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Sad case of mistaken intentions

C

cwstreet2008

The whole Zimmerman and Martin situation reads to me like a bad case of misunderstanding. Both parties feared one another, and unfortunately, one of them died. Perhaps Zimmerman thought Martin was trying to rob someone, so he kept an eye on him. I think Martin thought a creepy sexual preditor was stalking him (Zimmerman) and felt the need to act tough. Had Zimmerman just let the police do their job and stayed out of the situation, perhaps they both would have gone home and about their normal lives.
 
cwstreet2008 said:
The whole Zimmerman and Martin situation reads to me like a bad case of misunderstanding. Both parties feared one another, and unfortunately, one of them died. Perhaps Zimmerman thought Martin was trying to rob someone, so he kept an eye on him. I think Martin thought a creepy sexual preditor was stalking him (Zimmerman) and felt the need to act tough. Had Zimmerman just let the police do their job and stayed out of the situation, perhaps they both would have gone home and about their normal lives.
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Welcome to DP. Good luck with your very first post. I suggest that you buckle up and put on a crash helmet. This is one of the most heated threads on the site.
 
cwstreet2008 said:
The whole Zimmerman and Martin situation reads to me like a bad case of misunderstanding. Both parties feared one another, and unfortunately, one of them died. Perhaps Zimmerman thought Martin was trying to rob someone, so he kept an eye on him. I think Martin thought a creepy sexual preditor was stalking him (Zimmerman) and felt the need to act tough. Had Zimmerman just let the police do their job and stayed out of the situation, perhaps they both would have gone home and about their normal lives.
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That is a very good summary of what happened. Your post will be attacked though as others here have their own agenda and will do their utmost to make it fit.
 
You won't catch me being part of neighborhood watch with this king of backing.
Crooks have at it.
 
Darroll said:
You won't catch me being part of neighborhood watch with this king of backing.
Crooks have at it.
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Well if you were planning to follow people about in the dark with a gun, thanks.
 
The OP is another example of people who believe that no one should call the police on suspicious conduct of others. Clearly the OP does NOT want the police to "do their job" because if Zimmerman had not tried to see where Martin ran off to there was nothing the police could do.

And another example of the opinion that if someone is watching you in a way you don't like, you can go beat that person to death. It was Martins' approach at Zimmerman that turned it violent.
 
cwstreet2008 said:
The whole Zimmerman and Martin situation reads to me like a bad case of misunderstanding. Both parties feared one another, and unfortunately, one of them died. Perhaps Zimmerman thought Martin was trying to rob someone, so he kept an eye on him. I think Martin thought a creepy sexual preditor was stalking him (Zimmerman) and felt the need to act tough. Had Zimmerman just let the police do their job and stayed out of the situation, perhaps they both would have gone home and about their normal lives.
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Good post.. Zimmerman was too zealous .. He had a couple of opportunities to identify himself.. Apparently wasn't smart enough to realize the effect of his behavior that night.
 
joko104 said:
The OP is another example of people who believe that no one should call the police on suspicious conduct of others. Clearly the OP does NOT want the police to "do their job" because if Zimmerman had not tried to see where Martin ran off to there was nothing the police could do.

And another example of the opinion that if someone is watching you in a way you don't like, you can go beat that person to death. It was Martins' approach at Zimmerman that turned it violent.
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Just a curious question. I wonder how many deaths result each year caused by one person beating to death or causing such injury as to cause a person to live immobile?
 
Removable Mind said:
Just a curious question. I wonder how many deaths result each year caused by one person beating to death or causing such injury as to cause a person to live immobile?
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99% of the time, the person walking in your neighborhood is NOT a dangerous criminal.
 
Removable Mind said:
Just a curious question. I wonder how many deaths result each year caused by one person beating to death or causing such injury as to cause a person to live immobile?
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I don't have a clue and doubt such statistics exist. I know its not that difficult, a woman now my wife was 50/50 for a couple days for head trauma from a violent assault, In my youth I've seen people beat to death, and my comment in the Zimmerman case is based upon head violently meeting concrete.

However, I do not think a person has to be being beaten to death to use deadly force to stop a violent assault by a stranger of unknown intentions. Rather, a person can use deadly force if that is what is necessary to stop the assault.

First, no person has to allow him/herself to be violently beaten even if not in a deadly way. Second, there is no manner to know when it would become deadly or permanently disabling - whether deliberate or not. I've never claimed that TM was trying to kill ZG. Maybe he was. Maybe he wasn't. No way for Zimmerman to know nor does it matter if he did.

IF Zimmerman's story of him sticking to the sidewalk to try to see where Martin ran off to, so he could tell the police he had called where Martin approximately is, is no wrongdoing at all on his part. Had he not done so, his call to the police would have just become a prank call by Zimmerman in effect, a total waste of police time.
 
sharon said:
99% of the time, the person walking in your neighborhood is NOT a dangerous criminal.
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Unless you are a paranoid hyper Barney Fife and then 99% of the people are up to no good.

It is one thing to look out for your neighbors and their property, it is another thing to become the local self appointed sheriff.
 
joko104 said:
his call to the police would have just become a prank call by Zimmerman in effect, a total waste of police time.
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For once you finally got something right. Bingo.
 
Darroll said:
You won't catch me being part of neighborhood watch with this king of backing.
Crooks have at it.
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Neighborhood Crime watch where I'm at shut down because of this. Only a fool would ever let him/herself have the title of Neighborhood Watch.

The thrust of the prosecution and politicians is to establish that no one should call the police on other people and no one should be armed. As the prosecutor declared, she is using this case to "vigorously" defeat Stand Your Ground. The claim that Zimmerman initiated it for which he is criminally liable is that Zimmerman proactively tried to see where Martin ran off to so he could tell the police when they arrived.
 
Crosscheck said:
Unless you are a paranoid hyper Barney Fife and then 99% of the people are up to no good.

It is one thing to look out for your neighbors and their property, it is another thing to become the local self appointed sheriff.
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Imagine if the police had arrived to find George lying on the ground under an unarmed teen who lived down the street. The SPD would still be laughing at Georgie.
 
joko104 said:
I don't have a clue and doubt such statistics exist. I know its not that difficult, a woman now my wife was 50/50 for a couple days for head trauma from a violent assault, In my youth I've seen people beat to death, and my comment in the Zimmerman case is based upon head violently meeting concrete.

However, I do not think a person has to be being beaten to death to use deadly force to stop a violent assault by a stranger of unknown intentions. Rather, a person can use deadly force if that is what is necessary to stop the assault.

First, no person has to allow him/herself to be violently beaten even if not in a deadly way. Second, there is no manner to know when it would become deadly or permanently disabling - whether deliberate or not. I've never claimed that TM was trying to kill ZG. Maybe he was. Maybe he wasn't. No way for Zimmerman to know nor does it matter if he did.

IF Zimmerman's story of him sticking to the sidewalk to try to see where Martin ran off to, so he could tell the police he had called where Martin approximately is, is no wrongdoing at all on his part. Had he not done so, his call to the police would have just become a prank call by Zimmerman in effect, a total waste of police time.
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If Zimmerman truly believed that TM was a thief...what time of day did this death occur? Reason I ask is that I don't recall you guys discussing events in the apartment units where a single thief would do force entries into apartments with the tenets at home. Were there such activities going on?

If TM was a "in fact a thief" with evidence to back that up...was he also a violent thief who would barge into an apartment during hours when most people are likely to be home? Would he do that without a weapon of some type?
 
Removable Mind said:
If Zimmerman truly believed that TM was a thief...what time of day did this death occur? Reason I ask is that I don't recall you guys discussing events in the apartment units where a single thief would do force entries into apartments with the tenets at home. Were there such activities going on?

If TM was a "in fact a thief" with evidence to back that up...was he also a violent thief who would barge into an apartment during hours when most people are likely to be home? Would he do that without a weapon of some type?
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Daytime burglaries on week days when families were at work or school.. George has NO smarts.

What is this crap about politicians don't want people to call the police. Idiotic claim.

People still call 911 every day about suspicious activity.
 
Removable Mind said:
If Zimmerman truly believed that TM was a thief...what time of day did this death occur? Reason I ask is that I don't recall you guys discussing events in the apartment units where a single thief would do force entries into apartments with the tenets at home. Were there such activities going on?

If TM was a "in fact a thief" with evidence to back that up...was he also a violent thief who would barge into an apartment during hours when most people are likely to be home? Would he do that without a weapon of some type?
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Odd message.

Not everyone is at home at 7pm. I don't know that he was trying to steal anything or break-in anywhere, and don't think GZ ever said he was. Personally, I think it far more likely he was hanging around outside hoping to buy pot since his father/stepmother would be gone for rest of the weekend, he was not at his usual home, and had $40+ in his pocket. But TM may not have been up to anything "wrong" at all. We'll never know.

While Sharon claims GZ should have directly approached TM, declaring his full name, that he had the authority of Neighborhood Watch (which is NONE), and then demanded TM tell GZ what he's doing, I think GZ did the right thing by only phoning the police (non-emergency number) and then from the street or sidewalk try to watch where TM ran off to so he could tell the police and let the police decide whether or not to question TM.

I exactly nothing "wrong" with GZ trying to see where TM ran off to. However, GZ had gotten way over his head, just TM then did too.
 
sharon said:
Daytime burglaries on week days when families were at work or school.. George has NO smarts.

What is this crap about politicians don't want people to call the police. Idiotic claim.

People still call 911 every day about suspicious activity.
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BUT YOU - again - claim people should then directly confront the person face-to-face and blame GZ for not doing so. So what's your point?
 
joko104 said:
Odd message.

