Thread: Prosecutors content George Zimmerman provoked confrontation w/Trayvon Martin[W;164]

Originally Posted by muciti

It was his fathers girlfiends house.



We do not know that. Not at all.



This is also not true. Zimmerman was already out of his vehicle and following Martin when that part of the conversation took place. He did not leave his vehicle and follow after that. He actually lost Martin and was returning to his vehicle at the end of the call.


Zimmerman does not have to prove self defense. He only has to provide some evidence to support his claim. Which his injuries, and witness statement provide evidence. It is the prosecutions responsibility to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he did not act in self defense. I think that unless the prosecution can prove that Zimmerman started the fight, or that martin was retreating when the shots were fired that it will be hard for them to disprove his claim of self defense. Which is what is legally required.

That's not what the affidavit filed by the prosecutor says.

Originally Posted by Objective Voice

I've made it a point to keep a low profile concerning this Zimmerman/Martin case until more evidence came forward. According to MSN.com, an affidavidt was filed by the procecuting attorneys indicating that Zimmerman pursued Martin and confronted him, thus provoking the attack which led to Martin's death. If the allegations are true, I don't see Zimmerman being found not guilty for taking this young man's life.

You can read the affidavit here.

One thing the affidavit does make clear: Trayvon Martin was living (or more accurately visiting one of his parents; the affidavit doesn't make clear whether it was his mother or father) in the gated community Zimmerman believed him to be "casing" for a potential home invasion. The irony here is according to the affidavit, Zimmerman lived there, too.

Trayvon's father has joint custody .. and the father's girlfriend lives at the Retreat.. Trayvon was a frequent visitor.. and was staying there for two week because of his school suspension.

That's why Trayvon had a gate code or card to get into the gated community.

Now ask yourself if Zimmerman knew every resident and their guests????

Originally Posted by MaggieD

Interesting....Zimmerman "profiled" Martin. That's perjorative, and I think they're going to have a hard time proving that. "He assumed Martin was a criminal." I wonder who's assuming with that statement. Reporting a suspicious person does not mean he automatically assumed he was a criminal. He assumed he was a suspicious person. There's a difference. "Zimmerman confronted Martin." Good luck proving that with the evidence we know about. While it says that Trayvon's mother identified the cries for help as coming from her son, we know of another witness who said it was Zimmerman yelling. Hmmmm.

Very interesting. Sounds like a spin.

Well, that is the prosecution's job at this point: to characterize information in terms as favorable to their case as possible.

Originally Posted by sharon

Trayvon's father has joint custody .. and the father's girlfriend lives at the Retreat.. Trayvon was a frequent visitor.. and was staying there for two week because of his school suspension.

That's why Trayvon had a gate code or card to get into the gated community.

Now ask yourself if Zimmerman knew every resident and their guests????

Whether or not Zimmerman knew each resident in the gated community where the shooting took place is irrelevent. It's a false argument.

Zimmerman did not need to know one single person who entered the housing development. He could have unknowingly confronted one of the residents and been well within his bounds as a neighborhood watchmen to survey or question anyone he believed to be suspicious. After all, that was his job. So, the question here isn't whether or not he knew Trayvon Martin personally or indirectly.

IMO, Zimmerman failed in his duties because he did not do one cruicial thing which was part of his duties as a community watchan: He failed to respond in the affirmative to Trayvon Martin who he was and his purpose for keeping him under survelliance. Had he answered Trayvon appropriately when he was asked directly by him why Zimmerman was following him, the entire ordeal could have been avoided. Still, the fact that Trayvon alledgedly knew the access code to the premises says alot in his favor, not Zimmerman's.

So because Zimmerman " failed to respond in the affirmative to Trayvon Martin" He deserved to get punched in the face and have the back of his head smashed into the ground?

I still feel like people are gladly convicting Zimmerman in the court of public opinion without having all the facts.

Originally Posted by Objective Voice

Whether or not Zimmerman knew each resident in the gated community where the shooting took place is irrelevent. It's a false argument.

Zimmerman did not need to know one single person who entered the housing development. He could have unknowingly confronted one of the residents and been well within his bounds as a neighborhood watchmen to survey or question anyone he believed to be suspicious. After all, that was his job. So, the question here isn't whether or not he knew Trayvon Martin personally or indirectly.

