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New report says a witness claims Martin threw punches MMA style [W: 1873]

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Thunder said:
holy crap, you guys really hate experts huh?

anything to disregard facts that disagree with your pre-conceived notions of truth, I guess.
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Actually, troll, he doesn't disagree with me, but continue on trolling.

The person who brought him up, SheWolf, was unaware that she was misreading what he said.
 
Thunder said:
edited for truth.

and thank you. :)
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Are you sure misquoting/changing a quote of someone like that is allowed in the regular forums?
 
Caine said:
Do you know what vertical means? Vertical is up and down, vertical would mean standing up. Horizontal would mean laying down.
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lol
Ya know, I read that and it registered, but I got so caught up in the other point of her claiming he said, when the injury occurred, when all he said was, when the bleeding occurred, that I let that slip my mind.
lol
:doh:doh:doh:doh:doh
 
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Thunder said:
holy crap, you guys really hate experts huh?

anything to disregard facts that disagree with your pre-conceived notions of truth, I guess.
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Holy crap is right.
You don't understand what is being said, as usual.
Both Caine and I pointing out what he actually said is not liking experts?
 
Thunder said:
turning a personal attack..into a compliment?

:lamo
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I don't care, I will call a troll a troll.

The mods do it in the regular forums and get away with it, and so will I.

Anyone with 25K posts in less than a year is a troll.
 
I didn't say he was standing up, it was stated in the article I linked.
 
Caine said:
Dude, witnesses who change their story, especially in such a media hyped case like this one, lose much credibility with me. In addition, anytime a witness says, "I think", there testimony is worthless. Any time a witness claims to know what happened, physically, at a place when they have only HEARD a sound and are letting their mind fill in the details, their testimony is worthless to me.
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Trayvon Martin Case: Witnesses Change Accounts, Which Could Hurt Zimmerman
Four witnesses in Trayvon Martin case change their stories

Witness 12: Went from not knowing who was on top to believing Zimmerman was on top due to seeing him on the news and comparing sizes.
Witness 6: Martin on top raining down punches to just Martin on top.
Witness 13: Didn't really change his story, just added that he thought Zimmerman seemed a bit nonchalant about shooting someone.

Now it appears you don't give a **** about changing stories, since you and everyone else continue to quote Witness 6's original story and ignore that he has since recanted. So while you don't find him trustworthy, you have, of course, decided which part of his story is true based off of what fits your taste. Real classy.

Caine said:
Of course I was removing all context from the situation, we were discussing people's attitudes about attacking someone who is following them regardless of the KNOWN reason. Specifically, It was a demonstration of how stupid it is for a person to say they would attack someone for following them without a reason. However, how would that person know what that reason was unless they at least bothered to ask first.
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Yeah, they might say something like, "why are you following me?", amiright Caine? Of course, whatever happened after that is an assumption, but you are way ahead of us on that. You know who started it, why, when, where and what. I mean, you don't know that, but you like to think you do.
 
whysoserious said:
Witness 12: Went from not knowing who was on top to believing Zimmerman was on top due to seeing him on the news and comparing sizes.
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First of all her account is one of belief. It is not substantial.
Her changing her account makes her account even more unsubstantial.

lol She was influence by the fat picture of Zimmerman.:doh
That should be notable to anybody.
But you want to ignore it.


whysoserious said:
Now it appears you don't give a **** about changing stories, since you and everyone else continue to quote Witness 6's original story and ignore that he has since recanted.
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No we don't.
He still puts Trayvon on top.



whysoserious said:
You know who started it, why, when, where and what. I mean, you don't know that, but you like to think you do.
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Zimmerman's account is evidence.



But before you go talking about recanting stories, you might want to get a better perspective on witness accounts.

Monday, 28 May 2012 09:30
Experts Weigh in After Four Witnesses in Trayvon Martin Case Change Story

...
Other experts have noted that the earliest accounts are probably also the most reliable. "All other things equal, earlier recountings are more likely to be accurate than later ones,” Stanford University psychology Professor Barbara Tversky was quoted as saying by the Scientific American. “The longer the delay, the more likely that subsequent information will get confused with the target memory."
...​
Experts Weigh in After Four Witnesses in Trayvon Martin Case Change Story​
 
Excon said:
First of all her account is one of belief. It is not substantial.
Her changing her account makes her account even more unsubstantial.

lol She was influence by the fat picture of Zimmerman.:doh
That should be notable to anybody.
But you want to ignore it.



No we don't.
He still puts Trayvon on top.



Zimmerman's account is evidence.



But before you go talking about recanting stories, you might want to get a better perspective on witness accounts.

