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State voice experts may be using phony science

JackFrost said:
Which is why the defense wants to prevent all audio experts from testifying...:lamo
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Maybe in order to prevent another OJ type court room circus and another miscarriage of justice that will send a man to jail based on a bunch of bogus theories... Anyone with a lick of common sense knows it was Zimmerman who was screaming, but that of course makes absolutely no difference to people like you who deem their agenda and idealogical beliefs to be more important than the truth.
 
Grim17 said:
Maybe in order to prevent another OJ type court room circus and another miscarriage of justice that will send a man to jail based on a bunch of bogus theories... Anyone with a lick of common sense knows it was Zimmerman who was screaming, but that of course makes absolutely no difference to people like you who deem their agenda and idealogical beliefs to be more important than the truth.
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1. I believe this is a circus, perpetuated by the Zimmerman Defense
2. Justice is the thing Zimmerman most fears, as can be seen by his weight gain
3. My only agenda here is to debate whether George Zimmerman will be found guilty or not-guilty
 
JackFrost said:
1. I believe this is a circus, perpetuated by the Zimmerman Defense
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Of course you do. Which totally flys in the face of the evidence that this circus was started and perpetuated by race baiters such as Crump and Sharpton.



JackFrost said:
2. Justice is the thing Zimmerman most fears, as can be seen by his weight gain
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That is what you choose to see. Which just shows your bias as his weight can be from other factors. Factors that you wish to disregard in favor of your preconceived bias.


JackFrost said:
3. My only agenda here is to debate whether George Zimmerman will be found guilty or not-guilty
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So you say.
The facts speak otherwise.
 
JackFrost said:
1. I believe this is a circus, perpetuated by the Zimmerman Defense
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Yet you would gladly ignore what was determined about that audio by what is considered by most to be the #1 crime lab in the world, and support unproven, if not totally bogus claims that contradict the FBI... One of those people is also the developer of the so called "technology" that has a lot of money to gain with the publicity of his claims.

2. Justice is the thing Zimmerman most fears, as can be seen by his weight gain
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Based on the evidence at hand, you have that totally backward... It's the miscarriage of justice he has to fear.

3. My only agenda here is to debate whether George Zimmerman will be found guilty or not-guilty
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That's obviously false, based of the fact you have ignored the plain, obvious evidence that's available, and have instead clung to anything that supports his guilt, no matter how far of a stretch or how much imagination is required.
 
JackFrost said:
Which is why the defense wants to prevent all audio experts from testifying...:lamo
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Funny how you totally ignored the evidence in the posted video, and instead decided to just quote that small portion that was from discussing what the video contained.

Well here is the video for you to review.


What do you think about the neighbors being able to identify it as being Zimmerman?
What do you think about Trayvon's (cough) bother not being sure, just like his dad? That is until Crump became involved. Doh!

Like I said. Of course it was Zimmerman.
 
Grim17 said:
Yet you would gladly ignore what was determined about that audio by what is considered by most to be the #1 crime lab in the world, and support unproven, if not totally bogus claims that contradict the FBI... One of those people is also the developer of the so called "technology" that has a lot of money to gain with the publicity of his claims.



Based on the evidence at hand, you have that totally backward... It's the miscarriage of justice he has to fear.



That's obviously false, based of the fact you have ignored the plain, obvious evidence that's available, and have instead clung to anything that supports his guilt, no matter how far of a stretch or how much imagination is required.
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Where is the FBI evidence? Post it.
 
Excon said:
Funny how you totally ignored the evidence in the posted video, and instead decided to just quote that small portion that was from discussing what the video contained.

Well here is the video for you to review.


What do you think about the neighbors being able to identify it as being Zimmerman?
What do you think about Trayvon's (cough) bother not being sure, just like his dad? That is until Crump became involved. Doh!

Like I said. Of course it was Zimmerman.
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I disagree based upon the most recent defense motion to prevent all audio/voice experts from testifying.
 
JackFrost said:
I disagree based upon the most recent defense motion to prevent all audio/voice experts from testifying.
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WTF?
Where do you get this "all" **** from?
Did you even read the motion?

And just how does that have to do with what I asked?

What do you think about the neighbors being able to identify it as being Zimmerman?
What do you think about Trayvon's (cough) bother not being sure, just like his dad? That is until Crump became involved. Doh!​
 
JackFrost said:
Where is the FBI evidence? Post it.
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The FBI determined that the audio recording of the screams were of too poor a quality to analyse, therefore can not used to determine who they came from.
 
Excon said:
WTF?
Where do you get this "all" **** from?
Did you even read the motion?

And just how does that have to do with what I asked?

What do you think about the neighbors being able to identify it as being Zimmerman?
What do you think about Trayvon's (cough) bother not being sure, just like his dad? That is until Crump became involved. Doh!​
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1. The neighbors were told by SPD it was Zimmerman.

2. The same with Zimmerman's statement "it doesn't even sound like me".
 
Grim17 said:
The FBI determined that the audio recording of the screams were of too poor a quality to analyse, therefore can not used to determine who they came from.
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I am talking about the evidence which can be used in court. FBI case file or something similar? Post it.
 
JackFrost said:
Run along then:lol:
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Not before again stating the obvious... That you will endorse and support any evidence that props up your beliefs, with no regaurd for it's accuracy...

Now you run along.
 
JackFrost said:
1. The neighbors were told by SPD it was Zimmerman.
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Prove it.
Those neighbors identified it as him. That is the current evidence. So prove otherwise.
And secondly, in the one interview that was shown, it was because he was familiar with Zimmerman's voice, not because he was told it was him screaming.


JackFrost said:
2. The same with Zimmerman's statement "it doesn't even sound like me".
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Doh! :doh
iLOL
Really?
You are going to try and pull that **** now? You already know that isn't even the same thing. And yet here you are espousing said bs. Go figure. Sure sign that you have lost all credibility in this discussion.

Both the dad and the brother have basically stated it wasn't a family member's voice that they were familiar with, that is until Crump became involved.

Which clearly is not the same as a person saying that their own recorded voice doesn't sound like them.
Which is scientifically explainable and a norm.


It is very sad that Traybots are so biased that they ignore said evidence, and can not see that their doing so is a sign of a deep bias.
 
Grim17 said:
Not before again stating the obvious... That you will endorse and support any evidence that props up your beliefs, with no regaurd for it's accuracy...

Now you run along.
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What evidence have I supported that is inaccurate? And when have I continued to support said inaccurate evidence to support my agenda?

I do not expect you to answer these questions, as you will most likely run or dodge when called out:lol:
 
JackFrost said:
I am talking about the evidence which can be used in court. FBI case file or something similar? Post it.
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That information was turned over to the state in a three page report and was reported in the media.

Special Prosecutor Angela Corey released two voice samples Zimmerman gave to authorities.

In them, he can be heard repeatedly shouting "Help" and "Help me."

The samples were taken so FBI audio experts could try to determine whether the voice heard screaming for help in the background of a 911 call belonged to Zimmerman or 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, on the night the teen was killed.

...

However, the FBI experts who did the voice comparison issued a 3-page report on their findings and indicated, "Voice comparison is not possible for the designated voices due to extreme stress and unsuitable audio quality."

George Zimmerman voice samples released​

You must have also forgotten that those other so-called-experts methods were criticized by other experts.
And that we have already discussed that.


Excon said:
buck said:
I guess if the FBI wasn't good enough for you... Here is another one:

Voice forensics experts cast doubt on Orlando Sentinel analysis of Trayvon Martin 911 tape | The Daily Caller

Dr. James Wayman, a San Jose State University expert in the field of speech science, told The Daily Caller that he questions the grounds on which Owen based his analysis.

Wayman also said he would be willing to testify against the admissibility of Owen’s findings on the grounds that they don’t meet the criteria required for evidence in federal courts.
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...

The problem, he said, is that the two voice samples were recorded in difficult acoustic conditions over different cell phones.

“Even if we were to have Mr. Zimmerman recreate the scream under identical conditions with the same cell phone,” Wayman explained, “it would be difficult to attribute the scream to him without a sample of a similar scream from Mr. Martin under the same conditions. This is clearly not possible.”
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Dr. Philip Rose of the Australian National University told TheDC that scientific experts refer to Primeau’s method as “naïve voice recognition.” His influential 2002 book Forensic Speaker Identification draws a major distinction between naïve and “technical forensics” voice recognition.

“Naïve voice recognition is so prone to error that it is acknowledged that it is worthless as evidence,” Rose said via email.
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And speaking of Owen’s findings, another industry insider said that “a legitimate biometrics expert would likely refute the contentions” and suggests that these were “incendiary publicity plays.”
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I like what it said on page two of that article.

Dr. Philip Rose of the Australian National University told TheDC that scientific experts refer to Primeau’s method as “naïve voice recognition.” His influential 2002 book Forensic Speaker Identification draws a major distinction between naïve and “technical forensics” voice recognition.

“Naïve voice recognition is so prone to error that it is acknowledged that it is worthless as evidence,” Rose said via email.

...

And speaking of Owen’s findings, another industry insider said that “a legitimate biometrics expert would likely refute the contentions” and suggests that these were “incendiary publicity plays.”

Voice forensics experts cast doubt on Orlando Sentinel analysis of Trayvon Martin 911 tape | The Daily Caller​


What is sad, is that the Trayvon supporters have known from the get that the analysis was hokey and discredited by what the examiners themselves say they require to do a proper analysis.
Yet they still cling to it as if it means something.

And then an FBI examiner comes along and says;

"Critical listening and digital signal analysis further revealed that the screaming voice of the 911 call is of insufficient voice quality and duration to conduct a meaningful voice comparison with any other voice samples," concluded Kenneth Marr, a specialist with the FBI's digital evidence laboratory in Quantico, Virginia.
Trayvon evidence fails to answer who screamed for help | Reuters​
And they still cling. :doh


And yet they still cling when other experts say the analysis was crap.
And they can't see their bias?




Excon said:
buck said:
BTW, they aren't saying they are 90% certain it wasn't George. They were saying to determine who it is, the need a 90% match on the voice... They only matched on 50%, if I recall correctly..
The software compared that audio to Zimmerman's voice. It returned a 48 percent match. Owen said to reach a positive match with audio of this quality, he'd expect higher than 90 percent
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Doesn't matter what either one found.
Their analysis' are crap. And have been shown to be for some time.
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JackFrost said:
What evidence have I supported that is inaccurate? And when have I continued to support said inaccurate evidence to support my agenda?

I do not expect you to answer these questions, as you will most likely run or dodge when called out:lol:
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If you support the introduction to testify, experts who claim that it was not Zimmerman who screamed, then you are in fact supporting inaccurate evidence. That's because the FBI, who have the top forensic crime lab in the world already determined that the quality of that recording was not good enough to be analyzed.


You want another example of your dishonesty... Take what was quoted from you above...

2. The same with Zimmerman's statement "it doesn't even sound like me".
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You use that quote from Zimmerman as some sort of admission from him that he wasn't the one screaming, which is pure BS and you know it. He didn't say "that's not me screaming" or anything of the kind. He merely said that the poor audio recording of his screams, didn't sound to him like what he imagined his screams would sound like. That's because as you know, everybody's recorded voice sounds different than how they hear themselves.


Anything else?
 
Grim17 said:
If you support the introduction to testify, experts who claim that it was not Zimmerman who screamed, then you are in fact supporting inaccurate evidence. That's because the FBI, who have the top forensic crime lab in the world already determined that the quality of that recording was not good enough to be analyzed.


You want another example of your dishonesty... Take what was quoted from you above...



You use that quote from Zimmerman as some sort of admission from him that he wasn't the one screaming, which is pure BS and you know it. He didn't say "that's not me screaming" or anything of the kind. He merely said that the poor audio recording of his screams, didn't sound to him like what he imagined his screams would sound like. That's because as you know, everybody's recorded voice sounds different than how they hear themselves.


Anything else?
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You make the rules now?

What is your title, Chief Justice Grim17?

How are we to debate this topic, when you can click "post" and dictate United States Law? :lol:
 
JackFrost said:
You make the rules now?

