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Based on what we know, how did the confrontation go down?

sharon said:
His half brother Jarvis?? is a short person.
Click to expand...
No sharon, the name is Jahvaris, who is shorter than Trayvon was.
Which matters not.
Are you trying to say a shorter person, especially a brother, can not tell how tall his own brother is?

Especially when what he says matches up top an official report?
 
Excon said:
No sharon, the name is Jahvaris, who is shorter than Trayvon was.
Which matters not.
Are you trying to say a shorter person, especially a brother, can not tell how tall his own brother is?

Especially when what he says matches up top an official report?
Click to expand...

The Medical examiner's autopsy is the official report..

 
sharon said:
The Medical examiner's autopsy is the official report..

[video=youtube;HNtbknt2VhE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=HNtbknt2VhE[/video
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The police report is an official report also.
I find it very telling that you do not want to accept what his brother says, especially as it matches up with an official report.
Any honest person would understand that maybe the other report is mistaken.

And I have seen that video. It clearly does not prove what you have asserted.
 
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Excon said:
The police report is an official report also.
I find it very telling that you do not want to accept what his brother says, especially as it matches up with an official report.
Any honest person would understand that maybe the other report is mistaken.
Click to expand...

The body didn't go to SPD... It went to the ME in Volusia County.
 
sharon said:
The body didn't go to SPD... It went to the ME in Volusia County.
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Doesn't matter sharon.
He was measured and found to be the same as his brother states.
Any honest person would understand that maybe the other report is mistaken.
 
sharon said:
The Medical examiner's autopsy is the official report..
Click to expand...

I have no idea how tall he was... But, ME reports and death certificates often contain errors. In one of the continuing education classes I had some times ago, it was estimated that well over 80% had at least one error...
 
George was 204 pounds and measured 5'7.5" PA Report the following day

Trayvon was 158 pounds and 5'11. ME report.

Those are official reports.

It amazes me that some people think anything but the official medical reports are going to be used to record these crucial measurements.


z-weight_zpsb3eae6a5.jpg
 
Paperview said:
George was 204 pounds and measured 5'7.5" PA Report the following day

Trayvon was 158 pounds and 5'11. ME report.

Those are official reports.

It amazes me that some people think anything but the official medical reports are going to be used to record these crucial measurements.


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y221/who007/z-weight_zpsb3eae6a5.jpg[/IMG[/QUOTE]:doh
The police report says Trayvon was 6 feet. That is an official report also. Or did you not know that?

Secondly, the family knows him to be taller.

Do you know how a dead body measures differently than a live body?

His brother has said he was 6'2".
Are you saying his brother didn't know how tall he was?

And his family has said he was
But his family told CBS News that he was 6' 2" and between 140-150 pounds.
[url=http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57407115-504083/trayvon-martin-shooting-what-do-we-know-/]Trayvon Martin shooting: What do we know? - Crimesider - CBS News[/url]


Now here is the thing.
So put your thinking cap on, because this is a "what if?".

If the discrepancy comes up in trial, and is disputed.
And it gets explained that a dead body can measure differently.
And then the jury is presented with what the family has said, [SIZE=1](he is 6'2")[/SIZE], and lets say, a 7/11 video of Trayvon leaving the store showing that he is taller than the 6" foot measurement.
[IMG]http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii500/Ex-convict/711-door.jpg

Just what in the world do you think the Jury is going to believe?
a.) Official reports which can contain errors?
b.) Or their own eyes, supported by what the family has said?

I will tell you what I think they will believe.
b.) Their own eyes.
Click to expand...
 
Excon said:
:doh
The police report says Trayvon was 6 feet. That is an official report also. Or did you not know that?

Secondly, the family knows him to be taller.

Do you know how a dead body measures differently than a live body?

His brother has said he was 6'2".
Are you saying his brother didn't know how tall he was?

And his family has said he was
But his family told CBS News that he was 6' 2" and between 140-150 pounds.
Trayvon Martin shooting: What do we know? - Crimesider - CBS News


Now here is the thing.
So put your thinking cap on, because this is a "what if?".