Not everyone is at home at 7pm. I don't know that he was trying to steal anything or break-in anywhere, and don't think GZ ever said he was. Personally, I think it far more likely he was hanging around outside hoping to buy pot since his father/stepmother would be gone for rest of the weekend, he was not at his usual home, and had $40+ in his pocket. But TM may not have been up to anything "wrong" at all. We'll never know.

While Sharon claims GZ should have directly approached TM, declaring his full name, that he had the authority of Neighborhood Watch (which is NONE), and then demanded TM tell GZ what he's doing, I think GZ did the right thing by only phoning the police (non-emergency number) and then from the street or sidewalk try to watch where TM ran off to so he could tell the police and let the police decide whether or not to question TM.

I exactly nothing "wrong" with GZ trying to see where TM ran off to. However, GZ had gotten way over his head, just TM then did too.
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Of course... unless George is a complete coward (good possibility)
 
sharon said:
Imagine if the police had arrived to find George lying on the ground under an unarmed teen who lived down the street. The SPD would still be laughing at Georgie.
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Are you back to your claim that you think street fights are cool and that anyone can go start one with anyone else as they way of proving he is a "real man?"

This may come as a total shock to you and know you totally disagree, but violently attacking someone isn't cool, isn't legal, and does not define what is a "real man."

Nor is it criminal to be a coward - which you define as not wanting to go get in fights. Maybe TM's mother taught him as you claim over and over - if you don't like someone go beat them up - thus causing TM's death. It does appear that your "real men go beat up people" attitude is what caused this and accordingly caused TM's death. I've often posted that other than TM himself, who is most responsible for his death is his parents.
 
sharon said:
Of course... unless George is a complete coward (good possibility)
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And TM was "brave" to your standard, aggressively approached GZ - as you said GZ should have done - became violent - which you think is hysterically funny - and got himself killed.

People like you who preach violence and declare the measure of a man is his willingness and ability to beat up others is a macho view that very likely is what motivated TM to approach and assault GZ. So a lesson learned is that teens and men who listen to such as you preach are very likely to end up in prison or dead.
 
joko104;1[U said:
060961831]The OP is another example of [/U]people who believe that no one should call the police on suspicious conduct of others. Clearly the OP does NOT want the police to "do their job" because if Zimmerman had not tried to see where Martin ran off to there was nothing the police could do.

And another example of the opinion that if someone is watching you in a way you don't like, you can go beat that person to death. It was Martins' approach at Zimmerman that turned it violent.
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Your feelings are skewing what was actually said again.

What do you mean "nothing the police could do"? Martin was not involved in any criminal activity to begin with.

This case is similar to the Joe Horn shooting...except Joe actually saw criminal conduct.

The point the OP is making, do not jump to conclusions. Zimmerman calling 911 and reporting suspicious activity is fine. No problems there. Zimmerman going Judge Dredd is not fine.
 
hawke812 said:
Your feelings are skewing what was actually said again.

What do you mean "nothing the police could do"? Martin was not involved in any criminal activity to begin with.

This case is similar to the Joe Horn shooting...except Joe actually saw criminal conduct.

The point the OP is making, do not jump to conclusions. Zimmerman calling 911 and reporting suspicious activity is fine. No problems there. Zimmerman going Judge Dredd is not fine.
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It has no similiarity to the Joe Horn shooting whatsoever and such a message lacks any integrity whatsoever.

Yes, we know you, Sharon and the others like to sneer at GZ with stupid comments like "going Judge Dredd" etc.

TM's Bruce Lee act didn't turn out too good for him in the end, did it?

 
joko104 said:
It has no similiarity to the Joe Horn shooting whatsoever and such a message lacks any integrity whatsoever.

Yes, we know you, Sharon and the others like to sneer at GZ with stupid comments like "going Judge Dredd" etc.

TM's Bruce Lee act didn't turn out too good for him in the end, did it?
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Trayvon Martin Shooting
George Zimmerman Shooting

They both be shooting incidents. Both called police dispatch. Both had guns. Both spoke English. Both live in the United States. Both lived in states with a form of SYG. Both aimed their weapons at another human being. Both pulled the trigger. Etc. Etc. Etc. There are clearly no similarities whatsoever here:lol:

Why reference Bruce Lee, then post an Indiana Jones clip? What does Bruce Lee have to do with Indiana Jones? I don't get it...

Do you actually picture us "sneering"? Yes, I was being a little facetious, but using Judge Dredd does describe Zimmerman's actions pretty well.

I AM THE LAW! - Judge George Zimmerman:lol:
 
joko104 said:
And TM was "brave" to your standard, aggressively approached GZ - as you said GZ should have done - became violent - which you think is hysterically funny - and got himself killed.

People like you who preach violence and declare the measure of a man is his willingness and ability to beat up others is a macho view that very likely is what motivated TM to approach and assault GZ. So a lesson learned is that teens and men who listen to such as you preach are very likely to end up in prison or dead.
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Trayvon behaved like an ADULT.. asking the question, Why are you following me?
 
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