A Question for shootists

sharon said:

Look at the Georges's holster and then watch his demonstration.. No doubt you will understand what I find impossible.

Click to expand...

There is a strong hand. There is no doubt about it. And that's ok. That's the way we are made. There are limitations imposed by shooting with the "other" hand. You just have to realize what they are.

ric27 said:

There is a strong hand. There is no doubt about it. And that's ok. That's the way we are made. There are limitations imposed by shooting with the "other" hand. You just have to realize what they are.

Click to expand...

I have never even tried to fire a gun with my left hand.

sharon said:

I have never even tried to fire a gun with my left hand.

Click to expand...

Don't feel to bad

In my experience, I've never met a person that shoots equally as well with either hand. People shoot better with their dominant hand PERIOD. To say otherwise is wrong.

sharon said:

Look at the Georges's holster and then watch his demonstration.. No doubt you will understand what I find impossible.

Click to expand...

Okay, I watched the stupid video.

Not satisfied, I got out my IWB and and unloaded sim gun and moved them to the cross-draw position. Then I had my 6'2" son get on top of me and pretend to beat me in the head, he was sitting on my lower gut with his knees on the ground... that was the position HE chose, I didn't coach him.

I found that while a cross-draw from this position was impossible, a same-side twist-draw (like I described earlier) was easy. I simply shifted my hips to one side a bit, slid my hand between his leg and my body, secured a twist-grip on the gun and pulled it to my chest. A split second later I had it aimed at HIS chest. Meanwhile I was using my off hand to protect my head while he pretended to pound me.

Very doable.

Incidentally, in ECQ I have SEEN guys draw their simgun upside-down and shoot it that way at point-blank grappling range, and hit their man. Hell I once drew backwards and used my thumb on the trigger to shoot the guy pinning me in the back. It is not so simon-simple once you've been where the rubber meets the road, all kinds of weird **** happens that's hard to explain to anyone who hasn't seen the elephant.

sharon said:

I don't think I'd care for that sort of hobby or sport... and I don't think Trayvon or Geroge were into that.

Click to expand...

BTW, it actually isn't a 'hobby or sport'. It is survival training, defensive handgun training and martial arts/grapping training all wrapped up into one... very serious business. When I did ECQC it was about two-thirds law enforcement and soldiers, with the rest being advanced civilian CCW shooters.

and one has to remember the shot came from a short distance. It was not like trying to hit something from 50 feet away.

Goshin said:

Okay, I watched the stupid video.

Not satisfied, I got out my IWB and and unloaded sim gun and moved them to the cross-draw position. Then I had my 6'2" son get on top of me and pretend to beat me in the head, he was sitting on my lower gut with his knees on the ground... that was the position HE chose, I didn't coach him.

I found that while a cross-draw from this position was impossible, a same-side twist-draw (like I described earlier) was easy. I simply shifted my hips to one side a bit, slid my hand between his leg and my body, secured a twist-grip on the gun and pulled it to my chest. A split second later I had it aimed at HIS chest. Meanwhile I was using my off hand to protect my head while he pretended to pound me.

Very doable.

Incidentally, in ECQ I have SEEN guys draw their simgun upside-down and shoot it that way at point-blank grappling range, and hit their man. Hell I once drew backwards and used my thumb on the trigger to shoot the guy pinning me in the back. It is not so simon-simple once you've been where the rubber meets the road, all kinds of weird **** happens that's hard to explain to anyone who hasn't seen the elephant.

Click to expand...

Wow.. I am convinced.. nice role playing. I read somewhere about a lady who acted it out with her husband on top using an ice cream scoop.. the kind with the little trigger. She concluded that it was doable but awkward.

Thank you for participating on my thread.

ric27 said:

Don't feel to bad

In my experience, I've never met a person that shoots equally as well with either hand. People shoot better with their dominant hand PERIOD. To say otherwise is wrong.

Click to expand...

Never too old to learn something new.. Thanks.

ric27 said:

There is a strong hand. There is no doubt about it. And that's ok. That's the way we are made. There are limitations imposed by shooting with the "other" hand. You just have to realize what they are.

Click to expand...

You're it again..

The kind of gun George had... Would it eject a spent shell in your face if you were trying to shoot in in a cramped up position? Would a gun like that have enough kick to injure your nose?

sharon said:

You're it again..

The kind of gun George had... Would it eject a spent shell in your face if you were trying to shoot in in a cramped up position? Would a gun like that have enough kick to injure your nose?

Click to expand...

Not Ric but I'll answer.

