour. I don't see any problem.​
WEST: Last fall, your opinion was the level of marijuana would have no physical or mental effect, correct?​
BAO: Yes, at that time.​
WEST: Now your opinion is it would indeed have at least some mental effect?​
BAO: Could be. I said could be
​

imho, saying that the THC could have had an effect different than saying that the THC did have an effect. To me, it implies that the level was so low that it was on the borderline of being able to have an effect.
But that's me. ymmv.
so w/e
Click to expand...

We'd have to hear what the defense expert testifies to, but the analysts are indicating that he will be testifying that it would have had an effect. Dr. Bao will probably change his opinion after hearing from that expert.
 
buck said:
We'd have to hear what the defense expert testifies to, but the analysts are indicating that he will be testifying that it would have had an effect. Dr. Bao will probably change his opinion after hearing from that expert.
Click to expand...
He can change his opinion every hours. There's no problem with that.
 
I don't believe anyone is saying or is going to say the THC made it more likely TM would get into a fight. Only that the THC had an "effect" or "possible effect" on his actions. My comment was due to the number of commentators going DIRECTLY to, "THC doesn't make one more prone to a fight".
 
Simon W. Moon said:
He can change his opinion every hours. There's no problem with that.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't rely too much on what he says then. If his opinion is constantly changing based on what the experts for the defense are saying, you may just want to go directly to the experts the defense are presenting. My opinion, anyway.
 
Oceandan said:
I don't believe anyone is saying or is going to say the THC made it more likely TM would get into a fight. Only that the THC had an "effect" or "possible effect" on his actions. My comment was due to the number of commentators going DIRECTLY to, "THC doesn't make one more prone to a fight".
Click to expand...

I think that's what it is. Did it cause him to possibly make decisions he may not have made otherwise? Did it have an effect on his decision making process? I suspect that it would.
 
buck said:
I think that's what it is. Did it cause him to possibly make decisions he may not have made otherwise? Did it have an effect on his decision making process? I suspect that it would.
Click to expand...

Did Adderall, Restoril and Librax have an effect on George's decision making progress?
 
sharon said:
Did Adderall, Restoril and Librax have an effect on George's decision making progress?
Click to expand...

The difference is those are legal and proven to help, not hinder people with ADHD etc.
 
sharon said:
Did Adderall, Restoril and Librax have an effect on George's decision making progress?
Click to expand...

No idea. It's not coming in, though. So, who cares. Besides which, one was legally prescribed and he was with a doctor that was keeping an eye on him. Whereas the other is illegal and no such doctor was keeping an eye on the effects.
 
buck said:
No idea. It's not coming in, though. So, who cares. Besides which, one was legally prescribed and he was with a doctor that was keeping an eye on him. Whereas the other is illegal and no such doctor was keeping an eye on the effects.
Click to expand...

Florida is pill mill central, buck.. You can get a doctor to write scripts.

Too many meds for a 28 year old.
 
sharon said:
Florida is pill mill central, buck.. You can get a doctor to write scripts.

Too many meds for a 28 year old.
Click to expand...

You obviously know little about ADD/ADHD or the situation.

#1 He was not on all of them.
#2 They were different prescriptions at different times.
#3 The law was changed before this happened.

As for the "pill mill" nonsense...

HB 7095 tackles illegal prescription drug distribution at the source in several ways. It increases penalties for over prescribing Oxycodone, requires tracking of the wholesale distribution of certain controlled substances, and provides $3 million to support the continued efforts of state and local law enforcement and state prosecutors.

The bill also bans doctors from dispensing these controlled drugs except under specific circumstances, and provides for the declaration of a public health emergency which triggers a mandatory buyback program for doctors to return controlled substances back to distributors. - Governor Rick Scott Signs Pill Mill Bill that will be a

Had little or nothing to do with the drugs to treat ADD/ADHD.

Get your information straight before posting nonsensical fibs.
 
sharon said:
Florida is pill mill central, buck.. You can get a doctor to write scripts.

Too many meds for a 28 year old.
Click to expand...

Your post is ridiculous. To suggest you know more about George then the doctors that examine and treat him. It's not possible to respond sufficiently to such delusions. No matter what I say, you will continue believing it.
 
sharon said:
Florida is pill mill central, buck.. You can get a doctor to write scripts.

