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Why did Martin run?

spanky

spanky

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Simple enough.
 
That is never really discussed but is relevant.

1. Why did TM approach GZ the first time, then run seeing GZ on the phone?
2. Why did TM then double back at GZ after GZ got off the phone?

Neither of those are ever discussed on these topics. I've asked why before. They'll just divert to the same-same-same they post on every other topic.
 
joko104 said:
That is never really discussed but is relevant.

1. Why did TM approach GZ the first time, then run seeing GZ on the phone?
2. Why did TM then double back at GZ after GZ got off the phone?

Neither of those are ever discussed on these topics. I've asked why before. They'll just divert to the same-same-same they post on every other topic.
Click to expand...

Joko...I don't remember GZ saying the events happened like that when talking to the dispatcher. Did I miss something? Don't start throwing rocks at me. I don't have an opinion of guilt or innocence. Way too early for me to grasp.
 
spanky said:
Simple enough.
Click to expand...

I've distanced myself from M/Z threads, so I may be behind the curve. But I'll tell you this:

Zimmerman would have scared me if I were out walking in the dark at night. While I believe he was just trying to "keep eyes" on Martin, the appearance to Martin could easily have been that he was being stalked. I try to put my head into the head of a black teenager -- and I come up with, pure and simple, he was afraid.

EDIT: If you read this originally, before my edit, the first word was "Martin." WRONG!!! And edited to be what I meant to say.
 
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joko104 said:
That is never really discussed but is relevant.

1. Why did TM approach GZ the first time, then run seeing GZ on the phone?
2. Why did TM then double back at GZ after GZ got off the phone?

Neither of those are ever discussed on these topics. I've asked why before. They'll just divert to the same-same-same they post on every other topic.
Click to expand...

How could he have seen a cellphone in the dark in the rain through tinted windows when George stated he stood a car length away?
 
Removable Mind said:
Joko...I don't remember GZ saying the events happened like that when talking to the dispatcher. Did I miss something? Don't start throwing rocks at me. I don't have an opinion of guilt or innocence. Way too early for me to grasp.
Click to expand...

#1 yes, that was his police call as taped. TM coming towards GZ and GZ saying TM looked like he was trouble, then TM running - with the police asking GZ if he was following. That all recorded in GZ's phone call. The verbal and face-toface conflict came after GZ was off the phone.

Since it is entirely improbably that pudgy GZ could not have run down TM (TM clearly would have been too fast to catch), I think that makes #2 a logical conclusion, or at least a likelihood.
 
sharon said:
How could he have seen a cellphone in the dark in the rain through tinted windows when George stated he stood a car length away?
Click to expand...

I'm not going to respond until you make a final decision in your opinion whether it was "dark" and "raining" at that time or not. You've gone both ways on that.

Tinted window up? Cab light off? Door closed?
 
joko104 said:
#1 yes, that was his police call as taped. TM coming towards GZ and GZ saying TM looked like he was trouble, then TM running - with the police asking GZ if he was following. That all recorded in GZ's phone call. The verbal and face-toface conflict came after GZ was off the phone.

Since it is entirely improbably that pudgy GZ could not have run down TM (TM clearly would have been too fast to catch), I think that makes #2 a logical conclusion, or at least a likelihood.
Click to expand...

But the shooting happened a good ways from GZ's truck. GZ said that TM was checking him out while he was sitting in his truck...did he not?
 
MaggieD said:
I've distanced myself from M/Z threads, so I may be behind the curve. But I'll tell you this:

Zimmerman would have scared me if I were out walking in the dark at night. While I believe he was just trying to "keep eyes" on Martin, the appearance to Martin could easily have been that he was being stalked. I try to put my head into the head of a black teenager -- and I come up with, pure and simple, he was afraid.

EDIT: If you read this originally, before my edit, the first word was "Martin." WRONG!!! And edited to be what I meant to say.
Click to expand...

I think that would be accurate for you and what you would do, but don't really think you CAN put yourself into Martin's head, not without just asserting stereotypes on race and disregarding gender distinction.