IMO, Zimmerman failed in his duties because he did not do one cruicial thing which was part of his duties as a community watchan: He failed to respond in the affirmative to Trayvon Martin who he was and his purpose for keeping him under survelliance. Had he answered Trayvon appropriately when he was asked directly by him why Zimmerman was following him, the entire ordeal could have been avoided. Still, the fact that Trayvon alledgedly knew the access code to the premises says alot in his favor, not Zimmerman's.

You have no clue of how the conversation between them transpired. To pretend so is folly. Silly.

Originally Posted by Objective Voice

Whether or not Zimmerman knew each resident in the gated community where the shooting took place is irrelevent. It's a false argument.

I don't agree.. because it goes to suspicion... What exactly was Trayvon doing that was suspicious? Its an 8-9 minute walk from the gate to his father's place.. GZ didn't report that he was peeking in windows, or jiggling door knobs.. He reported that TM was WALKING. Did he also report all residents and their guests for walking?

Zimmerman did not need to know one single person who entered the housing development. He could have unknowingly confronted one of the residents and been well within his bounds as a neighborhood watchmen to survey or question anyone he believed to be suspicious. After all, that was his job. So, the question here isn't whether or not he knew Trayvon Martin personally or indirectly.

When he confronted other residents, did he identify himself as NW and speak to them or did he routinely follow them to their homes?

IMO, Zimmerman failed in his duties because he did not do one cruicial thing which was part of his duties as a community watchan: He failed to respond in the affirmative to Trayvon Martin who he was and his purpose for keeping him under survelliance. Had he answered Trayvon appropriately when he was asked directly by him why Zimmerman was following him, the entire ordeal could have been avoided. Still, the fact that Trayvon alledgedly knew the access code to the premises says alot in his favor, not Zimmerman's.

Of course TM had an access code or card to get in and out.. It a gated community with no gate man or security.

I can tell you that if some creepy NW watch guy followed me to my house without speaking.. I would call the cops and the HOA and raise holy h*ll.

I have sympathy for George Zimmerman. I don't think he was a Rambo. I don't think he was a tough guy. I don't think he meant for this to happen. At all. I think he was a well-intentioned volunteer. Three of his neighbors described him as a cross between Barney Fife and Andy Griffith. I'll judge his actions by that. No one has come forward to say he's some kind of para-military type. I think he's being judged way too harshly.

Does he deserve to be convicted? I don't know. We don't know what evidence the DA has against him. Speculation as to his innocence or guilt is just that: speculation. Read WAG here.

The fact that witnesses say that, after he shot Martin, he was walking around with his head in his hands tells me what was going through his mind: "What the **** did I do??? Oh, ****!!! OMG!!!" This is not an evil man.

Originally Posted by MaggieD

I have sympathy for George Zimmerman. I don't think he was a Rambo. I don't think he was a tough guy. I don't think he meant for this to happen. At all. I think he was a well-intentioned volunteer. Three of his neighbors described him as a cross between Barney Fife and Andy Griffith. I'll judge his actions by that. No one has come forward to say he's some kind of para-military type. I think he's being judged way too harshly.

Does he deserve to be convicted? I don't know. We don't know what evidence the DA has against him. Speculation as to his innocence or guilt is just that: speculation. Read WAG here.

The fact that witnesses say that, after he shot Martin, he was walking around with his head in his hands tells me what was going through his mind: "What the **** did I do??? Oh, ****!!! OMG!!!" This is not an evil man.

He was an incompetent boob, Maggie. NW guys don't follow you to your home.

They report suspicious behavior to the police and stand down.. or they speak .. They identify themselves and say, Hi, I'm George, do you live here?

If some creepy NW follows me home when I am out walking at night and doesn't speak to me, I will raise so much h*ll with the HOA and the cops, it will peel the paint on the walls.

Originally Posted by sharon

He was an incompetent boob, Maggie. NW guys don't follow you to your home.

They report suspicious behavior to the police and stand down.. or they speak .. They identify themselves and say, Hi, I'm George, do you live here?

If some creepy NW follows me home when I am out walking at night and doesn't speak to me, I will raise so much h*ll with the HOA and the cops, it will peel the paint on the walls.

I don't disagree with one thing you've said. But I still have compassion for the guy.