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Zimmerman Defense Motion For Sanctions Against The State

buck said:
Yes, the fact that Trayvon ran and ran until he was too tired to run anymore (according to Dee) and yet made it just a bit more then 100 feet is certainly not evidence that Trayvon was returning home. That Trayvon was still near the "T" after all that running (not far from where he first disapeared), certainly is not evidence that he was on his way home. The fact that if he was truly returning home, he would have been there well before Zimmerman even hung up the 911 call does not support that he was returning home. The only thing that supports him being on his way home is that DeeDee made that claim.



No, it sure doesn't. Zimmerman acknowledged the request of the dispatcher to stop following. The wind noise stopped.
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Alleging TM was heading home IMO means home from the 7-11. It's apparent TM never made it although some allege he did get back and then backtracked to the T area, but I don't know what evidence this opinion is based upon.

Just because TM never made it home doesn't dispute the fact he was heading home from the 7-11.
 
Simon W. Moon said:
You re-read where I said I had already re-read it.
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Ah, you need assistance to help you understand, correct?

How did W8 know or knew M was scared?
 
spanky said:
Alleging TM was heading home IMO means home from the 7-11. It's apparent TM never made it although some allege he did get back and then backtracked to the T area, but I don't know what evidence this opinion is based upon.

Just because TM never made it home doesn't dispute the fact he was heading home from the 7-11.
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i don't believe any of that is in dispute
what seems to be of concern is that martin did not continue on his route to the place he was staying
he instead appears to have returned to confront zimmerman instead of staying on that route to the residence
 
justabubba said:
i don't believe any of that is in dispute
what seems to be of concern is that martin did not continue on his route to the place he was staying
he instead appears to have returned to confront zimmerman instead of staying on that route to the residence
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There is the apparent and curious missing time in Z's chronology of the event. IMO TM did intend on running back to the condo but heard Z's car door open and decided to abort because he didn't want Z to know where he was staying. So he hides on someones porch, watches Z go east on the path and hears him talking to someone on the phone, probably police. Also IMO much more happened then Z indicates as he heads back west. I don't know if Z stops at the T and tries to spy TM somewhere down that N/S path, maybe he heard TM talking to DD. Maybe he headed down the path a ways, sees TM, decides he's too close for comfort and heads back N on the path. TM decides he's had enough of this guy following him and decides to confront him.

I also think the "arguing and struggle" was much more then Z says. As TM approaches Z maybe he decides to reach for his gun, or at least brandish it to get they guy to back off. But TM is too close now, he sees the gun and flight or fight kicks in and he grabs Z before he could pull it. They struggle down the path to the point where the shooting occurred. TM wrestles Z to the ground, they continue to struggle. It is possible the gun was out the whole time and that was what they were struggling over.

The blood patterns on Z's head indicate to me both the nose and head shots occurred at the very end of the fight. There is very little smearing of either and the head dribbles indicate Z was at first in a position where his head is somewhat up, then to a position of looking down.

In any event, that close to 3 minutes between the end of the NEN call and the shot on the 911 is going to have to be explained by both the Pross and Def.
 
JackFrost said:
Tarot cards.
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I think one of the easiest things the Pross will do is show TM was afraid of Z by his running and what he said to DD.
 
spanky said:
I think one of the easiest things the Pross will do is show TM was afraid of Z by his running and what he said to DD.
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How will they show that?

W8's subjective impression of what must have gone down is based on the hearsay

She saw nothing and was not there
 
ric27 said:
How will they show that?

W8's subjective impression of what must have gone down is based on the hearsay

She saw nothing and was not there
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You keep yapping about hearsay...what is it you are trying to argue? Hearsay evidence is inadmissible at trial?

W8's testimony, is in fact admissible at trial. So obviously, they will have her take the stand, give her testimony, and a jury will take it into consideration.

Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine
 
ric27 said:
How will they show that?

W8's subjective impression of what must have gone down is based on the hearsay

She saw nothing and was not there
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She heard a lot and ALL OF IT will be admissible under hearsay rules. If she's lying or has been coached, O'Mara will get to the bottom of it.
 
ric27 said:
Ah, you need assistance to help you understand, correct?
How did W8 know or knew M was scared?
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AFAICT, that's in one of the two sentences which come from W8.

My contention was that those two sentences were not the prosecution relying "heavily" on W* for the affidavit.
When you point out part of one of those two sentences, you don't actually further your argument that the prosecution relied "heavily" on her testimony.
At not as far as I can tell.

w/e
 
spanky said:
Alleging TM was heading home IMO means home from the 7-11. It's apparent TM never made it although some allege he did get back and then backtracked to the T area, but I don't know what evidence this opinion is based upon.
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Not in context of that paragraph it doesn't. The paragraph is indicating he was so scared that he was running home. He clearly was not running home, and the only evidence that they have of that is Dee's statement.

