• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

New report says a witness claims Martin threw punches MMA style [W: 1873]

Status
Not open for further replies.
Why does Trayvon's girlfriend say that Trayvon told her that he,Trayvon, was afraid of Zimmerman, before there was an exchange of words between Zimmerman and Trayvon? Did Zimmerman ever tell the police that Trayvon had not seen him, Zimmerman, folowing Trayvon?

Trayvon's girlfriend heard the exchange of words before the fisticuffs, and concluded that Zimmerman was speaking in an intimidating manner.

Trayvon told his girlfriend that Zimmerman's actions, before the exchange of words made him afraid of Zimmerman. Did Zimmerman's words to Trayvon, before fisticuffs, make Tray more afraid, or less afraid of Zimmerman's intentions?

Where is the proof that Zimmerman did not try to create a scenerio to kill Tayvon, the first few moments Zimmerman observed Trayvon?

Had Zimmerman tried to ge other suspects he followed to attack him, so he could kill them? But Zimmerman had failed, in the past to get any of hhis suspects to attack him?



//

Beside the fact that I don't put allot of weight into her phone call version of events...It simply doesn't make sense. Trayvon was younger, taller, lighter and appeared to be far more athletic than Zimmerman, not to mention he had a lead on him.
How exactly would it be possible for Zimmerman to chase down Martin and confront him? The only way I see this confrontation as being possible is if Martin wanted it to happen. I simply don't see Zimmerman beating Martin in a foot race. Certainly not if Martin was indeed scared and was making his best effort to get back to his house.

There are some wholes in this story we are waiting to be filled but some of it just doesn't make sense.
 
That is why it is Second degree murder, is because Zimmerman was intending to enrage Trayvon, then fall on the ground, so Tayvon had to continue punching Zimmerman on the ground. Zimmerman waited till he was sure there were some witnesses to Trayvon punching him, then he deliberately aimed at Trayvon's heart, and shot-to-kill Trayvon. Zimmerman was trying from the start to set up Trayvon.



//


Please tell me this is some form of sarcasm........
 
Please show that he was attacked and not vice versa? Why would you assume that rather than the guy who was doing the stalking maybe trying to perform a "citizens arrest"? It's total ignorance on all of you republican's parts to assume that Martin started the fight. Assumptions like that are dangerous - but it's the reason the republican party exists. They assume rather than finding out facts.

Either person could have started the fight - a fight that isn't even really proven to have occurred yet - and I believe it is really going to be Zimmerman's duty to show a fight occurred, Martin started it, and the attack was vicious. Good luck to him.

A. Im not a ****ing republican.

B. Im ASSUMING Trayvon attacked because Zimmerman Said so... and nobody has been able to PROVE otherwise (thats how this **** works).

C. You mention finding out the facts. Yet you are unable to tell me who started the fight.

D. The poster that I was responding to.... WHO WAS NOT YOU.... was running with the ASSUMPTION that Trayvon attacked first. My response was to THEM not to YOU who refuses to believe anything unless it is negative about Zimmerman.

E. It isn't Zimmerman's duty to prove anything. He gave his statement, it is the prosecution's job to prove him wrong. Thats how the criminal justice system works bub.
 
Beside the fact that I don't put allot of weight into her phone call version of events...It simply doesn't make sense. Trayvon was younger, taller, lighter and appeared to be far more athletic than Zimmerman, not to mention he had a lead on him.
How exactly would it be possible for Zimmerman to chase down Martin and confront him? The only way I see this confrontation as being possible is if Martin wanted it to happen. I simply don't see Zimmerman beating Martin in a foot race. Certainly not if Martin was indeed scared and was making his best effort to get back to his house.

There are some wholes in this story we are waiting to be filled but some of it just doesn't make sense.

It is true, that Trayvon did not retreat from Zimmerman. But Florida has a Stand Your Ground law, so Trayvon had not duty to retreat.

Also, Zimmerman had Trayvon cornered. Trayvon may have been fearful of Zimmerman, who followed Tayvon from outside the gated commuinity, to inside the gated community, and Trayvon may have been fearful to Zimmerman finding out his address, where he was staying. So Trayvon had a right to confront Zimmerman, anywhere, because Trayvon had a reasoable basis to fear Zimmerman.