Too many meds for a 28 year old.
Click to expand...

It's FRIGHTENING there are alleged adults making comments regarding a legal case with statements like the above. Not only does it demonstrate a lack of comprehension of the difference between a LEGAL prescribed drug and an ILLEGAL recreational drug, but the author then dives further into the abyss with the asinine statement of "too many meds for a 28 year old".

No wonder our society as a whole is degrading at an exponential rate.
 
Black Manta said:
You obviously know little about ADD/ADHD or the situation.

#1 He was not on all of them.
#2 They were different prescriptions at different times.
#3 The law was changed before this happened.

As for the "pill mill" nonsense...

HB 7095 tackles illegal prescription drug distribution at the source in several ways. It increases penalties for over prescribing Oxycodone, requires tracking of the wholesale distribution of certain controlled substances, and provides $3 million to support the continued efforts of state and local law enforcement and state prosecutors.

The bill also bans doctors from dispensing these controlled drugs except under specific circumstances, and provides for the declaration of a public health emergency which triggers a mandatory buyback program for doctors to return controlled substances back to distributors. - Governor Rick Scott Signs Pill Mill Bill that will be a

Had little or nothing to do with the drugs to treat ADD/ADHD.

Get your information straight before posting nonsensical fibs.
Click to expand...

And some sell Adderall or crush it and snort it or use it for weight loss.

Doctors can lose their licenses in other states for egregious offenses and be licensed in Florida.
 
Oceandan said:
It's FRIGHTENING there are alleged adults making comments regarding a legal case with statements like the above. Not only does it demonstrate a lack of comprehension of the difference between a LEGAL prescribed drug and an ILLEGAL recreational drug, but the author then dives further into the abyss with the asinine statement of "too many meds for a 28 year old".

No wonder our society as a whole is degrading at an exponential rate.
Click to expand...

Seven Charged with Oxycodone Conspiracy in FL Pill Mill Operation



WorkersCompensation.com (press release)-Jul 8, 2013

Miami, FL (WorkersCompensation.com) - Wifredo A. Ferrer, United States Attorney for the Southern District of Florida, Mark R. Trouville, Special ...

WorkersCompensation.com CompNewsNetwork - Seven Charged with Oxycodone Conspiracy in FL Pill Mill Operation
 
sharon said:
And some sell Adderall or crush it and snort it or use it for weight loss.
Click to expand...

So what? What does this have to do with anything I said or the perfectly legal prescriptions George was taking?

sharon said:
Doctors can lose their licenses in other states for egregious offenses and be licensed in Florida.
Click to expand...

So what? You have a talent for straw man arguments if nothing else.

The saddest part is that is the best you could come up with as a response. A lame ass straw man.
 
Pill mill doctors' trial: Owner Christopher George testifies - Sun Sentinel

Excerpt

Jailed pill mill owner says he made millions

June 25, 2013


Christopher George, 32, formerly of Wellington, is serving 17 1/2 years in federal prison for running several pill mills or pain management clinics in Broward and Palm Beach counties.

Christopher George, 32, formerly of Wellington, is serving 17 1/2 years… (SoFlaShare )

Christopher George gave jurors an account Tuesday of how he set up his first clinic in Wilton Manors with five patients showing up on opening day and how it rapidly grew into a moneymaker. Before too long, he said 200 or so "patients" from out of state showed up every day to buy as many pain pills as his doctors would prescribe.

"It grew very fast," George testified, saying he recruited willing doctors with ads on Craigslist.

He only hired doctors willing to prescribe as many oxycodone pills as they thought would not attract the attention of the Drug Enforcement Administration. If they didn't do what he wanted, he said, they were fired.

Some doctors, including Cadet, made as much as $15,000 to $20,000 a week, George testified, and he brought home more than $100,000 a week when the business got going.

The businesses brought in so much cash that his staff quickly stopped using cash registers because they filled up too quickly, he said. They tried cash drawers for a while but George said that slowed down business too much and eventually they settled on dropping the cash into two-gallon trash bins by their desks.