The gun pictured is a Kel-tec, I think it is their small 9mm. I've shot that type of firearm before. The one I fired ejects a bit forward and left.

If you were shooting from an ECQ position prone, you might or might not get hit by ejected brass. There are several popular positions, the most popular probably is Center-Lock with the gun held in both hands near the center sternum. Normally shooting Center-lock you don't get beaned by your own brass.

Even if you did, it is about like being hit by a flicked pebble, albeit a HOT pebble... it isn't going to break your nose or anything if that's what you're implying....

sharon said:

These are George's.. and I am still confused.

Click to expand...

That holster is left handed or right-handed depending on if he wore it inside-the-waist band or outside-the-waist band. If he wore it IWB, then it's left handed. If he wore OWB then it's right handed. It's my understanding that most CC handguns are worn IWB.

Still as Goshin and others have pointed out, it's possible to draw a pistol from a left-handed holster with your right hand and still end up with the gun pointing in the correct direction and orientation. So, the whole issue is really moot.

the_recruit said:

That holster is left handed or right-handed depending on if he wore it inside-the-waist band or outside-the-waist band. If he wore it IWB, then it's left handed. If he wore OWB then it's right handed. It's my understanding that most CC handguns are worn IWB.

Still as Goshin and others have pointed out, it's possible to draw a pistol from a left-handed holster with your right hand and still end up with the gun pointing in the correct direction and orientation. So, the whole issue is really moot.

Click to expand...

George wore his inside his waist band.

Do you have to say, I have a gun before you fire? I am looking for the rules.

Found this.

Display your gun, go to jail.

You should expect to be arrested by police at gunpoint, and be charged with a crime anytime your concealed handgun is seen by another citizen in public, regardless of how unintentional or innocent or justified the situation might seem. Choose a method of carry that keeps your gun reliably hidden from public view at all times.

You have no control over how a stranger will react to seeing (or learning about) your concealed handgun. He or she might become alarmed and report you to police as a "man or woman with a gun." Depending on his or her feelings about firearms, this person might be willing to maliciously embellish his or her story in attempt to have your gun seized by police or to get you arrested. An alarmed citizen who reports a "man with a gun" is going to be more credible to police than you when you're stopped because you match the suspect's description, and you're found to have a concealed handgun in your possession.

Before you deliberately expose your gun in public, ask yourself: "Is this worth going to jail for?" The only time this question should warrant a "yes" response is when an adversary has at least, both ability and intent, and is actively seeking the opportunity to do you great harm.

Don't let your emotions get the best of you.

If, despite your best efforts to the contrary, you do get into some kind of heated dispute with another person while you’re armed, never mention, imply or exhibit your gun for the purpose of intimidation or one-upmanship. You’ll simply make a bad situation worse -- for yourself (see rule #4).

FirearmsTactical.com - Home

Simon W. Moon said:

George Zimmerman's holster

Click to expand...

That's not the holster shown in the video as being Zimmerman's. The holster shown in the video as belonging to Zimmerman has the belt retainer on the opposite side.

But, I actually retracted my post a few posts down because I was originally thinking OWB. If it's worn IWB, then the holster you have shown is in fact a right-handed holster and my original post is correct and I retract my retraction. There. I'm sure that clears everything up. :lol:

From your photo, it looks like the retaining clip is just held on with a piece of velcro. It could be the case that the holster shown in the video and the holster you show are actually the same holster, and that holster has a strip of velcro on BOTH sides. Meaning, Zimmerman can attach the retaining clip to either side and switch between right-handed and left-handed whenever he wants. So, it's an ambidextrous holster and this conversation is pointless.

"The rules" vary from state to state.

the_recruit said:

That's not the holster shown in the video as being Zimmerman's. The holster shown in the video as belonging to Zimmerman has the belt retainer on the opposite side.

But, I actually retracted my post a few posts down because I was originally thinking OWB. If it's worn IWB, then the holster you have shown is in fact a right-handed holster and my original post is correct and I retract my retraction. There. I'm sure that clears everything up. :lol:

From your photo, it looks like the retaining clip is just held on with a piece of velcro. It could be the case that the holster shown in the video and the holster you show are actually the same holster, and that holster has a strip of velcro on BOTH sides. Meaning, Zimmerman can attach the retaining clip to either side and switch between right-handed and left-handed whenever he wants. So, it's an ambidextrous holster and this conversation is pointless.

Click to expand...

It looks like an Uncle Mike's nylon IWB with spring steel clip. Cheap POS.

the_recruit said:

That's not the holster shown in the video as being Zimmerman's. The holster shown in the video as belonging to Zimmerman has the belt retainer on the opposite side.