Trayvon apprently became mroe afraid of Zimmerman, after the verbal exchange, as conveyed by Trayvon's girlfriend. Did Trayvon attack Zimmerman physically because Trayvon was afraid of Zimmerman? Was Trayvon trying to rob Zimmerman? Zimmerman never reported he was afraid of Trayvon, until Zimmerman was fearful of getting knocked unconscious, and moved on his back, off of the sidewalk, onto the grass.

Did Trayvon just want Zimmerman to stop following him, so he could go the residence where he was staying?




//
 
Last edited:
The defendant's account is evidence that the defendant is not guilty? What ****ing world am I living in right now?



Prove he assaulted Zimmerman without using Zimmerman's "infallible" defense. Show that Martin attacked Zimmerman, that Zimmerman did not provoke it, and prove that there was an actual fight as well.

Can the defendant's account be shown to be incorrect with evidence?

No?

Then the defendant's account is proof that the defendant is not guilty.
 
The SPD has stated the killing was "avoidable".. Hit google..

So are deaths caused by someone who runs a red light and hits another vehicle.

But they aren't charged with 2nd degree murder (unless they are drunk).
 
he pursued Martin, not merely "observe him". He also questioned Martin.

it is for these reasons that the police wanted to charge him with Manslaughter and felt he could have totally avoided the altercation.

I know of no laws that state you can't follow someone suspicious in your neighborhood while you have the police already on their way.

I know of no laws that say you cannot ask someone who was wandering around your neighborhood a question.
 
Beside the fact that I don't put allot of weight into her phone call version of events...It simply doesn't make sense. Trayvon was younger, taller, lighter and appeared to be far more athletic than Zimmerman, not to mention he had a lead on him.
How exactly would it be possible for Zimmerman to chase down Martin and confront him? The only way I see this confrontation as being possible is if Martin wanted it to happen. I simply don't see Zimmerman beating Martin in a foot race. Certainly not if Martin was indeed scared and was making his best effort to get back to his house.

There are some wholes in this story we are waiting to be filled but some of it just doesn't make sense.

Well... it was taking him almost an hour to walk .6 miles from the store back to the house...............

That tends to happen when you are Robotrippin' (High off Robotussin)
 
Please tell me this is some form of sarcasm........

This is the prosecution's case for Charging Zimmerman with Second Degree Murder. Read their affidavit.


OFFICE OF THE STATE ATTORNEY
FOURTH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT of FLORIDA
ANGELA B. COREY
STATE ATTORNEY
STATE OF FLORIDA VS. GEORGE ZIMMERMAN
EIGHTEENTH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT, SEMINOLE COUNTY FLORIDA

AFFIDAVIT OF PROBABLE CAUSE - SECOND DEGREE MURDER

Before me, personally appeared T.C. O'Steen and K.D. Gilbreath, who after being duly sworn; deposes and says:

Your affiants, Investigators T.C. O'Steen, and Dale Gilbreath are members of the State Attorney Office - Fourth Judicial Circuit appointed in the case by State Attorney Angela B. Corey, who was assigned in the case under Executive Order of the Governor 12-72.

Investigator O'Steen was previously employed by the Jacksonville Sheriff's Office, and has 35 years of law enforcement experience, including 20 years handling homicide investigations. Investigator Gilbreath was previously employed by the Jacksonville, Sheriff's Office, and has 36 years of law enforcement experience, including 24 years handling homicide investigations.

Your affiants, along with other law enforcement officials have taken sworn statements from witnesses, spoken with law enforcement officers who have provided sworn testimony in reports, reviewed other reports, recorded statements, phone records, recorded calls to police, photographs, videos and other documents in detailing the following:

On Sunday, 2/26/12, Trayvon Martin was temporarily living at the Retreat at Twin lakes, a gated community in Sanford, Seminole County, Florida. That evening Marin walked to a nearby 7-11 store where he purchased a can of iced tea and a bag of skittles, Martin then walked back to entered the gated community and was on his way back to the townhouse where he was living when he was profiled by George Zimmerman. Martin was unarmed and was not committing a crime.

