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Video: George Zimmerman's Reenactment of Trayvon Martin Shooting [W:1340]

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Stardog said:
Interesting part from the end of the article. . .
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I always thought it was plausible that Zimmerman wanted to stop him or restrain him, somehow make sure he didn't get away. If he touched Tavon, then Tavon had a reason to get aggressive back. I have always believed that Zimmerman could have easily defused the situation if he just identified who he was.

But it's hard for me to believe the entirety of his story... that Martin kept cussing at him and telling him he was going to ****ing die. It's just hard to believe that.
 
Thunder said:
um, of course George is gonna portray the event in the best possible light for his defense. He is on trial for his life!

I see no reason to give him the benefit of the doubt, considering his recent dishonesty & his aggressive/angry mindset on the 9-11 tape.
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Yes, that's what "guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt" means. It means never giving any Defendant "the benefit of the doubt."

In fact, that is how the jury should be charged, "Ladies and Gentleman, you are not to give the Defendant, George Zimmerman, the benefit of the doubt. If you have any doubts as to whether the Defendant is guilty, you are to find him guilty."

Or at least some people think that way.

I don't have a real problem with Zimmerman on "bond." The prosecutor was specifically wanting a bond amount that would take every dollar and give it (permanently) to a bondsman specifically to take away Zimmerman having any money for defense. Zimmerman is an ordinary person of at best average intelligence and the whole power structure of government and the legal system, plus media, is openly trying to destroy him. That he lacked the intelligence to legally "hide" the money and continues to stupidly agree to give statements and testify (as did his wife) - and a "defense" team perpetually torpedoing him and now her in that regards - doesn't make him evil as you claim.
 
SheWolf said:
I always thought it was plausible that Zimmerman wanted to stop him or restrain him, somehow make sure he didn't get away. If he touched Tavon, then Tavon had a reason to get aggressive back. I have always believed that Zimmerman could have easily defused the situation if he just identified who he was.

But it's hard for me to believe the entirety of his story... that Martin kept cussing at him and telling him he was going to ****ing die. It's just hard to believe that.
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Yes, it is a fact that when in violent fights men go out of their way to be polite to each other and to assure the other man that there is no real intention to hurt him, not really.

On the otherhand, in violence that can happen. Someone (female) I know well was attacked in her house and the attacker repeatedly assured her that he wasn't going to hurt her, while beating her with a brick and otherwise assaulting her. So I suppose Martin could have been talking politely to Zimmerman while beating him up. And, of course, if so Zimmerman definitely should have believed the guy beating him up wasn't trying to hurt him.
 
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What if...? said:
Its not unusual to not know nearby street names, but how did he tell the cops where to go? Does he have memory issues?
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I can name the streets in my neighborhood.

It seems odd that GZ did not go to the intersection he had just come from where he could have seen the street sign for the street that he was on. I don't understand why GZ went to get an address where GZ wasn't for a street whose name he knew rather than get a street name for an address for where GZ was. If I recall the phone call between GZ and the dispatcher correctly, the ending agreement was that the police were going to call GZ and get his location at that point in time. So GZ didn't even need to have an address to give to the dispatcher. According to GZ he reached the otherside of the block while he was still on the phone w/ dispatch, iirc.
:shrug:

To hear GZ tell it, there was only time for him to walk about 30 or 40 yards between the time he got off the phone with the dispatcher/operator/w/e and when TM confronted him.
This doesn't jibe with the prosecutor's timeline nor with the Seminole County Sheriff's office's timeline of events which have a 2 - 4 minute gap between the time GZ got off the phone and when TM and GZ met up.
 
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Simon W. Moon said:
I can name the streets in my neighborhood.

It seems odd that GZ did not go to the intersection he had just come from where he could have seen the street sign for the street that he was on. I don't understand why GZ went to get an address where GZ wasn't for a street whose name he knew rather than get a street name for an address for where GZ was. If I recall the phone call between GZ and the dispatcher correctly, the ending agreement was that the police were going to call GZ and get his location at that point in time. So GZ didn't even need to have an address to give to the dispatcher. According to GZ he reached the otherside of the block while he was still on the phone w/ dispatch, iirc.
:shrug:

To hear GZ tell it, there was only time for him to walk about 30 or 40 yards between the time he got off the phone with the dispatcher/operator/w/e and when TM confronted him.
This doesn't jibe with the prosecutor's timeline nor with the Seminole County Sheriff's office's timeline of events which have a 2 - 4 minute gap between the time GZ got off the phone and when TM and GZ met up.
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You mean like the timeline shows that Martin was not "walking fast" home as his girlfriend claimed he told her. So we KNOW Martin LIED to his girlfriend, didn't he? Should I now post 150 messages over the next week explaining how nothing can be believed about what Martin supposedly told his girlfriend because HE LIED! HE LIED! HE LIED TO HER!" like some do about Zimmerman?

And, borrowing from Thunder, there should accordingly be NO doubt that Zimmerman's account is accurate and that NO benefit of doubt should be given to the conduct of Martin because he LIED! LIED! LIED!
 
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joko104 said:
Should I now post 150 messages over the next week explaining how nothing can be believed about what Martin supposedly told his girlfriend because HE LIED! HE LIED! HE LIED TO HER!" like some do about Zimmerman?
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Yes, please.
 
I am not quite clear yet, how the shooting happened.

TM sat up, ran his hand down GZ's chest, GZ trapped TM's arm, and at the same time drew his gun and was able to fire while pinning TM's arm under his own?
Sounds tricky.
 
Simon W. Moon said:
I can name the streets in my neighborhood.

It seems odd that GZ did not go to the intersection he had just come from where he could have seen the street sign for the street that he was on. I don't understand why GZ went to get an address where GZ wasn't for a street whose name he knew rather than get a street name for an address for where GZ was. If I recall the phone call between GZ and the dispatcher correctly, the ending agreement was that the police were going to call GZ and get his location at that point in time. So GZ didn't even need to have an address to give to the dispatcher. According to GZ he reached the otherside of the block while he was still on the phone w/ dispatch, iirc.
:shrug:

To hear GZ tell it, there was only time for him to walk about 30 or 40 yards between the time he got off the phone with the dispatcher/operator/w/e and when TM confronted him.
This doesn't jibe with the prosecutor's timeline nor with the Seminole County Sheriff's office's timeline of events which have a 2 - 4 minute gap between the time GZ got off the phone and when TM and GZ met up.
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Was his official claim that he was walking back to his truck?
 
Simon W. Moon said:
I am not quite clear yet, how the shooting happened.

TM sat up, ran his hand down GZ's chest, GZ trapped TM's arm, and at the same time drew his gun and was able to fire while pinning TM's arm under his own?
Sounds tricky.
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I think it kind of does too... as he demonstrated it, he trapped his hand with the same hand he killed him with. Sounds tricky, unless he reached over with his other hand and slightly turned to the side. I think it would be difficult to trap somebody's hand against your side like that. I know I would struggle, cause the other person has their entire upper strength to fight. I can't force my arm against my body very hard... it seems like a muscle we don't use much
 
Simon W. Moon said:
I am not quite clear yet, how the shooting happened.

TM sat up, ran his hand down GZ's chest, GZ trapped TM's arm, and at the same time drew his gun and was able to fire while pinning TM's arm under his own?
Sounds tricky.
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Tavon caressed his side...
 
Thunder said:
lucky for George, the prosecutor wasn't there to ask questions or provide conflicting evidence.
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Why? The prosecutor doesn't care about evidence so it would make no difference. She has her now admittedly perjured affidavit from one of the officers for the warrant and case, the defense is in the prosecutions' pocket as is the judge, and the jury will be stacked by that same judge. Zimmerman killed the president's son so facts and evidence are irrelevant.
 
Simon W. Moon said:
I am not quite clear yet, how the shooting happened.