Hassled by police and reporters, George said he moved from the first clinic to locations on Cypress Creek Road in Fort Lauderdale, then Boca Raton and Palm Beach County.
 
sharon said:
Seven Charged with Oxycodone Conspiracy in FL Pill Mill Operation



WorkersCompensation.com (press release)-Jul 8, 2013

Miami, FL (WorkersCompensation.com) - Wifredo A. Ferrer, United States Attorney for the Southern District of Florida, Mark R. Trouville, Special ...

WorkersCompensation.com CompNewsNetwork - Seven Charged with Oxycodone Conspiracy in FL Pill Mill Operation
Click to expand...

Sharon? you follow up with ANOTHER alarming post? Are you now attempting to intimate GZ's medication is being administered by an ILLEGAL oxycodone ring? With all due respect Ma'am, that's alarming.
 
sharon said:
Pill mill doctors' trial: Owner Christopher George testifies - Sun Sentinel

Excerpt

Jailed pill mill owner says he made millions

June 25, 2013


Christopher George, 32, formerly of Wellington, is serving 17 1/2 years in federal prison for running several pill mills or pain management clinics in Broward and Palm Beach counties.

Christopher George, 32, formerly of Wellington, is serving 17 1/2 years… (SoFlaShare )

Christopher George gave jurors an account Tuesday of how he set up his first clinic in Wilton Manors with five patients showing up on opening day and how it rapidly grew into a moneymaker. Before too long, he said 200 or so "patients" from out of state showed up every day to buy as many pain pills as his doctors would prescribe.

"It grew very fast," George testified, saying he recruited willing doctors with ads on Craigslist.

He only hired doctors willing to prescribe as many oxycodone pills as they thought would not attract the attention of the Drug Enforcement Administration. If they didn't do what he wanted, he said, they were fired.

Some doctors, including Cadet, made as much as $15,000 to $20,000 a week, George testified, and he brought home more than $100,000 a week when the business got going.

The businesses brought in so much cash that his staff quickly stopped using cash registers because they filled up too quickly, he said. They tried cash drawers for a while but George said that slowed down business too much and eventually they settled on dropping the cash into two-gallon trash bins by their desks.

Hassled by police and reporters, George said he moved from the first clinic to locations on Cypress Creek Road in Fort Lauderdale, then Boca Raton and Palm Beach County.
Click to expand...

And what does a successful drug sting have to do with George Zimmerman, or anything we have said? They got busted because it is now illegal. So if you think this backs up your ridicules off topic statement, you are sadly mistaken.
 
sharon said:
Did Adderall, Restoril and Librax have an effect on George's decision making progress?

snip to next entry by sharon

Florida is pill mill central, buck.. You can get a doctor to write scripts.

Too many meds for a 28 year old.
Click to expand...

Good grief sharon...Come on....You throw out these drugs in a laundry list like we should all say 'Oh my...*gasp*....Look at this!' And then go a step further and insinuate that Z was pill mill shopping for them....You obviously don't know how these drugs react, or what they are prescribed for, instead choosing to take the inflammatory word of MSNBC when they threw this out there to bias the general public....

1. Adderal - is used to treat ADD/ADHD in children and adults. It is also known generically as amphetamine salts. It is basically pharmaceutical speed, however instead of causing scattered thought, and anxiety, it has the opposite effect on people suffering ADD/ADHD.

2. Restoril/Temazepam - is used for sleeplessness. it causes drowsiness...It is also used as a stabilizer. From my personal experience it is similar to a drug like Seroquel. I have a family member that takes that, and if you'd had the chance to be around someone on a drug like this, you'd know that it knocks them out!

3. Liberax - is used to treat stomach ulcers and irritable bowel syndrome, and relieves anxiety. To throw that drug into the mix, I feel is just your attempt to find as many prescription drugs Z has been prescribed by his doctor simply to make the list longer and make Z look like he was looped out of his mind. I think that is dishonest.
 
Marijuana is known to cause paranoia. Paranoia is known to cause rash actions.
_________

Didn't see the defense enter the toxicology report into evidence? Wonder why not? If they didn't want to trash the perpetrator (Trayvon, who almost certainly perpetrated the initial assault and hit a man when he was down), they could have entered the report without much mention of the marijuana. Let the jury find THC during deliberations. Leaving out THC seems to be a huge mistake by the defense attorneys?
 
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