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George Zimmerman judge OKs question: Who was the real Trayvon Martin?

spanky

spanky

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George Zimmerman judge OKs question: Who was the real Trayvon Martin? - CSMonitor.com


But on Friday, a new judge in the second-degree murder case against George Zimmerman, the 29-year-old volunteer watchman accused of profiling, accosting, and then murdering an unarmed Trayvon on Feb. 26, made a major ruling that could alter that image.

Circuit Court Judge Debra Nelson allowed, with limitations, defense attorneys to dig deep into Trayvon’s social media scribblings and school records to determine whether the boy had a violent streak that may have put Mr. Zimmerman into a self-defense stance.
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spanky said:
George Zimmerman judge OKs question: Who was the real Trayvon Martin? - CSMonitor.com
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I think that makes sense to me. Especially in a self-defense trial. At first, I thought, we're putting the victim on trial?? But who Martin was is a part of this. Previous altercations, whether or not he was arrested for violence, copped to violence (which I understand he did...something about a bus driver on social network).

"Is it character for Trayvon Martin to be an aggressor?" I think that's a fair question that deserves exploration.
 
The pross will attempt to paint TM as an angel, the def will be allowed to show he was not. If TM had a fascination with violence, as evidenced in the "Fight Club" vids, it will be allowed because one of the central questions at trial will be who threw the first punch.
 
spanky said:
The pross will attempt to paint TM as an angel, the def will be allowed to show he was not. If TM had a fascination with violence, as evidenced in the "Fight Club" vids, it will be allowed because one of the central questions at trial will be who threw the first punch.
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Having a fascination with Fight Club videos means nothing to an intelligent person.

Hell, I love-love-love Criminal Minds. Doesn't mean I'm a likely serial killer.

Actions. His actions. Those are what count.
 
MaggieD said:
I think that makes sense to me. Especially in a self-defense trial. At first, I thought, we're putting the victim on trial?? But who Martin was is a part of this. Previous altercations, whether or not he was arrested for violence, copped to violence (which I understand he did...something about a bus driver on social network).

"Is it character for Trayvon Martin to be an aggressor?" I think that's a fair question that deserves exploration.
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Last year I was a juror foreman on a rape case. After the trial in which the defendent was found guilty of rape we discovered the rapist underwent sex offender treatment as a teenager after he was accused of sexually harassing and inappropriately touching four girls in middle school. But we weren't allowed that information. It may have been due to his activity as a minor. It certainly would have made our jury decision easier.

So since Martin was a minor I don't know if they can release that information? Of course if they do that then they need to go through Zimmerman's past.
 
Crosscheck said:
Last year I was a juror foreman on a rape case. After the trial in which the defendent was found guilty of rape we discovered the rapist underwent sex offender treatment as a teenager after he was accused of sexually harassing and inappropriately touching four girls in middle school. But we weren't allowed that information. It may have been due to his activity as a minor. It certainly would have made our jury decision easier.

So since Martin was a minor I don't know if they can release that information? Of course if they do that then they need to go through Zimmerman's past.
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I just don't know the rules of law.

As for George Zimmerman's actions, I'm thinking if he doesn't take the stand, some of that information can't come in. I'm not sure, though. Also think there's a high likelihood he will take the stand. (I think, as far as past conduct is concerned? The defendant may have more rights than the victim.)
 
MaggieD said:
Having a fascination with Fight Club videos means nothing to an intelligent person.

Hell, I love-love-love Criminal Minds. Doesn't mean I'm a likely serial killer.

Actions. His actions. Those are what count.
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Motivation and state of mind will also count.
 
spanky said:
Motivation and state of mind will also count.
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I wonder what motive the state plans to prove. What motive did George Zimmerman have to kill Trayvon Martin? I guess they're going to try to prove he's a racist. And if they can prove that? Still. What motive did he have? I think that's going to be pretty difficult myself.
 
Crosscheck said:
Last year I was a juror foreman on a rape case. After the trial in which the defendent was found guilty of rape we discovered the rapist underwent sex offender treatment as a teenager after he was accused of sexually harassing and inappropriately touching four girls in middle school. But we weren't allowed that information. It may have been due to his activity as a minor. It certainly would have made our jury decision easier.

So since Martin was a minor I don't know if they can release that information? Of course if they do that then they need to go through Zimmerman's past.
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agreed
zimmerman's history and the information he populated on social sites should be fair game for the prosecution to present to the jury, someone who was not beyond being violent
 
MaggieD said:
I wonder what motive the state plans to prove. What motive did George Zimmerman have to kill Trayvon Martin? I guess they're going to try to prove he's a racist. And if they can prove that? Still. What motive did he have? I think that's going to be pretty difficult myself.
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I believe the pross will pursue a strategy of proving contributory negligence on Z's part, that his actions put TM in a state of fear and getting out of the vehicle and following him was the catalyst that initiated the confrontation. They won't have to prove Z is a racist just that he unfairly profiled TM because he was young, black and wearing a hoodie. They don't have to prove TM didn't start the fight (although I think they will try to cast doubt on Z's version of events), just that when it did start TM got the better of it and so Z pulled his weapon and shot.
 
justabubba said:
agreed
zimmerman's history and the information he populated on social sites should be fair game for the prosecution to present to the jury, someone who was not beyond being violent
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I'm not sure the judge will allow any of the to be entered at trial. Keep in mind it's Z who is on trial and the judge will be sensitive to anything that is more prejudicial than exculpatory.
 
spanky said:
The pross will attempt to paint TM as an angel, the def will be allowed to show he was not. If TM had a fascination with violence, as evidenced in the "Fight Club" vids, it will be allowed because one of the central questions at trial will be who threw the first punch.
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I wonder if they're going to allow the pros to delve into Z's past in a similar fashion.