You're not a male 6 foot tall, 17 year old football who would then approach that scary person face to face with "are you following me?" I think you would have gone into the house while dialing 911 since you had a cell phone in your hand. That Martin didn't do so challenges he was being motivated by fear. Fear also can cause people to turn to violence and may have done so for Martin. That - FEAR - of course, is GZ's self defense claim.
 
Removable Mind said:
But the shooting happened a good ways from GZ's truck. GZ said that TM was checking him out while he was sitting in his truck...did he not?
Click to expand...

Yes, and that GZ came towards him intimidatingly and then suddenly turned and ran.

GZ continued his conversation saying TM had disappeared and GZ got off the phone saying he'll phone back letting the police know exactly where to meet him. I think all logic says that TM was not then proceeding to home at that point or he would have been home. That GZ could not physically have run down TM if TM was fleeing.

So TM either 1.) stopped and waited for GZ or 2.) turned and approached GZ - with GZ now not on the phone. GZ was not on the phone when that happened.

So... back to the OP. WHY did TM initially approach GZ's truck while GZ was on the phone? Why did TM then suddenly turn and run out of sight? Why then, with GZ off the phone, did TM come back into the open waiting for GZ or to approach GZ?

There is no question that GZ was going along the sidewalk trying to see where TM ran off to as reason GZ was away from his truck. Trying to see where TM ran off to is not exactly chasing someone or even following, rather trying to observe.
 
joko104 said:
Yes, and that GZ came towards him intimidatingly and then suddenly turned and ran.

GZ continued his conversation saying TM had disappeared and GZ got off the phone saying he'll phone back letting the police know exactly where to meet him. I think all logic says that TM was not then proceeding to home at that point or he would have been home. That GZ could not physically have run down TM if TM was fleeing.

So TM either 1.) stopped and waited for GZ or 2.) turned and approached GZ - with GZ now not on the phone. GZ was not on the phone when that happened.

So... back to the OP. WHY did TM initially approach GZ's truck while GZ was on the phone? Why did TM then suddenly turn and run out of sight? Why then, with GZ off the phone, did TM come back into the open waiting for GZ or to approach GZ?

There is no question that GZ was going along the sidewalk trying to see where TM ran off to as reason GZ was away from his truck. Trying to see where TM ran off to is not exactly chasing someone or even following, rather trying to observe.
Click to expand...

Sorry, Joko. I'm pretty confused about the chain of events. I guess I need to re-listen to the 911 and review the video of him during a polygraph test. I hear what you are saying, but something seems out of place.
 
Removable Mind said:
Sorry, Joko. I'm pretty confused about the chain of events. I guess I need to re-listen to the 911 and review the video of him during a polygraph test. I hear what you are saying, but something seems out of place.
Click to expand...

Let me know if I did. I find your messages generally notably accurate and on point. I'm always willing to acknowledge when I'm inaccurate openly and not repeat the error nor build upon it again.
 
MaggieD said:
I've distanced myself from M/Z threads, so I may be behind the curve. But I'll tell you this:

Zimmerman would have scared me if I were out walking in the dark at night. While I believe he was just trying to "keep eyes" on Martin, the appearance to Martin could easily have been that he was being stalked. I try to put my head into the head of a black teenager -- and I come up with, pure and simple, he was afraid.

EDIT: If you read this originally, before my edit, the first word was "Martin." WRONG!!! And edited to be what I meant to say.
Click to expand...

If he was afraid, why didn't he call the police from his cell, or go to a neighbors house and ask for help? The evidence shows that he doubled back. Why would he do that if he was scared?
 
Martin decides to run, but what happens next? Zimm open his car door and gets out. What If TM heard that and it changed his decision dynamic?
 
spanky said:
Simple enough.
Click to expand...

I don't know - why did George pursue Martin on foot when dispatch told him not to do so? Why did he take a gun with him on patrol?

:shrug: So many questions - no real believable answers that explain any of it.

