Zimmerman to get "Stand Your Ground" hearing.....developing

Masada · Aug 9, 2012

It seems that after the prosecution submitted most to all of their evidence through discovery, the judge is going to allow a Stand Your Ground hearing. Meaning, this case could be decided WITHOUT a jury trial. If the hearing concludes that Zimmerman acted in self-defense, he is immune from any criminal AND civil prosecution for the shooting of Martin.

Pretty big deal for Zimmerman.

sharon · Aug 9, 2012

Masada said:
It seems that after the prosecution submitted most to all of their evidence through discovery, the judge is going to allow a Stand Your Ground hearing. Meaning, this case could be decided WITHOUT a jury trial. If the hearing concludes that Zimmerman acted in self-defense, he is immune from any criminal AND civil prosecution for the shooting of Martin.

Pretty big deal for Zimmerman.

Yes.. and the homeowners at the Retreat won't be immune.

MaggieD · Aug 9, 2012

Masada said:
It seems that after the prosecution submitted most to all of their evidence through discovery, the judge is going to allow a Stand Your Ground hearing. Meaning, this case could be decided WITHOUT a jury trial. If the hearing concludes that Zimmerman acted in self-defense, he is immune from any criminal AND civil prosecution for the shooting of Martin.

Pretty big deal for Zimmerman.

The judge didn't allow the hearing. It is Zimmerman's right. The judge has no say in the matter. But he does have a say in the decision to dismiss on those grounds.

Zimmerman's chances of a dismissal?

1. Slim
2. None

Masada · Aug 9, 2012

sharon said:
Yes.. and the homeowners at the Retreat won't be immune.

Boy Sharon....you don't care "who" gets it do you? You just want "someone" to hang for this incident. The homeowner's association will also be immune if SYG hearing finds that Zimmerman acted in self-defense. Like I told you months ago, it comes down to actual "evidence", and it appears that the prosecution doesn't have much to hang it's hat on.

ric27 · Aug 9, 2012

Masada said:
It seems that after the prosecution submitted most to all of their evidence through discovery, the judge is going to allow a Stand Your Ground hearing. Meaning, this case could be decided WITHOUT a jury trial. If the hearing concludes that Zimmerman acted in self-defense, he is immune from any criminal AND civil prosecution for the shooting of Martin.

Pretty big deal for Zimmerman.

The judge is biased. He shouldn't preside over the SYG.

joko104 · Aug 9, 2012

Masada said:
It seems that after the prosecution submitted most to all of their evidence through discovery, the judge is going to allow a Stand Your Ground hearing. Meaning, this case could be decided WITHOUT a jury trial. If the hearing concludes that Zimmerman acted in self-defense, he is immune from any criminal AND civil prosecution for the shooting of Martin.

Pretty big deal for Zimmerman.

The judge already pre-announced that the prosecution has a strong case. Although there has not been 1 minute of trial, that particular judge doesn't need the waste of a trial to make his opinions, decisions and announcements.

The defense will make the motion for purposes of appeal only. The judge has already said the prosecution has a prima facia case and hurled about every possible insult and condemnation on George Zimmerman possible. Since there is every reason to believe the judge will continue such gross misconduct and continue to trash George Zimmerman to the press and media, the defense has to make a major effort towards the slow appeals process.

joko104 · Aug 9, 2012

Masada said:
Boy Sharon....you don't care "who" gets it do you? You just want "someone" to hang for this incident. The homeowner's association will also be immune if SYG hearing finds that Zimmerman acted in self-defense. Like I told you months ago, it comes down to actual "evidence", and it appears that the prosecution doesn't have much to hang it's hat on.

There is no liability of the homeowners association, NW or anyone else for George Zimmerman's actions. There is no liability of TM's mother either.

Travelers should be hit with prosecution of a frivilous lawsuit and the attorney repremanded by the Bar Association for filing it.

Excon · Aug 9, 2012

MaggieD said:
The judge didn't allow the hearing. It is Zimmerman's right. The judge has no say in the matter. But he does have a say in the decision to dismiss on those grounds.

Zimmerman's chances of a dismissal?

1. Slim
2. None

I agree, only because of the Judge's prior statements, not because it would be a right and proper decision.

An appeal of such, I would normally say slim to none also because of statistics, but in this case because of the known evidence, I would say he has a better chance than slim to none as an Appeals Court just may over turn such a denial.

JackFrost · Aug 9, 2012

ric27 said:
The judge is biased. He shouldn't preside over the SYG.

How is the judge biased?

Excon · Aug 9, 2012

hawke812 said:
How is the judge biased?

He has drawn conclusion prior to trial. That is a bias. One he should not have.

JackFrost · Aug 9, 2012

joko104 said:
The judge already pre-announced that the prosecution has a strong case. Although there has not been 1 minute of trial, that particular judge doesn't need the waste of a trial to make his opinions, decisions and announcements.

The defense will make the motion for purposes of appeal only. The judge has already said the prosecution has a prima facia case and hurled about every possible insult and condemnation on George Zimmerman possible. Since there is every reason to believe the judge will continue such gross misconduct and continue to trash George Zimmerman to the press and media, the defense has to make a major effort towards the slow appeals process.

The judge stated the prosecution had a strong case IN RESPONSE to the GZ legal team claiming it was a weak case. The trial has not started, but the GZ defense team can claim a weak case, but no one else can claim a strong case? Is there a guideline or law that judges can not say one side has a strong/weak case in response to claims from the prosecution or defense before a trial begins?
The judge has not "trashed" GZ. Opinions are not fact.

Misconduct? Proof?

ric27 · Aug 9, 2012

hawke812 said:
The judge stated the prosecution had a strong case IN RESPONSE to the GZ legal team claiming it was a weak case. The trial has not started, but the GZ defense team can claim a weak case, but no one else can claim a strong case? Is there a guideline or law that judges can not say one side has a strong/weak case in response to claims from the prosecution or defense?

The judge has not "trashed" GZ. Opinions are not fact.

Misconduct? Proof?

Where's the judge's evidence that Z was preparing to flee to avoid prosecution, but his plans were thwarted?

Why was he allowed to throw out those allegations out there without evidence?

JackFrost · Aug 9, 2012

ric27 said:
Where's the judge's evidence that Z was preparing to flee to avoid prosecution, but his plans were thwarted?

Attempting to hide large amounts of money

2nd passport

Why was he allowed to throw out those allegations out there without evidence?
See above

The judge made those allegations from what was presented to him. You are pretending there is nothing on GZ, and the judge is one big ole meanie. Really:lol:

Excon · Aug 9, 2012

hawke812 said:
The judge made those allegations from what was presented to him. You are pretending there is nothing on GZ, and the judge is one big ole meanie. Really:lol:

If that is what he used, it clearly shows the Judge's bias.

sharon · Aug 10, 2012

Masada said:
Boy Sharon....you don't care "who" gets it do you? You just want "someone" to hang for this incident. The homeowner's association will also be immune if SYG hearing finds that Zimmerman acted in self-defense. Like I told you months ago, it comes down to actual "evidence", and it appears that the prosecution doesn't have much to hang it's hat on.

The HOA will be held liable for wrongful death even if George is acquitted.......

Monday, August 06, 2012
Insurer Denies Coverage to HOA in Trayvon Martin's Death

ORLANDO (CN) - Traveler's Insurance sued Trayvon Martin's mother and The Retreat at Twin Lakes Homeowners' Association, where her son was killed, claiming it has no responsibility to defend the HOA or cover the teen-ager's death.
Travelers Casualty and Surety Company of America sued The Retreat at Twin Lakes Homeowners' Association and Sybrina Fulton, as representative of her son's estate, in Federal Court.

Courthouse News Service

Recent court filings show Sybrina Fulton, mother of Trayvon Martin, has filed a claim for monetary damages against an insurance company for the Retreat at Twin Lakes homeowners association in her 17-year-old son's death.

The insurance claim was revealed in paperwork filed last week by Travelers Casualty and Surety Company of America. In those documents, the insurer seeks clarification of its responsibilities in the teen's death and asks a federal judge to absolve Travelers of liability.

Trayvon Martin insurance claim - Orlando Sentinel

mike2810 · Aug 10, 2012

sharon said:
The HOA will be held liable for wrongful death even if George is acquitted.......

Monday, August 06, 2012
Insurer Denies Coverage to HOA in Trayvon Martin's Death

ORLANDO (CN) - Traveler's Insurance sued Trayvon Martin's mother and The Retreat at Twin Lakes Homeowners' Association, where her son was killed, claiming it has no responsibility to defend the HOA or cover the teen-ager's death.
Travelers Casualty and Surety Company of America sued The Retreat at Twin Lakes Homeowners' Association and Sybrina Fulton, as representative of her son's estate, in Federal Court.

Courthouse News Service

Recent court filings show Sybrina Fulton, mother of Trayvon Martin, has filed a claim for monetary damages against an insurance company for the Retreat at Twin Lakes homeowners association in her 17-year-old son's death.

The insurance claim was revealed in paperwork filed last week by Travelers Casualty and Surety Company of America. In those documents, the insurer seeks clarification of its responsibilities in the teen's death and asks a federal judge to absolve Travelers of liability.

Trayvon Martin insurance claim - Orlando Sentinel

Question. if GZ was on his own time that night, why is the HOA responsible?
Seems a case could be made that GZ was acting as a concerned homeowner that night and the HOA had no involvement.
Looks like a lawyer looking for deeper pockets to pick.

joko104 · Aug 10, 2012

sharon said:
The HOA will be held liable for wrongful death even if George is acquitted.......

Monday, August 06, 2012
Insurer Denies Coverage to HOA in Trayvon Martin's Death

ORLANDO (CN) - Traveler's Insurance sued Trayvon Martin's mother and The Retreat at Twin Lakes Homeowners' Association, where her son was killed, claiming it has no responsibility to defend the HOA or cover the teen-ager's death.
Travelers Casualty and Surety Company of America sued The Retreat at Twin Lakes Homeowners' Association and Sybrina Fulton, as representative of her son's estate, in Federal Court.

Courthouse News Service

Recent court filings show Sybrina Fulton, mother of Trayvon Martin, has filed a claim for monetary damages against an insurance company for the Retreat at Twin Lakes homeowners association in her 17-year-old son's death.

The insurance claim was revealed in paperwork filed last week by Travelers Casualty and Surety Company of America. In those documents, the insurer seeks clarification of its responsibilities in the teen's death and asks a federal judge to absolve Travelers of liability.

Trayvon Martin insurance claim - Orlando Sentinel

What possible theory is there that the HOA is responsible for the actions of one of the residents? There is none. GZ was neither employee or agent of the HOA. Unlike you insisted he should have done, at no time did he state by any evidence that he was acting in any capacity of NW, on behalf of the HOA or anyone else.

ANYONE can file a lawsuit.

There is a saying about that: "It is every American's right to lose a lawsuit."

sharon · Aug 10, 2012

joko104 said:
What possible theory is there that the HOA is responsible for the actions of one of the residents? There is none. GZ was neither employee or agent of the HOA. Unlike you insisted he should have done, at no time did he state by any evidence that he was acting in any capacity of NW, on behalf of the HOA or anyone else.

ANYONE can file a lawsuit.

There is a saying about that: "It is every American's right to lose a lawsuit."

At the HOA meeting they chose George as NW captain and referred to him in their newsletters.. "Report to George"... George also sent out email alerts and advice on who to profile..
George represented the HOA.. that fiduciary relationship creates their liability.

So.. at the time of the shooting the HOA was liable because of George..

Now do you comprehend why NW isn't supposed to carry guns or get out of their car?

Do you understand why GZ should have listened to the dispatcher?

Every day GZ represented the HOA... and you want to say for this 30 minutes on a Sunday evening, he didn't.

joko104 · Aug 10, 2012

sharon said:
At the HOA meeting they chose George as NW captain and referred to him in their newsletters.. "Report to George"... George also sent out email alerts and advice on who to profile..
George represented the HOA.. that fiduciary relationship creates their liability.

So.. at the time of the shooting the HOA was liable because of George..

Now do you comprehend why NW isn't supposed to carry guns or get out of their car?

Do you understand why GZ should have listened to the dispatcher?

Every day GZ represented the HOA... and you want to say for this 30 minutes on a Sunday evening, he didn't.

This is another example of you getting some thought in your head and throwing (up) that thought on multiple threads when it has NOTHING to do with the thread or the discussion going on the thread.

^ Your message is just a mix of wrongheaded views of law and more raging - raging at everyone who didn't hate and totally cut off any contact with GZ.

NO, there was NO fiduciary relationship between the HOA and GZ. That's just a bizarre claim. Do you even know what "fiduciary relationship" means?

GZ never represented the HOA. He is not on their staff, their board, or their payroll. He is not an officer of the HOA. Not an agent of the HOA. I have seen nothing of the HOA giving him any authority. Having a news letter saying his is part of some NW group no more creates a liability than if the local newspaper printed it or if the HOA printed someone announcing a bake sale and people got food poisoning at it.

sharon · Aug 10, 2012

joko104 said:
This is another example of you getting some thought in your head and throwing (up) that thought on multiple threads when it has NOTHING to do with the thread or the discussion going on the thread.

^ Your message is just a mix of wrongheaded views of law and more raging - raging at everyone who didn't hate and totally cut off any contact with GZ.

NO, there was NO fiduciary relationship between the HOA and GZ. That's just a bizarre claim. Do you even know what "fiduciary relationship" means?

GZ never represented the HOA. He is not on their staff, their board, or their payroll. He is not an officer of the HOA. Not an agent of the HOA. I have seen nothing of the HOA giving him any authority. Having a news letter saying his is part of some NW group no more creates a liability than if the local newspaper printed it or if the HOA printed someone announcing a bake sale and people got food poisoning at it.

He was chosen Watch Captain by the HOA..

I can't believe you don't get it..Travelers certainly knows the law and gets it.. That is why they are going to court to sever their liability.

The HOA screwed up.

Do you think that Travelers has a few lawyers??

sharon · Aug 10, 2012

joko104 · Aug 10, 2012

I don't see George Zimmerman's name anywhere on that sign. Do you?

SheWolf · Aug 10, 2012

Excon said:
He has drawn conclusion prior to trial. That is a bias. One he should not have.

What is your proof? He granted Zimmerman a second bail after he lied to judge, which he wasn't legally entitled too. I'd say he was fair to Zimmerman.

Pinkie · Aug 10, 2012

sharon said:
The HOA will be held liable for wrongful death even if George is acquitted.......

Monday, August 06, 2012
Insurer Denies Coverage to HOA in Trayvon Martin's Death

ORLANDO (CN) - Traveler's Insurance sued Trayvon Martin's mother and The Retreat at Twin Lakes Homeowners' Association, where her son was killed, claiming it has no responsibility to defend the HOA or cover the teen-ager's death.
Travelers Casualty and Surety Company of America sued The Retreat at Twin Lakes Homeowners' Association and Sybrina Fulton, as representative of her son's estate, in Federal Court.

Courthouse News Service

Recent court filings show Sybrina Fulton, mother of Trayvon Martin, has filed a claim for monetary damages against an insurance company for the Retreat at Twin Lakes homeowners association in her 17-year-old son's death.

The insurance claim was revealed in paperwork filed last week by Travelers Casualty and Surety Company of America. In those documents, the insurer seeks clarification of its responsibilities in the teen's death and asks a federal judge to absolve Travelers of liability.

Trayvon Martin insurance claim - Orlando Sentinel

I find this appalling, and I have great sympathy for this lady whose son has died whether he was guilty, innocent or some combo of both. But geeze louise, I can't even strain my brain and squeeze out a totally ridiculous theory on which the homeowners' association could be liable.

What, they had a neighborhood watch so they knew or should have known? That's goofy all by itself if you ask me, but even if you buy it, where's the duty to this lady? If the lawsuit is based on some sort of "you're responsible for anything a member of neighborhood watch might do" theory, how does it bloom into a duty -- and to whom could it possibly be owed? Any living human on Planet Earth who might wander near that property?

sharon · Aug 10, 2012

Pinkie said:
I find this appalling, and I have great sympathy for this lady whose son has died whether he was guilty, innocent or some combo of both. But geeze louise, I can't even strain my brain and squeeze out a totally ridiculous theory on which the homeowners' association could be liable.

What, they had a neighborhood watch so they knew or should have known? That's goofy all by itself if you ask me, but even if you buy it, where's the duty to this lady? If the lawsuit is based on some sort of "you're responsible for anything a member of neighborhood watch might do" theory, how does it bloom into a duty -- and to whom could it possibly be owed? Any living human on Planet Earth who might wander near that property?

This sort of event..if you want to call it that.. is why NW is trained in specific protocols. ALL you do is observe and report.

That's why HOA and Condo Associations carry liability insurance. Lets say signage fell over and hurt a kid waiting for the school bus... or the porch of the clubhouse collapsed and hurt someone.. I can't think of many examples..

The issue of "volunteers" should be considered.. If you hire a service, they are covered.

For instance .. a "volunteer" repairs the lighting in the hot tub .. and someone gets electrocuted .. That happened in Hilton Head decades ago,

Its like your homeowners insurance.. But this is about shared amenities and shared liability... Like if your dog bites a guest or they slip and fall on your porch.

The HOA was real sloppy in this case because they let George represent them.. Remember the NW sign at the front gate?

It doesn't say vigilante law, or we are armed and will shoot you.

George's actions created the liability for the HOA... and Trayvon's family will sue in a civil action for wrongful death.

Years and years ago my cousin had a part time job in the evenings taking care of the floors in a grocery store.. It was hot and he was sweaty. He got the electric buffer, turned it on and was electrocuted. Killed him.. he was 17.. My aunt and uncle sued for wrongful death.