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Zimmerman harrassed a co-worker with racist taunts

BTW, since you keep saying, just wait until the EMTs testify about the injuries. The firefighter, the second to response to the scene indicated:

He said that Zimmerman's nose was "obviously deformed," agreeing with defense attorney Don West that the injury was consistent with a broken nose. But under questioning by Prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda, O'Rourke said he didn't diagnose Zimmerman with a broken nose.

I have never quibbled about the broken nose or black eyes.. but the EMT testified that the lacerations on GZ's head had stopped bleed when they arrived.
 
I have never quibbled about the broken nose or black eyes.. but the EMT testified that the lacerations on GZ's head had stopped bleed when they arrived.

I seem to recall you were one of those that claimed he did not have a broken nose. Broken nose is severe enough to equal aggravated assault and allow a self defense claim. The rest is just providing further evidence.
 
I seem to recall you were one of those that claimed he did not have a broken nose. Broken nose is severe enough to equal aggravated assault and allow a self defense claim....

not if TM was the one defending himself.
 
I seem to recall you were one of those that claimed he did not have a broken nose. Broken nose is severe enough to equal aggravated assault and allow a self defense claim. The rest is just providing further evidence.

No.. I did not.. If Trayvon punched him in the face hard enough to knock him down, a broken nose would likely.

You have me confused with someone else.
 
not if TM was the one defending himself.

Someone reaching for a phone, even if the other individual mistakenly believes they are reaching for a gun, is not justification to attac someone.
 
Someone reaching for a phone, even if the other individual mistakenly believes they are reaching for a gun, is not justification to attac someone.

if you stalk someone in your car and on foot, and then approach them in a hostile manner, you might get punched.
 
if you stalk someone in your car and on foot, and then approach them in a hostile manner, you might get punched.

And if the person that gets hit is afraid for their life after circumstances decribed by zimm and has a gun, a shooting will be justified.
 
And if the person that gets hit is afraid for their life after circumstances decribed by zimm and has a gun, a shooting will be justified.

wrong.

if you stalk someone and then initiate a confrontation that leads you to kill in self-defense....you can still go to prison.
 
not if TM was the one defending himself.

Difference is, Zimmerman has evidence he was being attacked. There were no other wounds on Martin, other than the gunshot wound, and his knuckles.

If Martin had ANY other injury that suggested he was punched, or hit, or slammed to the ground, you would have a point. But the evidence indicates that Martin had no other defensive injuries besides the gun shot wound.

That leads me to believe that he was the one doing the punching, not Zimmerman. Zimmerman sustained a broken nose, and had lacerations to the back of his head. Defensive wounds. This proves who was doing the punching.

Look, it can easily be proven, with evidence, that Zimmerman's motive was not to start a fight with Martin, and certainly not to kill him. He called the police. It makes perfect sense that Zimmerman left his car to keep Martin in his sight, or to question him. It can easily be proven that Z did not exit his car in pursuit of Martin with the intent of fighting him, or killing him.

So, if it wasn't Z's intent to fight Martin, or to kill him, what was his intent? Easy. It was to identify him, question him, or just keep Martin in his sights until police arrived to question him. But they ended up in a fight. Meaning, that the probability of Martin starting the fight is much higher than the probability that Z started the fight. Then you have the defensive wounds, and Zimmerman's claim that he called out for help.

It all ties together, and only makes sense one way.

If Z's motive was to fight Martin, why didn't he confront him when he was much closer to his car? Instead, he stayed in his car to observe Martin (we know this by what he's doing on the 911 call before Martin ran). If his motive was to kill Martin, why did he call the police to begin with?

On the 911 call, we can tell that Z is perfectly content "watching" or "keeping an eye" on Martin until the police arrive. It's when Martin runs that Z exits his car. If just seconds before, it's obvious Z is content with just "keeping an eye" on Martin, it only makes sense that his motive for leaving his car in pursuit is to keep Martin in his sight for when police arrive, he can locate him.

But of course, one would have to have the ability to "reason" in order to understand this.

No one who is bashing Z will talk about this. What was Z's motive for exiting his car? Was it to fight? no. Was it to kill? no. That can easily be proven WITH EVIDENCE.

Think for once. Listen carefully to the 911 call. Dispatcher tells Z just to sit tight and watch. Z's content response is "sure, ok". Clearly, he is content with just "watching" Martin. Then he says, "ya, he's checking me out good. He's coming towards me. Ya, he's coming over to get a better look at me. There's definately something wrong with this guy."

Then Martin runs, and Z says, "oh, oh, he's running". And you can hear Z exit his car.

Seconds later, the dispatcher says, "are you following him?" Z says, "yes". Dispatcher: "we dont need you to do that". Z: "ok". Seconds later, you know Z lost sight of Martin, because then he says, "oh man, HE RAN". Past tense. Proof. Evidence. Right there. Listen to his comments on the 911 tape. "he ran". Past tense. Indicating he had lost sight of Martin.

The conversation with dispatch continues. It's very clear that Zimmerman is no longer chasing Martin. He's not breathing heavily. He's calm in his responses. The rate of breathing is back to normal. And the conversation is about where the cop will be meeting Zimmerman once he arrives to take a statement from him. Call ends.

5 minutes later, police are on the scene, and Martin has already been shot. Zimmerman is bleeding from the nose and back of the head.

You don't have to be Matlock to piece this together. You just have to get the stupid pre-conceived biases out of your own way.
 
wrong.

if you stalk someone and then initiate a confrontation that leads you to kill in self-defense....you can still go to prison.

Prove he initiated the confrontation! Oh wait, even the special investigator said he couldn't prove that. When are you going to admit, that it's simply YOUR OPINION that Zimmerman initiated the fight.

I have quite a bit of circumstantial evidence that suggests Martin started the fight. And before you say circumstantial evidence isn't valid, you better think twice about that, because circumstantial evidence is often used to seek a conviction, or acquittal.

The circumstantial evidence I'm referring to rests in the 911 call between Zimmerman and the dispatcher. I can virtually prove Zimmerman is telling the truth, just based on the comments in his 911 call.

Here's where you really need to pay attention. After dispatch asks, "are you following him?", and Z says "yes", and dispatch says, "we dont need you to do that", and Z says, "ok". Right here. Pay close attention to the next minute and 45 seconds of that 911 call.

It is blatantly, and obviously clear, that Zimmerman is NO LONGER following Martin. He has lost sight of him. His conversation turns from Martin running, to where he will meet the cop en route. It's plain as day. He's not following anyone at that point. He says, "ah man, HE RAN". Past tense. Indicating he had lost Martin.

If he still had Martin in his sights, and Martin was still running, Z's comment would of been "he's running", not "he ran". Simple stuff here. This proves he obeyed the dispatcher, or, he simply lost Martin. Either way, he didn't continue to pursue him. Provable.

If you have ears, listen closely to the 911 call. It's crucial. Listen to the minute 45 after dispatch told Z they didn't need him to follow Martin.

That is evidence, and could effectively be used to strongly suggest Martin initiated the fight. Ask me how, and I'll tell ya!
 
there is no hard evidence for who started it.

all we have is the testimony of GZ...who is on trial for Murder

If they have no evidence that Zimm started it and can not disprove that he was actually in the process of returning to his car, Zimm wins. He was justfied in shooting Trayvon based on the circumstances described.
 
If they have no evidence that Zimm started it and can not disprove that he was actually in the process of returning to his car, Zimm wins. He was justfied in shooting Trayvon based on the circumstances described.

That appears to be your opinion, sir.
 
...He was justfied in shooting Trayvon based on the circumstances described.

the sad fact is, that even if GZ was defending himself, he can still be convicted of Manslaughter as he initiated the whole terrible story, by stalking Trayvon Martin.
 
the sad fact is, that even if GZ was defending himself, he can still be convicted of Manslaughter as he initiated the whole terrible story, by stalking Trayvon Martin.

That I disagree with. I think if Zimmerman was truly attacked, then this was just an unfortunate situation. However, unless there is evidence that Martin started the fight, I think Zimmerman should be charged with Manslaughter - at least.
 
That I disagree with. I think if Zimmerman was truly attacked, then this was just an unfortunate situation. However, unless there is evidence that Martin started the fight, I think Zimmerman should be charged with Manslaughter - at least.

if you stalk someone in your car and on foot, while uttering erratic profanities about the person you are stalking, and then get attacked by that person who you end up killing...you can indeed be convicted of Manslaughter as the whole event was due to your intimidating & provocative pursuit.
 
if you stalk someone in your car and on foot, while uttering erratic profanities about the person you are stalking, and then get attacked by that person who you end up killing...you can indeed be convicted of Manslaughter as the whole event was due to your intimidating & provocative pursuit.

Look, I am somewhat on your side. I agree Zimmerman should be put away. However, if there were a witness who actually could say without a doubt that Martin hid and attacked Zimmerman, then no, I don't think Zimmerman should go to jail.
 
if you stalk someone in your car and on foot, while uttering erratic profanities about the person you are stalking, and then get attacked by that person who you end up killing...you can indeed be convicted of Manslaughter as the whole event was due to your intimidating & provocative pursuit.

Completely wrong with no legal base to substantiate that disjointed and uncoordinated *wording* in this particular case
 
Look, I am somewhat on your side. I agree Zimmerman should be put away. However, if there were a witness who actually could say without a doubt that Martin hid and attacked Zimmerman, then no, I don't think Zimmerman should go to jail.

the law says that if you initiate an event, without just-cause, that ends up leading to the death of someone else, you have committed a crime.
 
the sad fact is, that even if GZ was defending himself, he can still be convicted of Manslaughter as he initiated the whole terrible story, by stalking Trayvon Martin.

You may not realize this, but Z returning to his car, and the prosecution has already stated they have no evidence to the contary, the entire thing resets and Trayvon becomes the instigator, even if Zimm were actually stalking up until that point.
 
You may not realize this, but Z returning to his car, and the prosecution has already stated they have no evidence to the contary, the entire thing resets and Trayvon becomes the instigator, even if Zimm were actually stalking up until that point.

None of it took place near Zimmerman's car...
 
You may not realize this, but Z returning to his car, and the prosecution has already stated they have no evidence to the contary, the entire thing resets and Trayvon becomes the instigator, even if Zimm were actually stalking up until that point.

there is NO evidence as to whom started the fight.
 
None of it took place near Zimmerman's car...

That hardly means that he wasn't in the process of returning to his car. Again, there is no evidence to contradict Zimm's statements.
 
That hardly means that he wasn't in the process of returning to his car. Again, there is no evidence to contradict Zimm's statements.

Oh I agree. He very well may have. I don't know what happened at that point, but whatever happened, it's a sad story.
 
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