He DID put his hands on someone in a bar (not relevant that it was a cop, really).

And he worked as a bouncer/event security. So it's possible he interacted with M in "bouncer mode". There were witnesses who heard angry voices.

Add that to the "failed cop" aspect and I don't know if I would want that if I was the defense.
 
MaggieD said:
I wonder what motive the state plans to prove. What motive did George Zimmerman have to kill Trayvon Martin? I guess they're going to try to prove he's a racist. And if they can prove that? Still. What motive did he have? I think that's going to be pretty difficult myself.
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The only thing I can think of would be that he profiled M as one of "the" punks/Goons that "always get away", and was determined to not allow it this time.

Some kind of "depraved mind" angle.
 
What if...? said:
The only thing I can think of would be that he profiled M as one of "the" punks/Goons that "always get away", and was determined to not allow it this time.

Some kind of "depraved mind" angle.
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I stopped getting involved in these threads after I made up my own mind about what happened:

George Zimmerman got out of his car to keep his eyes on Trayvon Martin until the police arrived. (That is something he will regret for the rest of his life.) I don't think he "chased" him . . . don't think he meant him harm. Somehow, they got face to face. When that happened, according to what George Zimmerman said, Trayvon Martin attacked him as he was reaching into his pocket to get his cellphone and call the police back. (That's a much shorter version...and most of it confirmed by TM's girlfriend....at least the scuffle part.)

I think it's likely that TM thought, when GZ was reaching for his cellphone, that he was reaching for a weapon. So TM attacked first.

Should GZ be convicted of second-degree murder for that? *Shrug* I personally don't think so. But I won't be on the jury.
 
MaggieD said:
I stopped getting involved in these threads after I made up my own mind about what happened:

George Zimmerman got out of his car to keep his eyes on Trayvon Martin until the police arrived. (That is something he will regret for the rest of his life.) I don't think he "chased" him . . . don't think he meant him harm. Somehow, they got face to face. When that happened, according to what George Zimmerman said, Trayvon Martin attacked him as he was reaching into his pocket to get his cellphone and call the police back. (That's a much shorter version...and most of it confirmed by TM's girlfriend....at least the scuffle part.)

I think it's likely that TM thought, when GZ was reaching for his cellphone, that he was reaching for a weapon. So TM attacked first.

Should GZ be convicted of second-degree murder for that? *Shrug* I personally don't think so. But I won't be on the jury.
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Personally I don't believe several of the things Z has stated, including TM reaching into his waistband, Z reaching into his pocket for the phone or TM reaching for his gun. They're all guilding the lily.

Z was a wannabee cop, a NW captain and he knew exactly all the correct buzz phrases and words to accomplish what he wanted people to think and believe, beginning with his 911 call.
 
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I like Dexter and Boardwalk Empire.

It doesn't mean I want to be a serial mass murderer who deals in alcohol.
 
Rainman05 said:
I like Dexter and Boardwalk Empire.

It doesn't mean I want to be a serial mass murderer who deals in alcohol.
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Did you officiate ritual killings of accused murderers in front of your mom's home recorded on phone camera's?
 
spanky said:
Personally I don't believe several of the things Z has stated, including TM reaching into his waistband, Z reaching into his pocket for the phone or TM reaching for his gun. They're all guilding the lily.

Z was a wannabee cop, a NW captain and he knew exactly all the correct buzz phrases and words to accomplish what he wanted people to think and believe, beginning with his 911 call.
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While I respect your opinion, it's not what you THINK, it's what the state can prove.
 
MaggieD said:
While I respect your opinion, it's not what you THINK, it's what the state can prove.
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On an internet chat site, it's what I think the state can prove.
 
MaggieD said:
I'm not familiar with what you're talking about. Link?
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My point it is, we're having a discussion on the internet, not trying a criminal offense in court.
 
Crosscheck said:
Last year I was a juror foreman on a rape case. After the trial in which the defendent was found guilty of rape we discovered the rapist underwent sex offender treatment as a teenager after he was accused of sexually harassing and inappropriately touching four girls in middle school. But we weren't allowed that information. It may have been due to his activity as a minor. It certainly would have made our jury decision easier.

So since Martin was a minor I don't know if they can release that information? Of course if they do that then they need to go through Zimmerman's past.
Click to expand...

Maybe not criminal records, but certainly FB posts could show propensity.
 
MaggieD said:
Right over the top of my noggin. Ha!
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What or who is your avatar? Reminds me of someone on TV or maybe the movies, can't place her.
 
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