If the discrepancy comes up in trial, and is disputed.
And it gets explained that a dead body can measure differently.
And then the jury is presented with what the family has said, (he is 6'2"), and lets say, a 7/11 video of Trayvon leaving the store showing that he is taller than the 6" foot measurement.
711-door.jpg


Just what in the world do you think the Jury is going to believe?
a.) Official reports which can contain errors?
b.) Or their own eyes, supported by what the family has said?

I will tell you what I think they will believe.
b.) Their own eyes.
Click to expand...


That was brilliant

Well said
 
Here's how I think it went down.

Zimmerman was driving around and saw a black man in a hoodie and assumed he was a criminal. (Mistake)
Zimmerman got out of his truck to follow TM with the intent of holding him for the police based on his assertion that they always get away. (Mistake)
Zimmerman reached TM as he rounded the corner and confronted him. Words are exchanged, much like the witnesses who heard them states.
Zimmerman, not getting the deference he wanted from TM, grabbed him and got clocked for it. They wrestle for a bit and Zimmerman gets his head banged on the concrete during the struggle.
Zimmerman gets his gun out and TM, fearful, screams for help. Enraged by the fight, the punch to the nose and the feeling of power, Zimmerman shoots TM.

****

TM on the phone with some girl he was probably trying to get with.
TM saw Zimmerman following him and became concerned, telling DeeDee what was going on.
TM decided to run for a bit.
TM, realizing this doesn't sound cool, decided he was going to stop running and act tough. (Mistake)
TM slows down enough for quickly incoming Zimmerman to catch up and decided to confront the man who's now on foot and approaching. (Mistake)
TM exchanges words with Zimmerman who grabs him, causing him to drop his phone. In response, he clocks Zimmerman. (Bad choice, but reasonable)
TM gets into a wrestling match with Zimmerman (cause he now feels pretty good about his chances after hitting Zimmerman). They separate and Martin quickly realizes just how dangerous Zimmerman is as a gun appears.
TM, terrified, screams for his life to no avail and is shot dead.
 
Excon said:
:doh
The police report says Trayvon was 6 feet. That is an official report also. Or did you not know that?

Secondly, the family knows him to be taller.

Do you know how a dead body measures differently than a live body?

His brother has said he was 6'2".
Are you saying his brother didn't know how tall he was?

And his family has said he was
But his family told CBS News that he was 6' 2" and between 140-150 pounds.
Trayvon Martin shooting: What do we know? - Crimesider - CBS News


Now here is the thing.
So put your thinking cap on, because this is a "what if?".

If the discrepancy comes up in trial, and is disputed.
And it gets explained that a dead body can measure differently.
And then the jury is presented with what the family has said, (he is 6'2"), and lets say, a 7/11 video of Trayvon leaving the store showing that he is taller than the 6" foot measurement.
711-door.jpg


Just what in the world do you think the Jury is going to believe?
a.) Official reports which can contain errors?
b.) Or their own eyes, supported by what the family has said?

I will tell you what I think they will believe.
b.) Their own eyes.
Click to expand...


LOL. Funniest thing I've read all week. Hat tip to you for making me chuckle.
 
Excon said:
:doh
The police report says Trayvon was 6 feet. That is an official report also. Or did you not know that?

Secondly, the family knows him to be taller.

Do you know how a dead body measures differently than a live body?
Click to expand...
Are you serious here? Bones don't shrink after you're dead.

His brother has said he was 6'2".
Are you saying his brother didn't know how tall he was?
Click to expand...
Or assumed his height based on his eyes and him wearing sneakers that add an inch just in the support added to the heel.

And his family has said he was
But his family told CBS News that he was 6' 2" and between 140-150 pounds.
Click to expand...
So scales and measuring tape is less accurate than a person's eyes? Is that what you're going with here?

Now here is the thing.
So put your thinking cap on, because this is a "what if?".