What is your title, Chief Justice Grim17?

How are we to debate this topic, when you can click "post" and dictate United States Law? :lol:
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I think it is pretty clear what he said.
I also think you know he is correct.

It is clear that those two so-called-experts analysis have been discredited.
You know that.

So if you support their analysis' being introduce, you are in fact supporting inaccurate evidence.

Couldn't be more clear than that.
 
Excon said:
I think it is pretty clear what he said.
I also think you know he is correct.

It is clear that those two so-called-experts analysis have been discredited.
You know that.

So if you support their analysis' being introduce, you are in fact supporting inaccurate evidence.

Couldn't be more clear than that.
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In the media circus...yes:lamo

In a court of law...no;)
 
JackFrost said:
In the media circus...yes:lamo

In a court of law...no;)
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Wrong.
Discredited by what they themselves say is required to properly analyze.
Discredited by by other experts.
Discredited by the FBI saying it was insufficient to analyze.

Those are in no way the media.
The media is who hired the fools for story purposes to begin with.

They have been discredited.

And yet you cling. :doh
 
https://www.facebook.com/BenjaminCrumpJustice?ref=stream

So Omara is scared of the 911 scream tape. He is trying to get a hearing on the scream tape because he does not want anyone testifying as to the screams and their description. He claims the state and the defense witnesses can not agree which is a load of crap.

1) Witness 1 - says it was a kid making weird noises
2) Witness 2 - says she saw and heard a chase and someone screaming "No No No" which was ended by a gun shot
3) Mary Cutcher and her roommate testify that a kid was squealing in pain and making strange noises, which was ended by a gunshot. They saw Fogen simply rise to his feet off the victim, Trayvon, and then appeared uninjured and worried as to what he just did.
4) Witness 18 states that Fogen is the aggressor and that she saw the whole thing from the confrontation onward. She states that she heard what is described as a young boy screaming for help and which was ended by a gunshot. She saw the defendant simply rise to his feet off the victim, Trayvon. W18 also says she can say for certain how the struggle moved as she saw the whole thing and can pinpoint it out.
5) Witness 3 says she saw a man in a white shirt on top of another person and she heard screams for help which were ended with a gun shot. She says that after she saw Fogen's mugshot that she believes that Fogen was on top of Trayvon when the shot occurred.
6) Witness 6 first stated on a 911 call that he saw wrestling and then the black guy was shot. He then later claimed when interviewed by police, he thought he saw a man in red underneath the black guy, like in MMA, and he assumed the man in red was screaming. When FDLE interviewed him again, w6 then claimed he was not sure who was screaming anymore, and he believes now that Trayvon was just trying to pin Fogen on the ground and that Trayvon could have been screaming for help. The witness sticks to his final story of the pinning as he says he heard no striking noises. There is also no DNA transfer whatsoever on Trayvon's hands, arms, sleeves, or cuffs, which scientifically says Trayvon never attacked Fogen like he claims.
7) w11 captured the screams on a 911 call. The screams sound like a kid screaming for help and yelling "Get Off", which was ended by a gunshot.
8) Jeremy testifies that he heard screams for help which were ended by a gunshot.
9) Experts have testified that it is not Fogen screaming for help
10) Fogen, when he listens to the tape, states that the screams do not sound like him.
11) Sybrina testifies that it does indeed sound like her son.

It sounds pretty much in agreement that it was either Trayvon screaming for help...
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He Yelled Out For Help...
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0_kgAWSzJo&feature=player_embedded

~Recording #3 @3:51 mark~
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George Zimmerman’s Statements To Sanford PD [Audio] | AxiomAmnesia.com Presents They Always Get Away: Trayvon Martin/George Zimmerman Documents, Photos, Videos, Audio, and Articles

Also, has the defense hired any audio experts?
 
Excon said:
Wrong.
Discredited by what they themselves say is required to properly analyze.
Discredited by by other experts.
Discredited by the FBI saying it was insufficient to analyze.

Those are in no way the media.
The media is who hired the fools for story purposes to begin with.

They have been discredited.

And yet you cling. :doh
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Discredited where again? Oh right in the media:lol:
 
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