I don't get why everyone is trying to break down the 'middle' actions - the 'responses to the fight' and 'just to kill to protect self' when there are so many questionable events that took place beforehand.

Would it have killed George to just leave Martin alone and let the police handle it?
 
Would it have killed Martin not to decide to face-to-face confront Zimmerman? No, he would be alive.

Would it kill anyone if people decided to be totally apathetic about their neighbors well being? Well, actually yes. BUT the good of it would be that few criminals go to jail or die, with the added plus of fewer drug dealers selling to kids going to jail too. The best way to end those problems is to repeal state and federal penal codes. No laws and all crime is eliminated.

To solve many of these problems they should outlaw people having locks on their doors and eliminate all drug laws. People in need should be able to obtain what they need from people who have. The outdated notion of property ownership needs to go. Drug experimentation is good for children.
 
joko104 said:
That is never really discussed but is relevant.

1. Why did TM approach GZ the first time, then run seeing GZ on the phone?
2. Why did TM then double back at GZ after GZ got off the phone?

Neither of those are ever discussed on these topics. I've asked why before. They'll just divert to the same-same-same they post on every other topic.
Click to expand...

1 - TM was walking past GZ because he had to in order to get back to where he was staying.
2 - Assumption based on GZ terrible retelling of the incident. There is no evidence, other than GZ's claim, that supports the idea that TM came back and approached GZ.
 
joko104 said:
That is never really discussed but is relevant.

1. Why did TM approach GZ the first time, then run seeing GZ on the phone?
2. Why did TM then double back at GZ after GZ got off the phone?

Neither of those are ever discussed on these topics. I've asked why before. They'll just divert to the same-same-same they post on every other topic.
Click to expand...

I have seen GZ followers state this as fact. I searched the police reports, but could not find any official record of this. Was this done by GZ's congregation members playing detective on youtube, or is this a known fact in the case?

Edit: Found the answer. GZ followers like to use google maps to play detective on the internet:lamo
 
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joko104 said:
#1 yes, that was his police call as taped. TM coming towards GZ and GZ saying TM looked like he was trouble, then TM running - with the police asking GZ if he was following. That all recorded in GZ's phone call. The verbal and face-toface conflict came after GZ was off the phone.

Since it is entirely improbably that pudgy GZ could not have run down TM (TM clearly would have been too fast to catch), I think that makes #2 a logical conclusion, or at least a likelihood.
Click to expand...

Remember Z drove past M, parked at the clubhouse, then called.

So M was proceeding along his original route.

Havent seen anything where M actually went out of his way to approach Z.

And isn't the second approach in one of Zs related versions and not in the call to SPD?
 
TheThing said:
If he was afraid, why didn't he call the police from his cell, or go to a neighbors house and ask for help? The evidence shows that he doubled back. Why would he do that if he was scared?
Click to expand...

He wasnt a resident so theres no reason to think he knew the neighbors.

"Going to ground" is a normal flight response.

Simply stopping to deal with a hysterical woman on the phone fits the evidence as well.

There is zero proof he "circled back". Simply conjecture in support of a narrative.
 
I don't believe it was dark, near dusk but not dark yet.
 
spanky said:
I don't believe it was dark, near dusk but not dark yet.
Click to expand...

Dark enough to affect visibility but not full dark, afaik.

I suspect it was two people who were scared of each other coming upon each other in the dark much closer than either ever wanted to be.

Then it just went downhill from there.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
I don't know - why did George pursue Martin on foot when dispatch told him not to do so? Why did he take a gun with him on patrol?

:shrug: So many questions - no real believable answers that explain any of it.

I don't get why everyone is trying to break down the 'middle' actions - the 'responses to the fight' and 'just to kill to protect self' when there are so many questionable events that took place beforehand.

Would it have killed George to just leave Martin alone and let the police handle it?
Click to expand...

GZ terminated his search when asked and he wasn't on patrol, he was on his way to the store.

It's difficult to discuss when basic facts are mistaken or spun.
 
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