If the discrepancy comes up in trial, and is disputed.
And it gets explained that a dead body can measure differently.
And then the jury is presented with what the family has said, (he is 6'2"), and lets say, a 7/11 video of Trayvon leaving the store showing that he is taller than the 6" foot measurement.

Just what in the world do you think the Jury is going to believe?
a.) Official reports which can contain errors?
b.) Or their own eyes, supported by what the family has said?

I will tell you what I think they will believe.
b.) Their own eyes.
Click to expand...
There's a reason doctor's use instruments to measure weight and height instead of eyeballing it.
 
Could someone possibly explain to me what the relevance is between Trayvon being 5'11 and Trayvon being 5'12 aka 6'? I'm amazed how heated the back and forth is for something that I can't see having any significant relevance. Is either side trying to suggest that one inch somehow greatly influences the situation? Or is this a simply a symptom of what appears to be two sides just ideologically opposed on this issue that it's transcended actually giving a damn about the case, facts, innonce/guilt, etc and has just instead got to "I MUST SHOW THE OTHER SIDE IS WRONG!!!!!11!!!"
 
No difference as long as poor Martin was over 5'11 which demonstrates that he was not a child or young boy but a large 17 year old fully capable of inflicting damage on the small statured Zimmerman.
 
How exactly does "5'11" indicate a "child or young buy" but 6" indicate "not a child or young boy"?

Is there suddenly a definition of maturity and age that I'm not aware of that states "Thou must not be beneath 72 inches tall and declare onself a man!"? Am I demonstrating I AM a child or young boy because I'm 5'5"?

Is he somehow significantly more capable of "inflicting damage" on Zimmerman if he's 6'0" instead of 5'11"?
 
Tettsuo said:
Are you serious here? Bones don't shrink after you're dead.
Click to expand...
Are you serious? Who said that here? Did you say that?
I believe I made it clear that there are two Official records that are in dispute.
Do you dispute that?
I also made it clear that his own family members say he was taller. Do you dispute that?

I believe I also made it clear that it is possible to show someones height from video cameras and that it would be up to a jury to decided. Do you dispute that?


Tettsuo said:
Or assumed his height based on his eyes and him wearing sneakers that add an inch just in the support added to the heel.
Click to expand...
A whole inch huh? 5'11" vs 6'2". Hmmmm? A whole inch.
iLOL


Tettsuo said:
There's a reason doctor's use instruments to measure weight and height instead of eyeballing it.
Click to expand...
And yet one of the professionals got it wrong. Go figure huh?

If the defense shows ™ walking past a measurable gradient like the one on the 7/11 doors and it shows the top of his head passes the 6 foot mark, what do you think the jury will believe?
Their own eyes seeing he was taller than 6 feet, or an autopsy report saying he was 5'11"? Or did you not understand the question the first time?
 
Tettsuo said:
Here's how I think it went down.

Zimmerman was driving around and saw a black man in a hoodie and assumed he was a criminal. (Mistake)
Zimmerman got out of his truck to follow TM with the intent of holding him for the police based on his assertion that they always get away. (Mistake)
Zimmerman reached TM as he rounded the corner and confronted him. Words are exchanged, much like the witnesses who heard them states.
Zimmerman, not getting the deference he wanted from TM, grabbed him and got clocked for it. They wrestle for a bit and Zimmerman gets his head banged on the concrete during the struggle.
Zimmerman gets his gun out and TM, fearful, screams for help. Enraged by the fight, the punch to the nose and the feeling of power, Zimmerman shoots TM.