Monday, 28 May 2012 09:30
Experts Weigh in After Four Witnesses in Trayvon Martin Case Change Story

...
Other experts have noted that the earliest accounts are probably also the most reliable. "All other things equal, earlier recountings are more likely to be accurate than later ones,” Stanford University psychology Professor Barbara Tversky was quoted as saying by the Scientific American. “The longer the delay, the more likely that subsequent information will get confused with the target memory."
...​
Experts Weigh in After Four Witnesses in Trayvon Martin Case Change Story​
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The only thing these people have ever been clear about is that they aren't sure of anything. Of course, you and Caine know everything that happened and anything else that's said is bull**** - even if you basically just made up your side of the story. It would be funny if it weren't so sad. Or to quote Pink Floyd:

"You're nearly a laugh
But you're really a cry."

 
Excon said:
Since you failed to read and comprehend the first time, let me repeat it again.


Do you have trouble comprehending what you read?
Never mind. I seemed to forget who I was talking to.

Do you see the lack of his striking Zimmerman first and breaking his nose and knocking him to the ground?
That would be acceptable self-defense.
But to continue after subduing the him, by jumping on top and repeatedly slamming his head into the ground is not.
It is an aggravated assault, which placed Zimmerman in a position of fearing GBH or LOL.


Wrong!

1.) Zimmerman did not pursue, but followed, and it was done for legitimate purpose.
2.) You have no evidence that he was acting in self-defense.
3.) Continuing to assault the other person once you have subdued them is not Self-defense.
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If the judge refuses to dismiss the case agaisnt Zimmerman, as stand your ground self-defense, or ordinary self defense, and the case goes to trial by a jury, what factors should be considered by the jury?

There is evidence that Zimmerman's following Trayvon produced fear in Trayvon. What were these fears?

Did Zimmerman take a flop, to set up Trayvon?

Did Zimmerman, becasue of Stalking, and refusal to justify his Stalking, have a duty to try to escape, or retreat, from Trayvon's assault? Is there anything in Zimmerman's testimony indicating that he tried to get up and run, once he was hit by Trayvon?

Was Zimmerman guilty of Assault by intimidation in his manner of Stalking and refusing to answer Trayvon's question, "Why are yoru following me?"

Should the fact that Trayvon was underage, and if Zimmerman was guilty of aggression, nullify the right to Stand Your Ground for Zimmerman?

If Trayvon thought that Zimmerman was trying to defend some area of turf, some gang territory, from which Trayvon was being expelled, how long would Trayvon have to continue the fisticuffs, in order to dissuade Zimmerman from trying to enforce the turf territory?



//
 
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whysoserious said:
The only thing these people have ever been clear about is that they aren't sure of anything.
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Then whats all the commotion? *If* nothing's clear and nobody is sure of anything.....thats mean....DOUBT

And if there is doubt...
 
ric27 said:
Then whats all the commotion? *If* nothing's clear and nobody is sure of anything.....thats mean....DOUBT

And if there is doubt...
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And if there is doubt... you have an unarmed person who was shot.
 
I think the moderators will close this thread at 200 pages...
 
Gladiator said:
If the judge refuses to dismiss the case agaisnt Zimmerman, as stand your ground self-defense, or ordinary self defense, and the case goes to trial by a jury, what factors should be considered by the jury?

There is evidence that Zimmerman's following Trayvon produced fear in Trayvon. What were these fears?

Did Zimmerman take a flop, to set up Trayvon?

Did Zimmerman, becasue of Stalking, and refusal to justify his Stalking, have a duty to try to escape, or retreat, from Trayvon's assault? Is there anything in Zimmerman's testimony indicating that he tried to get up and run, once he was hit by Trayvon?

Was Zimmerman guilty of Assault by intimidation in his manner of Stalking and refusing to answer Trayvon's question, "Why are yoru following me?"

Should the fact that Trayvon was underage, and if Zimmerman was guilty of aggression, nullify the right to Stand Your Ground for Zimmerman?

If Trayvon thought that Zimmerman was trying to defend some area of turf, some gang territory, from which Trayvon was being expelled, how long would Trayvon have to continue the fisticuffs, in order to dissuade Zimmerman from trying to enforce the turf territory?
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:doh:doh:doh
 
Moderator's Warning:
Thread is approaching the 2k limit so going to go ahead and close it before I forget.
 
Caine said:
I don't care, I will call a troll a troll.

The mods do it in the regular forums and get away with it, and so will I.

Anyone with 25K posts in less than a year is a troll.
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Moderator's Warning:
Knock it off, Caine.
 
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