Zimmerman who also lived in the gated community, and was driving his vehicle observed Martin and assumed Martin was a criminal. Zimmerman felt Martin did not belong in the gated community and called the police. Zimmerman spoke to the dispatcher and asked for an officer to respond because Zimmerman perceived that Martine was acting suspicious. The police dispatcher informed Zimmerman that an officer was on the way and to wait for the officer.

During the recorded call Zimmerman made reference to people he felt had committed and gotten away with break-ins in his neighborhood. Later while talking about Martin, Zimmerman stated "these assholes, they always get away" and also said "these ****ing punks".

During this time, Martin was on the phone with a friend and described to her what was happening. The witness advised that Martin was scared because he was being followed through the complex by an unknown male and didn't know why. Martin attempted to run home but was followed by Zimmerman who didn't want the person he falsely assumed was going to commit a crime to get away before the police arrived. Zimmerman got out of his vehicle and followed Martin. When the police dispatcher realized Zimmerman's was pursuing Martin, he instructed Zimmerman not to do that and that the responding officer would meet him. Zimmerman disregarded the police dispatcher and continued to follow Martin who was trying to return to his home.

Zimmerman confronted Martin and a struggle ensued. Witnesses heard people arguing and what sounded like a struggle. During this time period witnesses heard numerous called for help and some of these were recorded in 911 calls to police. Trayvon Martin's mother has reviewed the 911 calls and identified the voice crying for help as Trayvon martin's voice.

Zimmerman shot Martin in the chest. When police arrived Zimmerman admitted shooting Martin. Officers recovered a gun from a holster inside Zimmerman's waistband. A fired casing that was recovered at the scene was determined to have been fired from the firearm.

Assistant Medical Examiner Dr. Bao Performed an autopsy and determined that Martin died from the gunshot wound.

The facts mentioned in this affidavit are not a complete recitation of all the pertinent facts and evidence in the case but only are presented for a determination of Probable Cause for Second Degree Murder.

By: Investigator T.C. O'Steen, Affiant
By: Investigator Dale Gilbreath, Affiant

Sworn to and subscribed before me
This 11th day of April, 2012
Jennifer Weigel
Notary Public, State of Florida at Large



//
 
So are deaths caused by someone who runs a red light and hits another vehicle.

But they aren't charged with 2nd degree murder (unless they are drunk).

You can read up on the definition of vehicular manslaughter in FL as well.
 
That is why it is Second degree murder, is because Zimmerman was intending to enrage Trayvon, then fall on the ground, so Tayvon had to continue punching Zimmerman on the ground. Zimmerman waited till he was sure there were some witnesses to Trayvon punching him, then he deliberately aimed at Trayvon's heart, and shot-to-kill Trayvon. Zimmerman was trying from the start to set up Trayvon.




//



ROFL...first how the HELL do you know that zimmerman while being pounded by martin just "WAITED" for witness's to show up...and then aimed intentionally for his heart....when you can demonstrate how you "KNOW" that let us know..
 
This is the prosecutions case for Charging Zimmerman with Second Degree Murder. Read their affidavit.


OFFICE OF THE STATE ATTORNEY
FOURTH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT of FLORIDA
ANGELA B. COREY
STATE ATTORNEY
STATE OF FLORIDA VS. GEORGE ZIMMERMAN
EIGHTEENTH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT, SEMINOLE COUNTY FLORIDA

AFFIDAVIT OF PROBABLE CAUSE - SECOND DEGREE MURDER

Before me, personally appeared T.C. O'Steen and K.D. Gilbreath, who after being duly sworn; deposes and says:

Your affiants, Investigators T.C. O'Steen, and Dale Gilbreath are members of the State Attorney Office - Fourth Judicial Circuit appointed in the case by State Attorney Angela B. Corey, who was assigned in the case under Executive Order of the Governor 12-72.

Investigator O'Steen was previously employed by the Jacksonville Sheriff's Office, and has 35 years of law enforcement experience, including 20 years handling homicide investigations. Investigator Gilbreath was previously employed by the Jacksonville, Sheriff's Office, and has 36 years of law enforcement experience, including 24 years handling homicide investigations.

Your affiants, along with other law enforcement officials have taken sworn statements from witnesses, spoken with law enforcement officers who have provided sworn testimony in reports, reviewed other reports, recorded statements, phone records, recorded calls to police, photographs, videos and other documents in detailing the following:

On Sunday, 2/26/12, Trayvon Martin was temporarily living at the Retreat at Twin lakes, a gated community in Sanford, Seminole County, Florida. That evening Marin walked to a nearby 7-11 store where he purchased a can of iced tea and a bag of skittles, Martin then walked back to entered the gated community and was on his way back to the townhouse where he was living when he was profiled by George Zimmerman. Martin was unarmed and was not committing a crime.

Zimmerman who also lived in the gated community, and was driving his vehicle observed Martin and assumed Martin was a criminal. Zimmerman felt Martin did not belong in the gated community and called the police. Zimmerman spoke to the dispatcher and asked for an officer to respond because Zimmerman perceived that Martine was acting suspicious. The police dispatcher informed Zimmerman that an officer was on the way and to wait for the officer.

During the recorded call Zimmerman made reference to people he felt had committed and gotten away with break-ins in his neighborhood. Later while talking about Martin, Zimmerman stated "these assholes, they always get away" and also said "these ****ing punks".

During this time, Martin was on the phone with a friend and described to her what was happening. The witness advised that Martin was scared because he was being followed through the complex by an unknown male and didn't know why. Martin attempted to run home but was followed by Zimmerman who didn't want the person he falsely assumed was going to commit a crime to get away before the police arrived. Zimmerman got out of his vehicle and followed Martin. When the police dispatcher realized Zimmerman's was pursuing Martin, he instructed Zimmerman not to do that and that the responding officer would meet him. Zimmerman disregarded the police dispatcher and continued to follow Martin who was trying to return to his home.

Zimmerman confronted Martin and a struggle ensued. Witnesses heard people arguing and what sounded like a struggle. During this time period witnesses heard numerous called for help and some of these were recorded in 911 calls to police. Trayvon Martin's mother has reviewed the 911 calls and identified the voice crying for help as Trayvon martin's voice.

Zimmerman shot Martin in the chest. When police arrived Zimmerman admitted shooting Martin. Officers recovered a gun from a holster inside Zimmerman's waistband. A fired casing that was recovered at the scene was determined to have been fired from the firearm.

Assistant Medical Examiner Dr. Bao Performed an autopsy and determined that Martin died from the gunshot wound.

The facts mentioned in this affidavit are not a complete recitation of all the pertinent facts and evidence in the case but only are presented for a determination of Probable Cause for Second Degree Murder.

By: Investigator T.C. O'Steen, Affiant
By: Investigator Dale Gilbreath, Affiant

Sworn to and subscribed before me
This 11th day of April, 2012
Jennifer Weigel
Notary Public, State of Florida at Large



//

I have read it in its entirety.

I am also a police officer and have written many of these myself.

I find it very difficult to believe that THIS lays any sort of probable cause whatsoever.

It proves little to nothing. It has always been my practice that you put your BEST EVIDENCE to support your case in your affidavit. You can leave out the smaller details that you will cover in trial, as long as it isn't KEY EVIDENCE.

It appears here that they are depending heavily on the Girlfriend's account of the story, while ignoring most ALL of the evidence that shows Zimmerman had defended himself. They didn't even mention the fact that Zimmerman claimed self defense in the affidavit, which is wrong in the first place.
 
You can read up on the definition of vehicular manslaughter in FL as well.

I don't need to take legal advice from you. Who still thinks that what Zimmerman did met the definition of stalking, and have been proven wrong time and time again.

Go away from this debate, you are making Martin supporters look bad.
 
Well... it was taking him almost an hour to walk .6 miles from the store back to the house...............

That tends to happen when you are Robotrippin' (High off Robotussin)

Wrong again..

Its a 16 minute walk each way from where Trayvon was living to the 7-11.

He left the house about 6:40 PM and was shot by Zimmerman at 7:17 PM
 
I have read it in its entirety.

I am also a police officer and have written many of these myself.

I find it very difficult to believe that THIS lays any sort of probable cause whatsoever.

It proves little to nothing. It has always been my practice that you put your BEST EVIDENCE to support your case in your affidavit. You can leave out the smaller details that you will cover in trial, as long as it isn't KEY EVIDENCE.