****

TM on the phone with some girl he was probably trying to get with.
TM saw Zimmerman following him and became concerned, telling DeeDee what was going on.
TM decided to run for a bit.
TM, realizing this doesn't sound cool, decided he was going to stop running and act tough. (Mistake)
TM slows down enough for quickly incoming Zimmerman to catch up and decided to confront the man who's now on foot and approaching. (Mistake)
TM exchanges words with Zimmerman who grabs him, causing him to drop his phone. In response, he clocks Zimmerman. (Bad choice, but reasonable)
TM gets into a wrestling match with Zimmerman (cause he now feels pretty good about his chances after hitting Zimmerman). They separate and Martin quickly realizes just how dangerous Zimmerman is as a gun appears.
TM, terrified, screams for his life to no avail and is shot dead.
Click to expand...
And the evidence says what you think is wrong.
 
When it doubt, follow the gun. In situations like this its unlikely that's its brought into or remenbered later and not sooner. When someone is confronted face to face while being a concealed carrier the gun IMMEDIATELY dictates the action. So again to answer the question, follow the gun. 40 or so feet from the T and untold numbers of yards from Zimmerman's truck was the gun.
 
tashatexas77048 said:
When it doubt, follow the gun. In situations like this its unlikely that's its brought into or remenbered later and not sooner. When someone is confronted face to face while being a concealed carrier the gun IMMEDIATELY dictates the action. So again to answer the question, follow the gun. 40 or so feet from the T and untold numbers of yards from Zimmerman's truck was the gun.
Click to expand...
Surrrreee! Which is why Zimmerman called the police, didn't want to make contact, screamed for help while on his back, only to then finally only shoot only once.
 
Excon said:
Surrrreee! Which is why Zimmerman called the police, didn't want to make contact, screamed for help while on his back, only to then finally only shoot only once.
Click to expand...

Trayvon Martin screamed for help aa well.

Zimmerman only exited his vehicle in pursuit BECAUSE of the gun. Any concealed carrier who carries even to the grocery store is lying when they say the gun was an afterthought. No one fails to remember a gun when face to face in the dark with a perceived criminal. No one. Follow the gun.
 
tashatexas77048 said:
Trayvon Martin screamed for help aa well.

Zimmerman only exited his vehicle in pursuit BECAUSE of the gun. Any concealed carrier who carries even to the grocery store is lying when they say the gun was an afterthought. No one fails to remember a gun when face to face in the dark with a perceived criminal. No one. Follow the gun.
Click to expand...

Zimmerman: "It wasn't my gun, it wasn't his gun, it was the gun."

Turns out it was Shellies gun.
 
tashatexas77048 said:
Trayvon Martin screamed for help aa well.
Click to expand...
No he didn't.
He may have been telling at Zimmerman but he was not screaming for help as well.

tashatexas77048 said:
Zimmerman only exited his vehicle in pursuit BECAUSE of the gun. Any concealed carrier who carries even to the grocery store is lying when they say the gun was an afterthought. No one fails to remember a gun when face to face in the dark with a perceived criminal. No one. Follow the gun.
Click to expand...
Is that what you think?
That's nice.

Do you often make things up and state the as fact?




Paperview said:
Zimmerman: "It wasn't my gun, it wasn't his gun, it was the gun."

Turns out it was Shellies gun.
Click to expand...
It was a gun. And your comments are irrelevant.
 
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Excon said:
No he didn't.
He may have been telling at Zimmerman but he was not screaming for help as well.


Is that what you think?
That's nice.

Do you often make things up and state the as fact?




It was a gun. And your comments are irrelevant.
Click to expand...

Four voice analysts have determined that Martin yelled for help. What is your specific professional training that enables you to be more experienced in voice analysis than even the FBI who could not determine who said what?

The GUN dictates all action in this scenario. Not a soul alives carries for this particular reason alone, and carries everywhere, straps on the gun a few minutes before an encounter starts then FORGETS they have their lifeline until a few seconds before they use it. I would almost be inclined to believe Zimmerman if not for the fact that EVERY part of his story is self-serving. He has lied about even arguing with Martin when NEARLY ALL THE WITNESSES from DeeDee on down heard two males voices exchange harsh words before the altercation started. So hear is a man who tells dispatch "this guys got something in his waist band" yet he comes face to face with him takes his eyes off of him after watching him intently for several minutes and then forgets he has a gun? Complete bull crap.