The location of T's body, the fact that Trayvon dispaeared near the T and still ended up there after running for a few minutes... All contradict her claim.

Just because TM never made it home doesn't dispute the fact he was heading home from the 7-11.
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It certainly disputes Dee's claim, as described in the affidavit, that he was so scared that he was running home.
 
is this damn thing ever going to go to trial?
 
buck said:
Not in context of that paragraph it doesn't. The paragraph is indicating he was so scared that he was running home. He clearly was not running home, and the only evidence that they have of that is Dee's statement.



It certainly disputes Dee's claim, as described in the affidavit, that he was so scared that he was running home.
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exactly, given the timeline and the distances involved...if TM was RUNNING home...he'd have been at home before GZ ever caught up with him. And if he was so scared that GZ was going to follow him home (the excuse some have given for why TM just didn't go home) why didn't he call the cops instead of his "girlfriend"
 
OscarB63 said:
exactly, given the timeline and the distances involved...if TM was RUNNING home...he'd have been at home before GZ ever caught up with him. And if he was so scared that GZ was going to follow him home (the excuse some have given for why TM just didn't go home) why didn't he call the cops instead of his "girlfriend"
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He could have almost crabbed walked home prior to Zimmerman even hanging up the phone with NEN. Yet, he was so scared that he was running home (according to the arresting affidavit) and managed to only make it about 100 feet until he was so tired he couldn't run anymore, at least according to Deedee.
 
buck said:
Not in context of that paragraph it doesn't. The paragraph is indicating he was so scared that he was running home. He clearly was not running home, and the only evidence that they have of that is Dee's statement.

The location of T's body, the fact that Trayvon dispaeared near the T and still ended up there after running for a few minutes... All contradict her claim.



It certainly disputes Dee's claim, as described in the affidavit, that he was so scared that he was running home.
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So where was he running to, initially?
 
spanky said:
So where was he running to, initially?
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Wherever it was, it was not home. Maybe he just wanted to get around the corner so he could find a spot to ambush. Just speculation on my part, obviously . But the only evidence they have of him running home in fright, is Dee's statement. The balance of evidence directly contradicts that.
 
buck said:
He could have almost crabbed walked home prior to Zimmerman even hanging up the phone with NEN. Yet, he was so scared that he was running home (according to the arresting affidavit) and managed to only make it about 100 feet until he was so tired he couldn't run anymore, at least according to Deedee.
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Do Z supporters here realize how devastating it is for his case that TM ran? To anywhere? And there is Z on the NEN call "He ran!".

Of course later it was "he skipped"... that also will come back to bite him.
 
buck said:
Wherever it was, it was not home. Maybe he just wanted to get around the corner so he could find a spot to ambush. Just speculation on my part, obviously . But the only evidence they have of him running home in fright, is Dee's statement. The balance of evidence directly contradicts that.
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If TM was going to ambush him it would have been during Z's first walk east down the pathway when his back was to him.
 
spanky said:
Do Z supporters here realize how devastating it is for his case that TM ran? To anywhere? And there is Z on the NEN call "He ran!".
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SO, let's do an exercise... If TM ran to find an ambush spot how exactly would that be devestating to Zimm?

If TM ran decided to double back and confront Zimm then knocked him down and went for his gun... How would that be devestating for Zimm's defense claim?

Regardless, TM clearly did not run outside of a few seconds... Until he got around the corner.. his running stopped at that point and something else occured. something other then what Dee stated and something other then outlined in the affidavit.
 
spanky said:
If TM was going to ambush him it would have been during Z's first walk east down the pathway when his back was to him.
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Zimm was on the phone and talking at that point.. So.. Not necessarily.
 
buck said:
SO, let's do an exercise... If TM ran to find an ambush spot how exactly would that be devestating to Zimm?

If TM ran decided to double back and confront Zimm then knocked him down and went for his gun... How would that be devestating for Zimm's defense claim?

Regardless, TM clearly did not run outside of a few seconds... Until he got around the corner.. his running stopped at that point and something else occured. something other then what Dee stated and something other then outlined in the affidavit.
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Ya, TM heard Z's car door open.
 
spanky said:
Ya, TM heard Z's car door open.
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No idea if he did or not. But regardless... TM was not running home in great fear for his life. He was doing something different.
 
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