TM sat up, ran his hand down GZ's chest, GZ trapped TM's arm, and at the same time drew his gun and was able to fire while pinning TM's arm under his own?
Sounds tricky.
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Here's the short version. From above Martin reached for Zimmerman's gun as did Zimmerman. Zimmerman got his hand on his pistol first so won that split second race over which one of the died.
If Martin reached between Zimmerman's arm and body, and Zimmerman rolled his body either way, that would have momentarily snagged up Martin's left arm.
There is no way that Zimmerman or anyone could a micro-second by micro-second explanation of what happened.
 
Now it's simple to see what happened. Zimmerman was perched atop a building casting a watching eye over the innocent citizens of the crime-infested gated community. It was then that he saw Trayvon Martin and so he instinctively used his psychic power which revealed to him that Martin was thinking about breaking and entering in order to distract himself from the powerful high he obtained earlier that day from using all drugs at the same time.

Martin jumped of the building, soaring down several hundred feet and falling directly through the open sun roof, landing gracefully in the driver's seat. But Martin hit the truck with the bazooka he was carrying and Zimmerman's car exploded, completely disintegrating. Martin attacked Zimmerman, using one hand to pin him down, another hand to punch with, and his third hand reached for Zimmerman's gun.

Luckily, Zimmerman transformed into the Incredible Hulkerman at that very moment, throwing Martin off of him and shooting him just in time. Martin said, "you've got me," and winked at Zimmerman as if to say "the best man truly won tonight, did he not?" Zimmerman, pleased to rid the gated community of another thug, jumped up and flew away to save Princess Leia and the returned to earth where he mounted his horse and departed into the brilliant orange rising sun. The prophecy had been fulfilled: he was the one known as the Kwisatz Hadderach
 
SheWolf said:
I think it kind of does too... as he demonstrated it, he trapped his hand with the same hand he killed him with. Sounds tricky, unless he reached over with his other hand and slightly turned to the side. I think it would be difficult to trap somebody's hand against your side like that. I know I would struggle, cause the other person has their entire upper strength to fight. I can't force my arm against my body very hard... it seems like a muscle we don't use much
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Zimmerman had his entire upper body weight to wedge against Martin's left arm. But this is so split second to split second who knows? I doubt Zimmerman knows other than his reflective sense of what exactly happened. Really in real terms what I hear him explain is that there was a very brief stuggle over the gun and Zimmerman won it. I really doubt even he knows exactly where every body part of himself and Martin was at millisecond to millisecond. And Zimmerman could be outright lying. But the presumption is innocence unless totally proven guilty.

I think Zimmerman wants to show it is innocent, but that's not the question. The question is whether it is provable beyond any reasonable doubt that he committed the criminal offense of murder. It is not illegal to kill someone. It is illegal to murder someone.
 
Stardog said:
Interesting part from the end of the article. . .
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"Trayvon Benjamin Martin…He was 17…A kid with a future," said Serino. "In his possession we found a can of ice tea and a bag of Skittles. And $40 in cash. Not the goon."

not the goon? I wonder if he was saying something else and it was misunderstood.

I also wonder how that made Zimmer feel.
 
buck said:
I'm actually in the process of listening to that tape now. You can tell that Serino is doubtful of Zimm, although everything that I have heard up to this point makes Zimm's story more believable. Zimm really should have requested an attorney, especially with the slightly hostile interview by serino. Zimm probably just thought I did nothing wrong, I have nothing to hide, I don't need a lawyer.
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In one of the interviews with other witnesses, serino asks a woman, who had said she knew him him from the community meetings, if Zimmerman "was a nazi"? Seriously.
 
Just a technical detail that sort of factors in.

"Impulse" personal defense handguns like his Kel-Tec generally do not have any safety lock and are kept with a round chambered. This applies to almost all smaller personal defense handguns - pistol or revolver.

So when that gun came out, pressure on the trigger either by deliberate shooting, trying to hold onto it so squeezing hard, a hand struggle etc and the gun fires. There is no necessity or even possibility to first release the safety as most have none.

How Zimmerman described Martin's actions when he was hit by a 9mm is plausible. A 9mm doesn't have a great deal of knockdown power and a heart or near heart hit would allow the person to live - a few seconds anyway.

I think it is notable that Zimmerman fired only once. His curious trying to pin down Martin after Martin shot and possibly even dead show Zimmerman was in full panic mode. Panic and terror are very powerful emotions leading to uncontrollable and even irrational acts and can even be physically and/or mentally paralyzing.

Contrary to those who claim Zimmerman was looking to kill a black man, I think it seems clear that Zimmerman had no clue what he was getting himself into and never comtemplated it becoming violent until he was on the ground with his face smashed and then someone on top of him. At that point he (and maybe Martin too) were both in fundamental, primative survival mode in a panic, terror and possibly also raging sense.

Anyone who had never been in a true fight-for-your life can't really grasp the extreme emotions and intense motivations that come into play - and the sense of terror that rises - that can be fully crippling or very physically impowering - if you believe you are losing. Noobs to fights - and I think Zimmerman was - likely will go into the terror/panick mode. An experienced fighter more likely will go into an impowered and possibly also raging mode. Only the one losing generally is in the terror/panic mode. The winner can be in emotional the rush of winning.
 
joko104 said:
Zimmerman rolled his body either way, that would have momentarily snagged up Martin's left arm.
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GZ's action seem to indicate that he had trapped M's arm with his arm. If GZ was laying on his own arm, wouldn't that have made it tricky to draw a weapon and point it with that arm while he was laying on it?
 
joko104 said:
You mean like the timeline shows that Martin was not "walking fast" home as his girlfriend claimed he told her. So we KNOW Martin LIED to his girlfriend, didn't he? Should I now post 150 messages over the next week explaining how nothing can be believed about what Martin supposedly told his girlfriend because HE LIED! HE LIED! HE LIED TO HER!" like some do about Zimmerman?

And, borrowing from Thunder, there should accordingly be NO doubt that Zimmerman's account is accurate and that NO benefit of doubt should be given to the conduct of Martin because he LIED! LIED! LIED!
Click to expand...

Bear in mind that in light of the fact that their interaction began on retreat view circle, not near the clubhouse as was ooriginally believed, all the calls and the gf's testimony have to be "re-applied".

And when did M "run"? Before or after the "circling" episode?
 
What if...? said:
And when did M "run"? Before or after the "circling" episode?
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Iirc, GZ says that TM ran more than once. Once whil GZ was parked at the clubhouse and then again after GZ moved his truck to the cut through.
 
joko104 said:
Just a technical detail that sort of factors in.

"Impulse" personal defense handguns like his Kel-Tec generally do not have any safety lock and are kept with a round chambered. This applies to almost all smaller personal defense handguns - pistol or revolver.

So when that gun came out, pressure on the trigger either by deliberate shooting, trying to hold onto it so squeezing hard, a hand struggle etc and the gun fires. There is no necessity or even possibility to first release the safety as most have none.

How Zimmerman described Martin's actions when he was hit by a 9mm is plausible. A 9mm doesn't have a great deal of knockdown power and a heart or near heart hit would allow the person to live - a few seconds anyway.

I think it is notable that Zimmerman fired only once. His curious trying to pin down Martin after Martin shot and possibly even dead show Zimmerman was in full panic mode. Panic and terror are very powerful emotions leading to uncontrollable and even irrational acts and can even be physically and/or mentally paralyzing.

Contrary to those who claim Zimmerman was looking to kill a black man, I think it seems clear that Zimmerman had no clue what he was getting himself into and never comtemplated it becoming violent until he was on the ground with his face smashed and then someone on top of him. At that point he (and maybe Martin too) were both in fundamental, primative survival mode in a panic, terror and possibly also raging sense.

Anyone who had never been in a true fight-for-your life can't really grasp the extreme emotions and intense motivations that come into play - and the sense of terror that rises - that can be fully crippling or very physically impowering - if you believe you are losing. Noobs to fights - and I think Zimmerman was - likely will go into the terror/panick mode. An experienced fighter more likely will go into an impowered and possibly also raging mode. Only the one losing generally is in the terror/panic mode. The winner can be in emotional the rush of winning.
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You're arguing that all people behave the same when and if they think their life is in danger. I don't really believe that is true given many different situations... going into survival mode is different to different people
 
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