And please tell us about the experts hired by the defense to say Martin never called for help. They don't exist? I suggest then that you stop making statements with no proof. There is evidence that Martin screamed for help. If you admit that he screamed ANYTHING then he was not telling Zimmerman to shut up and covering his mouth. Whats the purpose of trying to kill someone covertly in open space with your bare hands, while you are screaming yourself? Trayvon screamed for his life because THE GUN was not an afterthought.
 
In addition to following the gun you should also keep in mind that under no circumstances would a former26 year old, in shape, former bouncer, criminal justice major, MMA self defense studied and trained, police officer applicant and neighborhood watch CAPTAIN/BOARD MEMBER forget that he is armed and allow a 50 pound lighter TEENAGER to put him into any position of real danger where his own gun could be used on him. He could manipulate Martin like a toy and always come out on top which is exactly what happened. He was so unscathed that he didn't require a single stitch and his clothes were so pristine it looked like he had actually went to Target. Follow the gun. The screams will lead you to the gun.
 
tashatexas77048 said:
Four voice analysts have determined that Martin yelled for help.
Click to expand...
Which have been discredited on multiple levels. Duh!


tashatexas77048 said:
What is your specific professional training that enables you to be more experienced in voice analysis than even the FBI who could not determine who said what?
Click to expand...
Strange how you say the above and then follow with this.
Really strange.

What is also strange is that you apparently haven't been paying attention.
The above you speak of, was supposedly (cough), scientific analysis.
Which has nothing to do with the jury being able to hear with their own ears.
Or didn't you know that?

The jury will hear that ™'s voice is lower/deeper than Zimmerman's.
Zimmerman was the one in fear for his life and receiving the injuries. Showing it was him.
Zimmerman was on his back while receiving many of those injuries. Showing it was him.
It sounds like Zimmerman. Which the jury will be able to hear. Showing it was him.


tashatexas77048 said:
The GUN dictates all action in this scenario. Not a soul alives carries for this particular reason alone, and carries everywhere, straps on the gun a few minutes before an encounter starts then FORGETS they have their lifeline until a few seconds before they use it. I would almost be inclined to believe Zimmerman if not for the fact that EVERY part of his story is self-serving. He has lied about even arguing with Martin when NEARLY ALL THE WITNESSES from DeeDee on down heard two males voices exchange harsh words before the altercation started. So hear is a man who tells dispatch "this guys got something in his waist band" yet he comes face to face with him takes his eyes off of him after watching him intently for several minutes and then forgets he has a gun?
Click to expand...
There you go making up "complete bull crap" again.


tashatexas77048 said:
And please tell us about the experts hired by the defense to say Martin never called for help. They don't exist? I suggest then that you stop making statements with no proof. There is evidence that Martin screamed for help. If you admit that he screamed ANYTHING then he was not telling Zimmerman to shut up and covering his mouth. Whats the purpose of trying to kill someone covertly in open space with your bare hands, while you are screaming yourself? Trayvon screamed for his life because THE GUN was not an afterthought.
Click to expand...
As you are the one making crap up, I would suggest you stop.
And I have already stated that Zimmerman said ™ was yelling at him in his approach. How is that not consistent with what you say DeeDee said? Huh? Yeah, that's right.
And ™ was not screaming for his life or nearly as loud as Zimmerman was. So your "Whats the purpose" argument fails.
He was trying to silence Zimmerman as he did not want to draw attention to his attack.
While Zimmerman of course wanted help, was screaming for help, and asked John for help.

And then of course we have a witness.
Excon said:
He most likely was cursing and threatening Zimmerman.

We already know that a witness says they heard voices, one of which was loud aggressive and dominant.
And another that yelled for help and had yelped, which was not the dominant voice.

And we know who was on the bottom yelling for help sharon. It was Zimmerman.
As the person on top being the aggressor and dominant person assaulting Zimmerman would not be yelling for help.
Click to expand...
 
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