It appears here that they are depending heavily on the Girlfriend's account of the story, while ignoring most ALL of the evidence that shows Zimmerman had defended himself. They didn't even mention the fact that Zimmerman claimed self defense in the affidavit, which is wrong in the first place.

and that evidence and all other facts unknown will come out in court....period
 
I don't need to take legal advice from you. Who still thinks that what Zimmerman did met the definition of stalking, and have been proven wrong time and time again.

Go away from this debate, you are making Martin supporters look bad.

Then don't.. Read the statutes for yourself.

What Zim did meets the legal definition of stalking.. as multiple events no matter over how brief a time.

Muggers, purse snatchers and rapists ALL stalk their victims.
 
Wrong again..

Its a 16 minute walk each way from where Trayvon was living to the 7-11.

He left the house about 6:40 PM and was shot by Zimmerman at 7:17 PM

It could be a two minute walk sharon and still take him an hour...
 
It could be a two minute walk sharon and still take him an hour...

Yet he left the house at 6:40 according to Dee and the 14 year old boy Chad.

Trayvon wasn't loitering.. He was right on time.

You do realize that once Trayvon left the clubhouse port cochier GZ was observing him in his rear view mirror, in the rain and it was dark.
 
Wrong again..

Its a 16 minute walk each way from where Trayvon was living to the 7-11.

He left the house about 6:40 PM and was shot by Zimmerman at 7:17 PM

Where did you get the 6:40 time?

Why does the timestamp on the 7-11 video disagree with you?
 
Then don't.. Read the statutes for yourself.

What Zim did meets the legal definition of stalking.. as multiple events no matter over how brief a time.

Muggers, purse snatchers and rapists ALL stalk their victims.

No, it really doesn't meet the legal definition of stalking. Only in your head.
 
A. Im not a ****ing republican.

B. Im ASSUMING Trayvon attacked because Zimmerman Said so... and nobody has been able to PROVE otherwise (thats how this **** works).

C. You mention finding out the facts. Yet you are unable to tell me who started the fight.

D. The poster that I was responding to.... WHO WAS NOT YOU.... was running with the ASSUMPTION that Trayvon attacked first. My response was to THEM not to YOU who refuses to believe anything unless it is negative about Zimmerman.

E. It isn't Zimmerman's duty to prove anything. He gave his statement, it is the prosecution's job to prove him wrong. Thats how the criminal justice system works bub.

A) Agree to disagree.

B) Assuming the defendant is correct because the defendant says so is ****ing stupid.

C) Yeah, because I wasn't there and no one saw it. What am I, ****ing psychic? I'm being honest. You should try it.

D) This is a Debate Forum. I can respond to who I want, especially if someone says something that isn't true - such as you.

E) Self-defense cases are funny like that. They put much of the burden of proof on the defense. Read up, Johnny. Why? So some asshole can't run around a neighborhood picking fights, and then when he loses, shoot an underage, unarmed kid. That's ****ing why. When you chase people, then get your ass kicked, and then shoot someone, you better expect some punishment to head your way.
 
Last edited:
Where did you get the 6:40 time?

Why does the timestamp on the 7-11 video disagree with you?

That is the approximate time that Chad and Dee remembered.

The time stamp indicates is was more like 6: 24 PM.
 
Because she is lying?


How well she lies, and how well she is prepared, may have a big impact, if there are hearings or trials with her testimony.

I don't think Tayvon's girlfriend is lying abut Trayvon being upset that Zimmerman was following him. Trayvon's girlfriend may not be telling all she knows about why Trayvon was upset that Zimmerman was following him, or all the reasons that Trayvon might have had to fear Zimmerman, or who Zimmerman might have been. Did Trayvon think that Zimmerman was trying to rob him? Shake him down? Why did Trayvon have $40.00 in his pocket? Did Trayvon have $50 in his pocket when he left for the 7-11? Did Trayvon meet someone at the 7-11? Was Trayvon in posession of Marijuana when Zimmerman first started following him?




//
 
Last edited:
lets end this thread...zimmerman is guilty and hes getting the death penalty...:) now all we have to do is wait until the jury tells the judge and he announces it...done deal
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom