• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Prosecutor releases new Zimmerman evidence

Furiounova said:
A lot of GZ supporters think the case will get dismissed on the SYG law or that he can claim self defense at the trial. Florida suggests otherwise according to this statute on two relevant points:

Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:

force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or

In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.
776.041 - - 2011 Florida Statutes - The Florida Senate

During or after the SYG hearing GZ will need to prove he qualifies to claim self defense at the trial. This is when the prosecution will highlight he does not qualify because he provoked the entire episode. He can claim TM hit him first but that is irrelevant to the Statute because it clearly states provocation and not physical contact.

He did not try to retreat and this is proven by the arguing between the two before the fight and shooting. There is also no evidence he tried to escape or use non deadly force prior to shooting. His bloody nose and head scratches are not a reasonable justification for deadly force as case history proves.

If he can't use self defense during the trial he is completely toazt.
Click to expand...

GZ does not have to provide evidence he tried to escape or use nondeadly force prior to shooting. All he has to prove (more likely than not, by the way -- not the more onerous beyond reasonable doubt that the State has to prove) is that he was attacked first. Since it is highly unlikely the State will be able to prove that GZ attacked TM first, I'm beginning to doubt he'll be convicted. If-If-If it's a fair trial and not a railroad with the judge as the engineer.

His attorney is still deciding when/if he'll go before the judge and ask for dismissal on the SYG Law. While I doubt the judge would dismiss the case, it will set up an appeals process for GZ that will probably push his trial into next year.

Edit: This release of information is very helpful to Zimmerman. I never thought for One New York Minute that this was a hate crime -- nor did I think GZ "targetted" blacks -- nor did I think he was racist. It's nice to have this information confirmed. I'll bet GZ sleeps a bit better tonight.
 
Last edited:
Stardog said:
One of them an 8 year old child.

They don't forget, they just don't want to talk about it.
Click to expand...


Actually, unlike you, I think calling the police for an unattended 8 year old playing at the street is entirely good reason to contact the police. Obviously you don't. It is not criminal to not give a damn about anyone. It actually is lawful to care about other people and act accordingly.

The claim he only called on African-Americans in his known 8/9 year history of calls is a lie. He called on non African-Americans, stray dogs and suspicious vehicles - both appropriate where there are many children outdoors - and he called on open garage doors - a neighborly thing to do in a high crime neighborhood. Repeat the lie over and over or pick a narrow time frame to try to make a lie true doesn't change that it's a lie.

Nor in those years did he confront one person, ever. And he was responsible enough to not tie up 911. Counting every call he made for any and all reasons is least than 1 call every TWO MONTHS.

It is your right and the right of other Zimmerman attackers to be totally apathetic towards everyone else and be totally self absorbed and narcisstic. But it isn't really something to brag about and it isn't a criminal offense not to not give a damn about anyone but yourself.

The DOJ, state investigators, Democrats and prosecutor threw everything they had at trying to prove Zimmerman was a racist - and ended up proving the exact opposite. Give it up.
 
MaggieD said:
GZ does not have to provide evidence he tried to escape or use nondeadly force prior to shooting. All he has to prove (more likely than not, by the way -- not the more onerous beyond reasonable doubt that the State has to prove) is that he was attacked first. Since it is highly unlikely the State will be able to prove that GZ attacked TM first, I'm beginning to doubt he'll be convicted. If-If-If it's a fair trial and not a railroad with the judge as the engineer.

His attorney is still deciding when/if he'll go before the judge and ask for dismissal on the SYG Law. While I doubt the judge would dismiss the case, it will set up an appeals process for GZ that will probably push his trial into next year.

Edit: This release of information is very helpful to Zimmerman. I never thought for One New York Minute that this was a hate crime -- nor did I think GZ "targetted" blacks -- nor did I think he was racist. It's nice to have this information confirmed. I'll bet GZ sleeps a bit better tonight.
Click to expand...


I think it comes down to 3 things:
1. How much irrelevant hate-crap will the judge allow in an how much of a defense will the judge block? Judges overall can HIGHLY affect a jury just by when the judge nods yes and when he frowns.
2. Will the jury pool be stacked for the prosecution or randomly fair?
3. Given GZ has no defense and investigator money left, and a very, very passive Defense team at best, will he have a competent and aggressive defense or a defense team that mumbles and just goes thru the motions quickly to not tie up too much no-income time and no have disfavor with the judge for future cases and paying clients?

Regardless of what only God and Zimmerman knows really happens, it is clear the government does not have a case provable beyond a reasonable doubt. So I do think it comes down to a fair trial. I do not believe there has ever been probably cause to have a trial in the first place - the reason it was never submitted to a citizen's grand jury - though that is an absolute requirement under the U.S. Bill of Rights before a person can be put on trial for murder.

Its anyone's right to hate Zimmerman and think he's evil and did wrong. That does not make for a criminal conviction.
 
joko104 said:
I think it comes down to 3 things:
1. How much irrelevant hate-crap will the judge allow in an how much of a defense will the judge block? Judges overall can HIGHLY affect a jury just by when the judge nods yes and when he frowns.
2. Will the jury pool be stacked for the prosecution or randomly fair?
3. Given GZ has no defense and investigator money left, and a very, very passive Defense team at best, will he have a competent and aggressive defense or a defense team that mumbles and just goes thru the motions quickly to not tie up too much no-income time and no have disfavor with the judge for future cases and paying clients?

Regardless of what only God and Zimmerman knows really happens, it is clear the government does not have a case provable beyond a reasonable doubt. So I do think it comes down to a fair trial. I do not believe there has ever been probably cause to have a trial in the first place - the reason it was never submitted to a citizen's grand jury - though that is an absolute requirement under the U.S. Bill of Rights before a person can be put on trial for murder.

Its anyone's right to hate Zimmerman and think he's evil and did wrong. That does not make for a criminal conviction.
Click to expand...

I'd add a 4th thing to your list: It will depend on the judge's instructions to the jury. Very often these instructions can make all the difference.

I'm hoping that GZ continues to get donations to beef up his defense team. Also hoping that the fact that Florida allows cameras in the courtroom will add to his defense team's incentive to give it their all -- one can't buy that kind of publicity.
 
MaggieD said:
I'd add a 4th thing to your list: It will depend on the judge's instructions to the jury. Very often these instructions can make all the difference.

I'm hoping that GZ continues to get donations to beef up his defense team. Also hoping that the fact that Florida allows cameras in the courtroom will add to his defense team's incentive to give it their all -- one can't buy that kind of publicity.
Click to expand...

Your 4th item is VERY correct and I do stand corrected.

Here is an example. Rules of some Neighborhood Watch Association have NO weight of law, no one is required to pay any attention to them, and should not even be allowed into evidence or to be mentioned as they are not the relevant LAWS of the case. Will the judge allow that into evidence when it is only a diversion and attempt to replace the law with those guidelines?

If the judge backdoor allows it by just allowing in the handbook, will the judge then charge the jury (instruct) that the rules of that booklet have no weight of law and the jury should not consider the booklet's rules in any regards in reaching their decision? That's just one example.

I wonder if since most the money donated was just basically taken from GZ's defense and living expenses and given to a bondsman discourages people from contributing ("Zimmerman won't get it anyway" thinking) or anger people who decide to replace the money?

I hope people give more so not to literally economically starve out GZ. Its not like he can get a job right now. What's he going to live on? Food stamps?
 
Furiounova said:
A lot of GZ supporters think the case will get dismissed on the SYG law or that he can claim self defense at the trial. Florida suggests otherwise according to this statute on two relevant points:

Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:

force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or

In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.
776.041 - - 2011 Florida Statutes - The Florida Senate

During or after the SYG hearing GZ will need to prove he qualifies to claim self defense at the trial. This is when the prosecution will highlight he does not qualify because he provoked the entire episode. He can claim TM hit him first but that is irrelevant to the Statute because it clearly states provocation and not physical contact.

He did not try to retreat and this is proven by the arguing between the two before the fight and shooting. There is also no evidence he tried to escape or use non deadly force prior to shooting. His bloody nose and head scratches are not a reasonable justification for deadly force as case history proves.

If he can't use self defense during the trial he is completely toazt.
Click to expand...

It is not sufficient provocation to be sucker punched in the face (broken nose) and get you head slammed to the concrete even if you follow someone without just cause and asking them... "What are you doing here?"
 
MaggieD said:
GZ does not have to provide evidence he tried to escape or use nondeadly force prior to shooting. All he has to prove (more likely than not, by the way -- not the more onerous beyond reasonable doubt that the State has to prove) is that he was attacked first. Since it is highly unlikely the State will be able to prove that GZ attacked TM first, I'm beginning to doubt he'll be convicted. If-If-If it's a fair trial and not a railroad with the judge as the engineer.

His attorney is still deciding when/if he'll go before the judge and ask for dismissal on the SYG Law. While I doubt the judge would dismiss the case, it will set up an appeals process for GZ that will probably push his trial into next year.

Edit: This release of information is very helpful to Zimmerman. I never thought for One New York Minute that this was a hate crime -- nor did I think GZ "targetted" blacks -- nor did I think he was racist. It's nice to have this information confirmed. I'll bet GZ sleeps a bit better tonight.
Click to expand...

There is no doubt GZ initiated provocation.

Why imply the judge would have a fair trial? This judge has been more than fair to GZ since he didn't even have to give bond once, let alone twice after GZ lied to the court.
 
joko104 said:
I think it comes down to 3 things:
1. How much irrelevant hate-crap will the judge allow in an how much of a defense will the judge block? Judges overall can HIGHLY affect a jury just by when the judge nods yes and when he frowns.
2. Will the jury pool be stacked for the prosecution or randomly fair?
3. Given GZ has no defense and investigator money left, and a very, very passive Defense team at best, will he have a competent and aggressive defense or a defense team that mumbles and just goes thru the motions quickly to not tie up too much no-income time and no have disfavor with the judge for future cases and paying clients?

Regardless of what only God and Zimmerman knows really happens, it is clear the government does not have a case provable beyond a reasonable doubt. So I do think it comes down to a fair trial. I do not believe there has ever been probably cause to have a trial in the first place - the reason it was never submitted to a citizen's grand jury - though that is an absolute requirement under the U.S. Bill of Rights before a person can be put on trial for murder.

Its anyone's right to hate Zimmerman and think he's evil and did wrong. That does not make for a criminal conviction.
Click to expand...

So basically GZ supporters know he is guilty but instead of admitting that they create fantasies to explain why GZ will be convicted.
 
ric27 said:
It is not sufficient provocation to be sucker punched in the face (broken nose) and get you head slammed to the concrete even if you follow someone without just cause and asking them... "What are you doing here?"
Click to expand...

You claim GZ asked "What are you doing here?" but GZ didn't say that is what he said in his first written statement. You better contact Omara asap to let GZ know what he said since you know better than him. After all, he wasn't the one who was there. You were.
 
Furiounova said:
That's weird considering at least two people who knew GZ both said he displayed prejudice, not including his own bigotry displayed with his own words against Mexicans.
Click to expand...

what about the co-worker who accused him of anti-Muslim/Arab bigotry?
 
Thunder said:
what about the co-worker who accused him of anti-Muslim/Arab bigotry?
Click to expand...

I'm imagining that went up in smoke.

It is perjury to lie to the FBI -- not so for statements given to the PD or newspapers.
 
Thunder said:
what about the co-worker who accused him of anti-Muslim/Arab bigotry?
Click to expand...

are you referring to the one who said:
I considered beating him up to teach him a lesson
Click to expand...
and this:
Zimmerman was “so persuasive and ingenuous in his testimony to the committee that he fooled not only the committee, but the witness said that [he] even began to doubt himself.”
Click to expand...
or this:
“The witness said that he never felt physically threatened by Zimmerman or had any violent interaction with him.”
Click to expand...
 
MaggieD said:
I'm imagining that went up in smoke.

It is perjury to lie to the FBI -- not so for statements given to the PD or newspapers.
Click to expand...

You are making the mistake of assuming the media has accurately reported the information. Remember when many claimed TM's knuckles were scraped/marked up? Autopsy report shows not a single knuckle had any marks and the only mark was a small one below one knuckle on one finger.
 
justabubba said:
are you referring to the one who said:
and this:

or this:
Click to expand...

GZ has been proven to be a skilled liar as he was able to hide over $100K in cash from the prosecution, judge, and his own lawyer.
 
Furiounova said:
GZ has been proven to be a skilled liar as he was able to hide over $100K in cash from the prosecution, judge, and his own lawyer.
Click to expand...

still waiting for you to show me how he concealed money from the court/judge
from what i have observed, the court asked only his spouse and family about sources of money, not george
and as i also recall, his spouse told the court that there was a web account, that she did not know what it contained at the time of her testimony but directed the court to the person who was manageing the web site. the court declined to interview that person

i will look forward to seeing your evidence that GEORGE zimmerman lied to the court/judge
 
justabubba said:
still waiting for you to show me how he concealed money from the court/judge
from what i have observed, the court asked only his spouse and family about sources of money, not george
and as i also recall, his spouse told the court that there was a web account, that she did not know what it contained at the time of her testimony but directed the court to the person who was manageing the web site. the court declined to interview that person

i will look forward to seeing your evidence that GEORGE zimmerman lied to the court/judge
Click to expand...

Lol.....are you serious?? You need to read the order revoking bond as the judge clearly explained how he lied. I would tell you myself but you won't accept it so do a crazy thing and read the evidence yourself.

His own lawyer even admitted he and his wife lied
 
Furiounova said:
Lol.....are you serious?? You need to read the order revoking bond as the judge clearly explained how he lied. I would tell you myself but you won't accept it so do a crazy thing and read the evidence yourself.
Click to expand...

i read it
george never was questioned about his financial condition before the court
so show us how george lied to the court about his finances
 
justabubba said:
still waiting for you to show me how he concealed money from the court/judge
from what i have observed, the court asked only his spouse and family about sources of money, not george
and as i also recall, his spouse told the court that there was a web account, that she did not know what it contained at the time of her testimony but directed the court to the person who was manageing the web site. the court declined to interview that person

i will look forward to seeing your evidence that GEORGE zimmerman lied to the court/judge
Click to expand...

He lied to the court.

Here are recordings of his jailhouse phone conversations with his wife -- the reason they caught him at it in the first place. His attorney's defense was that GZ didn't know how that money could be used. GZ chose not to testify at the second bond hearing because he would have been cross-examined. He definitely lied. Stupid man. I'm thinking his attorneys flubbed that as his website was common knowledge, obviously. FULL DISCLOSURE. George Zimmerman's Jailhouse Calls To Wife Reveal Couple's Alleged Plan To Hide Funds (AUDIO)
 
So according to Zimmerman, Martin just ran up to him and sucker punched him. Then immediately after he struck him, Martin leapt on top of him and began banging his head against the ground.

So when did they start arguing like the witnesses claim?
 
MaggieD said:
He lied to the court.

Here are recordings of his jailhouse phone conversations with his wife -- the reason they caught him at it in the first place. His attorney's defense was that GZ didn't know how that money could be used. GZ chose not to testify at the second bond hearing because he would have been cross-examined. He definitely lied. Stupid man. I'm thinking his attorneys flubbed that as his website was common knowledge, obviously. FULL DISCLOSURE. George Zimmerman's Jailhouse Calls To Wife Reveal Couple's Alleged Plan To Hide Funds (AUDIO)
Click to expand...
all of that confirms that GEORGE zimmerman did NOT lie to the court, as has been (wrongly) alleged
 
Furiounova said:
You claim GZ asked "What are you doing here?" but GZ didn't say that is what he said in his first written statement. You better contact Omara asap to let GZ know what he said since you know better than him. After all, he wasn't the one who was there. You were.
Click to expand...

ric27 said:
It is not sufficient provocation to be sucker punched in the face (broken nose) and get you head slammed to the concrete even if you follow someone without just cause and asking them... "What are you doing here?"
Click to expand...



Keep assuming. Where specifically is Z stated above? Just like, the allegation that Z was talking about M when he used the words "as*sholes" and "f*cking punks."

You following me down a path and I don't know why, I run/get away, and then you finally catch up with me, I'm not allowed to respond by punching the **** out of you and slamming your head against the concrete

It is not an action that can be deemed to provoke such a violent physical attack from me.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom