Is Zimmerman brave, subborn or stupid? [W: 218]

joko104 · Jul 23, 2012

George Zimmerman won't play by the rules for poor average defendants. He's supposed to be sitting in jail waiting to hear from his public defender. He's supposed to refuse to talk to anyone because what a person is arrested they should know they lost their free speech rights in realistic terms. And the public defender brings the next offer of a plea deal which, of course, he is supposed to accept as the public defender explains if not he might get the maximum - which in GZ's case is life in prison.

And if he doesn't take the deal, he probably would as the public defender yawned his way through trial figuring a life sentence for him would help convince other "clients" to take the deal. Any guy in his situation - regardless of what happened - really on has 2 choices: Take a deal of 10 years after 1 year in jail, 5 years in, 4 more probation, plus all the lost rights of a felon OR go to trial and get a life sentence. "Not guilty" never even an option.

But George Zimmerman has some illusion that because he believes he is not guilty, he should say so in court and he believes if people talk bad about him then he should tell his side again.

So instead, George Zimmerman just keeps talking. Over and over he talked to the police. He let the police video him telling his story over and over. In the interrogation room. Even at the scene on video. On national television. On You Tube.

This is the ultimate David and Goliath battle. George Zimmerman is a nobody, an average guy. Not very educated. Not particularly smart. Certainly not perfect. Lived hand to mouth. A nobody with nothing.

Against him? Well at least at the start... NBC, ABC, MSNBC, CNN, CBS, New York Times and NY Post, LA Times, basically all national press, Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, the entire Democratic Congressional delegation, President Obama, The United Stated Department of Justice, The FBI, Jeb Bush, The Republican Governor of Florida, The Attorney General of Florida, The local City Council, The Black Panthers... the list is almost endless.

Yet George just keeps on telling his story over and over and over. One little nobody nothing guy who not only won't give up, he won't agree to be silenced either.

Any DA or defense attorney would confirm that if even 1/10th of defendants arrested wanted a jury trial the entire criminal justice system would collapse. Imagine if all Defendants refused the play the game of take any best deal as the only real way out? Not 1 in 1,000,000 guys would have all the enemies lied up against him like he does. But not 1 in 1,000,000 guys have the support either. Without the media GZ would have a Public Defender and just be sitting in jail until he took the deal or refused to and then a year os so later after a 2 day trial got a life sentence.

Is he brave? Stubborn? Stupid? Wrong place at the wrong time? Right place a the right time? All of those?

sharon · Jul 23, 2012

George is bombing again.

Zimmerman Thank You - YouTube

His "story" that he keeps telling, gets less and less convincing. He should have kept his mouth shut, gone to trial in September... and apologised sincerely.

You say "I'm sorry I shot your son".... NOT "I am sorry you had to bury your son."..... or "I am sorry I had to kill your son."

buck · Jul 23, 2012

sharon said:
George is bombing again.

How do you know that? I hope you have more then just likes/dislikes, as that means nothing. Have you seen the donation numbers since he did the interview and put the video up? I haven't, but I think that would tell the story wether his video "bombed".

You say "I'm sorry I shot your son".... NOT "I am sorry you had to bury your son."..... or "I am sorry I had to kill your son."

Probably something more like, "I am sorry that your son attacked me and put me in great fear forcing me to defend myself with deadly force."

Daktoria · Jul 23, 2012

He's alienated.

People like GZ exist because society graduates adult children who don't comprehend due process.

If anything, I blame the public school system and destruction of family values for his naivete.

buck · Jul 23, 2012

joko104 said:
George Zimmerman won't play by the rules for poor average defendants. He's supposed to be sitting in jail waiting to hear from his public defender. He's supposed to refuse to talk to anyone because what a person is arrested they should know they lost their free speech rights in realistic terms. And the public defender brings the next offer of a plea deal which, of course, he is supposed to accept as the public defender explains if not he might get the maximum - which in GZ's case is life in prison.

I would say it's not at all smart for him to have done the interview and I am not a big fan of his putting up his own site again. However, from what I understand, his fund has been nearly depleted, he can't work, and he and his family need a certain amount of money to be able to survive. If I and my family were in a similar situation, i can't say for certain i wouldn't have done the same thing.

joko104 · Jul 23, 2012

All people are highly conditioned as to what is "correct" behavior and this changes across time.

For example, people are so drilled in with "don't talk to anyone" after an arrest that is leading to a trial that is just accepted as a truism - though it also is a truism that at least 95+% of defendants who go to trial are found guilty - and of course so are all who plea guilty.

There also is some bizarre nothing that we ALL have to be lawyers of perfect word choice when we speak in such a situation of arrest and trial, which of course is true academic arrogance - and have to speak with pure Christian values too.

For example, it would NOT increase or decrease the truth of what happened whether GZ expressed remorse that it all happened and sobbed "I wish I had just stayed home" OR if he said, "that son-of-a-bitch black punk attacked me so I had to pop a cap in his ass."

Neither of those changes what happened, but the duty to correctness - and I believe even then duty to lie in words about sentiments - are so strict as to be able to decide guilt or innocence even of murder - when having nothing to do with the question in fact.

The reality is that poor, mixed race, low education ordinary guys like Zimmerman statistically have next to no chance of a "not guilty" verdict IF they follow the correctness-rules... Rules made by people who look down on people like Zimmerman overall in contempt. Why is that? Why is it if ordinary people are charged with a crime they must 1.) shut up and let academic people talk for them and 2. ) when they do speak they must have been coached to speak perfectly - rather than regularly as the person normally does?

When did everyone become a psychologist believing they can analysis what happened by nuisances of correctness and incorrectness of what a person says and how they say it? Why is that the superior system of justice?

Finally, it seems expected that people charged with a crime treat it like a poker game. Even IF you believe or know you are not guilty, a defendant should play the odds meaning pleading out. By holding people in jail and threatening maximum sentences, most do play that game. But should they? Must they?

It does appear George Zimmerman truly believes he is not guilty. If so, even if his odds are only 10% of being found not guilty, shouldn't he plead not guilty anyway?

Thunder · Jul 23, 2012

George Zimmerman is an insecure, wanna-be cop. He deals with wish his short-comings by making believe he is big & bad, and by trying to catch da bad guys.

He is certainly not a hero. He needs to see a therapist to deal with his issues.

joko104 · Jul 23, 2012

I find it interesting how he refuses to roll over and die - or to silently turn his fate over to others.

The case will tell us whether the little guy still has any chance at all against the political influences and powers of the establishment and government. I can not recall anyone more condemned or targeted by the government in any criminal case.

Furiounova · Jul 23, 2012

joko104 said:
I find it interesting how he refuses to roll over and die - or to silently turn his fate over to others.

The case will tell us whether the little guy still has any chance at all against the political influences and powers of the establishment and government. I can not recall anyone more condemned or targeted by the government in any criminal case.

Will you ever address your false claim about 80% Americans saying GZ is not guilty? Or do you hope to bury that with more BS threads? Your op is nothing but fallacies that fail to address the facts of the case in addition to more false accusations.

Thunder · Jul 23, 2012

joko104 said:
...The case will tell us whether the little guy still has any chance at all against the political influences and powers of the establishment and government. I can not recall anyone more condemned or targeted by the government in any criminal case.

Martin lays dead in a coffin, and yet you consider Zimmerman the victim.

unbelievable.

joko104 · Jul 23, 2012

Thunder said:
Martin lays dead in a coffin, and yet you consider Zimmerman the victim.

unbelievable.

As opposed to your view that everyone is a victim?

It is his parents, the media, the politicians and prosecutor/judge who continue to victimize Martin.

It seems GZ is resistant to silently being a victim of politicians who are using TM's death and his life to built their wealth, get themselves on TV and political status.

Thunder · Jul 23, 2012

joko104 said:
As opposed to your view that everyone is a victim?....

please don't lie about my views, as I believe no such thing.

joko104 · Jul 23, 2012

But that is how it works out. One dead and the other in prison. The privacy of both totally violated. Both run down massively in the media. So both are victims of the politicians. - IF it turns out how you want it to.

I do not believe one person not consumed by the hatred spewed out by partician politicians and the partisan media believes GZ set out to hurt anyone or at any time wanted to hurt anyone.

Yet the level of hatred expressed against him just on this forum is so far out in uncontrolled emotional outer space it is easy to understand how vigiliante's would hang innocent people when the sheep are worked up into a tizzy by an emotional dominator.

My concerns are not about GZ. It is about the extreme manipulation and corruption of the judicial system, the political system and the media - all aimed at two little insignificant ordinary people (TM & GZ) being used so foully by politicians.

MaggieD · Jul 23, 2012

joko104 said:
George Zimmerman won't play by the rules for poor average defendants. He's supposed to be sitting in jail waiting to hear from his public defender. He's supposed to refuse to talk to anyone because what a person is arrested they should know they lost their free speech rights in realistic terms. And the public defender brings the next offer of a plea deal which, of course, he is supposed to accept as the public defender explains if not he might get the maximum - which in GZ's case is life in prison.

And if he doesn't take the deal, he probably would as the public defender yawned his way through trial figuring a life sentence for him would help convince other "clients" to take the deal. Any guy in his situation - regardless of what happened - really on has 2 choices: Take a deal of 10 years after 1 year in jail, 5 years in, 4 more probation, plus all the lost rights of a felon OR go to trial and get a life sentence. "Not guilty" never even an option.

But George Zimmerman has some illusion that because he believes he is not guilty, he should say so in court and he believes if people talk bad about him then he should tell his side again.

So instead, George Zimmerman just keeps talking. Over and over he talked to the police. He let the police video him telling his story over and over. In the interrogation room. Even at the scene on video. On national television. On You Tube.

This is the ultimate David and Goliath battle. George Zimmerman is a nobody, an average guy. Not very educated. Not particularly smart. Certainly not perfect. Lived hand to mouth. A nobody with nothing.

Against him? Well at least at the start... NBC, ABC, MSNBC, CNN, CBS, New York Times and NY Post, LA Times, basically all national press, Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, the entire Democratic Congressional delegation, President Obama, The United Stated Department of Justice, The FBI, Jeb Bush, The Republican Governor of Florida, The Attorney General of Florida, The local City Council, The Black Panthers... the list is almost endless.

Yet George just keeps on telling his story over and over and over. One little nobody nothing guy who not only won't give up, he won't agree to be silenced either.

Any DA or defense attorney would confirm that if even 1/10th of defendants arrested wanted a jury trial the entire criminal justice system would collapse. Imagine if all Defendants refused the play the game of take any best deal as the only real way out? Not 1 in 1,000,000 guys would have all the enemies lied up against him like he does. But not 1 in 1,000,000 guys have the support either. Without the media GZ would have a Public Defender and just be sitting in jail until he took the deal or refused to and then a year os so later after a 2 day trial got a life sentence.

Is he brave? Stubborn? Stupid? Wrong place at the wrong time? Right place a the right time? All of those?

I'm not sure...maybe "misguided." I think he made a big mistake when he got out of his car to keep an eye on Martin. Obviously, had he stayed in his car, this wouldn't have happened. I don't think he had terrible, sinister motives. I think he was doing what he perceived as his civic duty. I think keeping an eye on the neighborhood was a hobby of his. (It should be the hobby of every homeowner everywhere, frankly.) I know some little old ladies who have the same hobby, but they do it behind their window curtains.

You pointed out in another thread that GZ has been stripped of his ability to defend himself by virtue of his high bond. I agree with that. And it's made me think about our justice system. The state has millions to throw at his prosecution. His defense? Notsomuch. Notnearlysomuch.

I think he'll do jail time. And I think the whole incident was "a perfect storm." His life is ruined. Since it is unlikely he will be set free on a SYG defense, he will be liable for civil suit. He's toast, frankly, either way. His life -- for years -- is going to be nothing but legal entanglements. I personally don't know how he can stand it.

Do I feel sorry for him? In a way, I do. I don't think he's a terrible person. I don't think he did this on purpose. But I think he made very bad choices. Some bad choices we can never-ever recover from. We all should remember that...

sharon said:
George is bombing again.

Zimmerman Thank You - YouTube

His "story" that he keeps telling, gets less and less convincing. He should have kept his mouth shut, gone to trial in September... and apologised sincerely.

You say "I'm sorry I shot your son".... NOT "I am sorry you had to bury your son."..... or "I am sorry I had to kill your son."

I am sure his comments in this regard were made under the strict guidance of his attorney. Ever lose a loved one where the doctor who attended him at the time of his death came to the funeral service? You will never hear, "I'm sorry," pass his/her lips. There's a reason for that. Same reason here.

Furiounova · Jul 23, 2012

Thunder said:
Martin lays dead in a coffin, and yet you consider Zimmerman the victim.

unbelievable.

FN likes this post.

joko104 · Jul 23, 2012

MaggieD said:
I'm not sure...maybe "misguided." I think he made a big mistake when he got out of his car to keep an eye on Martin. Obviously, had he stayed in his car, this wouldn't have happened. I don't think he had terrible, sinister motives. I think he was doing what he perceived as his civic duty. I think keeping an eye on the neighborhood was a hobby of his. (It should be the hobby of every homeowner everywhere, frankly.) I know some little old ladies who have the same hobby, but they do it behind their window curtains.

You pointed out in another thread that GZ has been stripped of his ability to defend himself by virtue of his high bond. I agree with that. And it's made me think about our justice system. The state has millions to throw at his prosecution. His defense? Notsomuch. Notnearlysomuch.

I think he'll do jail time. And I think the whole incident was "a perfect storm." His life is ruined. Since it is unlikely he will be set free on a SYG defense, he will be liable for civil suit. He's toast, frankly, either way. His life -- for years -- is going to be nothing but legal entanglements. I personally don't know how he can stand it.

Do I feel sorry for him? In a way, I do. I don't think he's a terrible person. I don't think he did this on purpose. But I think he made very bad choices. Some bad choices we can never-ever recover from. We all should remember that...

I am sure his comments in this regard were made under the strict guidance of his attorney. Ever lose a loved one where the doctor who attended him at the time of his death came to the funeral service? You will never hear, "I'm sorry," pass his/her lips. There's a reason for that. Same reason here.

You really go out of your way to be reasonable.

I don't really feel sorry for GZ because there are 6+ billion people and at least a billion have it worse than he no matter how it turns out.

My concern it the massive efforts to crush - and more accurately use - George Zimmerman's life and Trayvon Martin's death for political agendas - and how easily the criminal justice system has been manipulated and corrupted by those politicians.

Angela Corey (up for election as prosecuting attorney in her district as I write this) and Kenneth Lester (also a Republican elected politician) both have keyed their futures on GZ's conviction to prove they are "right" - and the steps they have both taken together are exorbitantly corrupt - from blocking a grand jury to ordering GZ can not accept any donations himself anymore (no bank account order.) Obama and Democrats need BIG African American turn-out soon - so used this all as massive race-baiting. Florida's Republican governor and Attorney General don't want to have to deal with being called racists so went along...

Anyone of us could find ourselves in GZ's spot. Violence and complexities can come a person almost instantly without warning and essentially no one will make instant thought-out decisions.

This case SHOULD have just followed the normal flow of the criminal justice system. But it did not and that is what concerns me.

joko104 · Jul 23, 2012

Furiounova said:
FN likes this post.

Now you are writing of yourself in 3rd person like you are a celebrity? You really are not the super big deal you often claim yourself to be.

Thunder · Jul 23, 2012

joko104 said:
...Obama and Democrats need BIG African American turn-out soon - so used this all as massive race-baiting. Florida's Republican governor and Attorney General don't want to have to deal with being called racists so went along....

what does this have to do with Zimmerman being brave, stubborn, or stupid?

why do you turn EVERY one of these threads into an anti-Obama race-baiting rant?

Furiounova · Jul 23, 2012

MaggieD said:
I'm not sure...maybe "misguided." I think he made a big mistake when he got out of his car to keep an eye on Martin. Obviously, had he stayed in his car, this wouldn't have happened. I don't think he had terrible, sinister motives. I think he was doing what he perceived as his civic duty. I think keeping an eye on the neighborhood was a hobby of his. (It should be the hobby of every homeowner everywhere, frankly.) I know some little old ladies who have the same hobby, but they do it behind their window curtains.

You pointed out in another thread that GZ has been stripped of his ability to defend himself by virtue of his high bond. I agree with that. And it's made me think about our justice system. The state has millions to throw at his prosecution. His defense? Notsomuch. Notnearlysomuch.

I think he'll do jail time. And I think the whole incident was "a perfect storm." His life is ruined. Since it is unlikely he will be set free on a SYG defense, he will be liable for civil suit. He's toast, frankly, either way. His life -- for years -- is going to be nothing but legal entanglements. I personally don't know how he can stand it.

Do I feel sorry for him? In a way, I do. I don't think he's a terrible person. I don't think he did this on purpose. But I think he made very bad choices. Some bad choices we can never-ever recover from. We all should remember that...

I am sure his comments in this regard were made under the strict guidance of his attorney. Ever lose a loved one where the doctor who attended him at the time of his death came to the funeral service? You will never hear, "I'm sorry," pass his/her lips. There's a reason for that. Same reason here.

Im disappointed you would pass on misinformation as well as ignore GZ's own recorded words. His bond amount has not affected his defense because Omara said from the beginning he would do the case pro bono.

d0gbreath · Jul 23, 2012

joko104 said:
You really go out of your way to be reasonable.

I don't really feel sorry for GZ because there are 6+ billion people and at least a billion have it worse than he no matter how it turns out.

My concern it the massive efforts to crush - and more accurately use - George Zimmerman's life and Trayvon Martin's death for political agendas - and how easily the criminal justice system has been manipulated and corrupted by those politicians.

Angela Corey (up for election as prosecuting attorney in her district as I write this) and Kenneth Lester (also a Republican elected politician) both have keyed their futures on GZ's conviction to prove they are "right" - and the steps they have both taken together are exorbitantly corrupt - from blocking a grand jury to ordering GZ can not accept any donations himself anymore (no bank account order.) Obama and Democrats need BIG African American turn-out soon - so used this all as massive race-baiting. Florida's Republican governor and Attorney General don't want to have to deal with being called racists so went along...

Anyone of us could find ourselves in GZ's spot. Violence and complexities can come a person almost instantly without warning and essentially no one will make instant thought-out decisions.

This case SHOULD have just followed the normal flow of the criminal justice system. But it did not and that is what concerns me.

Earlier, before the interview, you stated the following, which I perceived to believe that you thought that Florida Republicans were going to help out Mr Zimmerman.

That interview locked in Sean Hannity's support, meaning minimally the prosecutor has no political future and certainly the judge is gone in the next Republican primary. It may also take out the Florida Republican AG Pam Bondi, with Republican clubs wanting her gone and at least one MAJOR and very impressive female prosecutor appointment coming out of the woodworks to take her on.

The interview was correct for a number of reasons:
1. Without saying so, this is massive retaliation by GZ against Judge Kenneth Lester, the prosecutor and A.G. Pam Bondi

2. With Fox so EXTREMELY on his side via their 2 top guns, GZ will not be secretly trashed

3. It is an offset to the MASSIVE negative publicity

4. The jury sees the interview unless the judge goes to a new level of corruption. If the prosecution shows even ONE statement or interview by GZ trying to claim a contradiction, the defense legitimately could then insist at ALL interviews of any kind be shown to the jury to see EVERYTHING GZ said, not just the prosecutor cherry picking what interviews she wants the jury to see and which she does not.

5. This is excellent experience and training for GZ in case the defense attorney decides he has to put GZ on the stand.

6. Florida is a REPUBLICAN state at the state leve - and minimally the Republican primaries matter to Republicans - and FOX is the national Republican network. It is NOT just Judge Lester with authority - but also all the higher court judges above him - also most being Republican. Just because Judge Lester is committing Republican suicide hoping to get an Obama federal appointment doesn't mean all Republican judges are total fools like him, and all above him already have a lot of experience at overturning incompetent loose-cannon-on-the-deck Kenneth Lester.

If you are in a Republican state at the state level and FOX offers for Bill O'Reilly and Sean Hannity to throw all their support behind you in exchange for an interview, YOU DO THE INTERVIEW.

So are the Florida Republicans going to help or hang poor George? Which is it joko? It can't be both.

Furiounova · Jul 23, 2012

joko104 said:
Now you are writing of yourself in 3rd person like you are a celebrity? You really are not the super big deal you often claim yourself to be.

The "like" button doesn't work for me professor.

sharon · Jul 23, 2012

Furiounova said:
The "like" button doesn't work for me professor.

If Judge Lester is recused.

Next Judge in line for this case is

Eighteenth Judicial Circuit Courts - Brevard and Seminole Counties Florida

Judge Nelson and her bio is at that link.

She comes with a BA in Psychology and a law degree,

She is also a child's advocate.

longview · Jul 24, 2012

Furiounova said:
Im disappointed you would pass on misinformation as well as ignore GZ's own recorded words. His bond amount has not affected his defense because Omara said from the beginning he would do the case pro bono.

Omara might not be charging for his time, but investigators, expert witnesses,
and lab people will still want to get paid.
The quality of defense Omara can put on will depend on many other things,
all of which require money.
So the state is placing limits on Zimmerman's defense, while not placing any limits on the prosecution.

Furiounova · Jul 24, 2012

sharon said:
If Judge Lester is recused.

Next Judge in line for this case is

Eighteenth Judicial Circuit Courts - Brevard and Seminole Counties Florida

Judge Nelson and her bio is at that link.

She comes with a BA in Psychology and a law degree,

She is also a child's advocate.

There is no reason to recuse Lester and Omara is desperate because he knows GZ lying to the court made it virtually impossible to sell a SYG claim.

Furiounova · Jul 24, 2012

longview said:
Omara might not be charging for his time, but investigators, expert witnesses,
and lab people will still want to get paid.
The quality of defense Omara can put on will depend on many other things,
all of which require money.
So the state is placing limits on Zimmerman's defense, while not placing any limits on the prosecution.

The lab work has already been done. expert witnesses have already been provided. Investigations have been done by SPD, FDLE, the FBI and a State's attorney office. How many more do you need if you are telling the truth?

Is Zimmerman brave, subborn or stupid? [W: 218]

Yellow Dog Democrat