But, I actually retracted my post a few posts down because I was originally thinking OWB. If it's worn IWB, then the holster you have shown is in fact a right-handed holster and my original post is correct and I retract my retraction. There. I'm sure that clears everything up. :lol:

From your photo, it looks like the retaining clip is just held on with a piece of velcro. It could be the case that the holster shown in the video and the holster you show are actually the same holster, and that holster has a strip of velcro on BOTH sides. Meaning, Zimmerman can attach the retaining clip to either side and switch between right-handed and left-handed whenever he wants. So, it's an ambidextrous holster and this conversation is pointless.

Click to expand...

In fact, I'm 100% positive this is the case. If you look closely at your photo, you can see the corner of the velcro on the back side sticking out. So, Zimmerman's holster was ambidexterous and there's no way of knowing whether he was wearing it as right-handed or left-handed.

sharon said:

Do you have to say, I have a gun before you fire? I am looking for the rules.

Click to expand...

The answer in Florida at least and probably most states is that if you do that, it would demonstrate that you were not actually afraid of immediate bodilty harm/death if you did that. There are many cases where the shooter warned the victim that he was going to shoot or showed his gun prior to shooting - and SD was not approved.

buck said:

The answer in Florida at least and probably most states is that if you do that, it would demonstrate that you were not actually afraid of immediate bodilty harm/death if you did that. There are many cases where the shooter warned the victim that he was going to shoot - and SD was not approved.

Click to expand...

Really? I hadn't considered a downside to a warning..

Thanks

buck said:

The answer in Florida at least and probably most states is that if you do that, it would demonstrate that you were not actually afraid of immediate bodilty harm/death if you did that. There are many cases where the shooter warned the victim that he was going to shoot - and SD was not approved.

Click to expand...

That makes no sense at all and I do not believe you. Please cite that warning someone that you have a gun reduces your chance of being able to invoke self defense.

sharon said:

Really? I hadn't considered a downside to a warning..

Thanks

Click to expand...

Yeah... because he made it up. LOL

whysoserious said:

Yeah... because he made it up. LOL

Click to expand...

Not really, there are cases that I have read where the warning shot or bradishing the gun prior showed there was not a real fear for life. Think about it, if you have time to warn you have a gun or show the gun to warn someone away, it shows that the need to shoot someone was not due to an immediate fear of death and, if they had time to warn, did they have time to get away? Etc. I am sure there are some exceptions to that, but, in general.. at least acording to a few cases I have read back when this case first surfaced.

BTW, has anyeone taken a look at the new evidence released on GZlegalinfo? If so, post if anything seems interesting.

buck said:

Not really, there are cases that I have read where the warning shot or bradishing the gun prior showed there was not a real fear for life. Think about it, if you have time to warn you have a gun or show the gun to warn someone away, it shows that the need to shoot someone was not due to an immediate fear of death and, if they had time to warn, did they have time to get away? Etc. I am sure there are some exceptions to that, but, in general.

BTW, has anyeone taken a look at the new evidence released on GZlegalinfo? If so, post if anything seems interesting.

Click to expand...

But Zimmerman did have that time... plus this would make almost all legal shootings illegal. Cops always warn people first - because they know what they are doing.

The holster in that video looks like a lefthanded outside the belt holster to me...some holsters are amibidextrous and can be switched to be worn inside or outside...I didnt see the zimmerman demonstration...Im just waiting for the jury outcome myself...

lpast said:

The holster in that video looks like a lefthanded outside the belt holster to me...some holsters are amibidextrous and can be switched to be worn inside or outside...I didnt see the zimmerman demonstration...Im just waiting for the jury outcome myself...

Click to expand...

In Zimmerman's demonstration he said the gun was on his right hip and under his trousers.

whysoserious said:

But Zimmerman did have that time...

Click to expand...

If Zimm, in the middle of the alleged beating, pulled his gun out and said - I have a gun - it would be pretty persuasive evidence that he was not actually in fear of his life. Someone that is truly in fear will not warn, they will take action. If Zimm pulled out his gun in the middle of the alleged beating and shot into the air, same. It would show that he was not truly in immediate fear of life.

sharon said:

In Zimmerman's demonstration he said the gun was on his right hip and under his trousers.

Click to expand...

That would be a lefthanded inside the belt holster worn on his right hip for a cross the body draw...why he would do that I have no idea...but that would cause him to need to draw the weapon backwards if he was on his back and couldnt get his left hand across his body to draw and had to draw with his right hand...Im not saying this happened now...I already said I didnt see the video demonstration...but thats what im gathering from what you posted.