Thread: Prosecutors content George Zimmerman provoked confrontation w/Trayvon Martin[W;164]

Originally Posted by Mason66

I don't need to prove anything, that will come out in the court of law.

Do you think they call it a gated community for the hell of it? A gate implies a gaurd of some kind authorizing entry.

Your rebuttal sucks like a bucket of ticks, doesn't it?

Originally Posted by MMC

Try looking up the The Condo Association and what they had to say. Moreover they have proof that he had already as a neighborhood watch had caught one thief before.

Show me where it gives the watch captain the authority to grant entry. Did the community issue ID cards and guest cards to be carried on their person? Who had legal authority to demand such identification if it existed?

"Already caught one thief before"? Martin wasn't a theif! He was legally in the community as a house guest. Sounds to me as if you too are justifying Zimmerman's actions because Martin was black. Shame on you.

Thats not necessarily true we have gated communites for Condos that even have a Shack for some sort of a community secuirty guard. Yet most of them don't have anyone working in the shack. Some they just leave the light on in the shack. They even have these communities around Golf Courses. Only cops around to patrol out in those areas are County Sherriffs and State Police. So it's not like they would be able to show up lickety split if anything is happening.

Moreover people in a community are apt to notice someone who is not from their community if it is a small community. Still what profiling is there other than Zimmerman saying something about punks that had been in the neighborhood?

Originally Posted by MMC

The racial crap with this case needs to stop and the Democrats need to back down from trying to tie it in with Florida's Gun laws.

Why are you telling us?

Originally Posted by Risky Thicket

Show me where it gives the watch captain the authority to grant entry. Did the community issue ID cards and guest cards to be carried on their person? Who had legal authority to demand such identification if it existed?

"Already caught one thief before"? Martin wasn't a theif! He was legally in the community as a house guest. Sounds to me as if you too are justifying Zimmerman's actions because Martin was black. Shame on you.

No see thats where you are confused. I am not applying any race. If you read the report none of the other Association members wanted to do it, go out and patrol. According to the Woman in the Association they went over the guidlines. Especially about acting like a vigilante. To call the police and another member. Yet they knew for months Zimmermann had been patrolling and had caught a thief before. Plus had made like 42 calls to the cops over incidents in the community. So again he said punks not applying it to any race.

Originally Posted by MMC

Thats not necessarily true we have gated communites for Condos that even have a Shack for some sort of a community secuirty guard. Yet most of them don't have anyone working in the shack. Some they just leave the light on in the shack. They even have these communities around Golf Courses. Only cops around to patrol out in those areas are County Sherriffs and State Police. So it's not like they would be able to show up lickety split if anything is happening.

Moreover people in a community are apt to notice someone who is not from their community if it is a small community. Still what profiling is there other than Zimmerman saying something about punks that had been in the neighborhood?

I was unaware that Zimmerman's community had a manned gate. So the person at the gate granted Martin entry. And then Zimmerman shot Martin because he thought he was a theif. What the hell was Zimmerman doing challenging Martin if the gate guard had already cleared Martin's entry?

Originally Posted by Risky Thicket

I was unaware that Zimmerman's community had a manned gate. So the person at the gate granted Martin entry. And then Zimmerman shot Martin because he thought he was a theif. What the hell was Zimmerman doing challenging Martin if the gate guard had already cleared Martin's entry?

There is a timelog they have. So they know Zimmermann called the cops first. the dispatcher told him not to follow. So we know he was awaiting for the cops to get there and then followed the Martin Kid.

As ABC TV asked what evidence is there that has changed from 3 weeks ago, that would warrant a second degree murder charge? Even tho this Special Prosecutor is saying profiling.

Originally Posted by muciti

We do not know that. Not at all.

No, we do. Z said he was on his way to Target, [well Z's dad said he said], not doing a neighborhood patrol though. So the NWH gun thing isn't relevant at all afaict.

Originally Posted by muciti

This is also not true. Zimmerman was already out of his vehicle and following Martin when that part of the conversation took place. He did not leave his vehicle and follow after that. He actually lost Martin and was returning to his vehicle at the end of the call.

He covered the distance that he covered in something like 15 seconds. He then has 1:35, iirc, while on the phone to make it back to his truck covering the same distance he just covered in 15 seconds. Then after that, there is another 2 -4 minutes, (i forget) before he runs into Martin.
So, it doesn't seem that he returned straight away after being advised his actions were redundant, nor that he returned to his truck as the call ended.
That's probably ten to twelve times the amount of time it took him to cover the distance that he went from his vehicle to get back to his vehicle.
Idk what he did, or why, but it doesn't seem that he went directly back to his vehicle "at the end of the call."

Originally Posted by Mason66

How would profiling come in to it with the words asshole and punk? What was he profiling the other guy to be?

a criminal up to no good in Z's neighborhood?

Originally Posted by Mustachio

Wow, you just don't care about the facts at all, do you? Remember the audio experts concluding with near 100% accuracy that the screams heard on the 911 call were not George Zimmerman? It doesn't seem a bit absurd to you at this point that your sticking to the "Zimmerman was screaming" approach?

Apparently it is you who doesn't care about the actual evidence and would unwisely prefer to rely on irrelevant info like this supposed analysis, to support your position.
Analysis' that doesn't even hold to the standards that the examiner himself says they need to.
Analysis' that have already been discredited because they don't. lol

An analysis contracted by and for the media, with 2nd or 3rd generation copies of the 911 audio.

It wasn't an official analysis, contacted by the prosecution or the defense.

It is third party generated and therefore meaningless.

But we do have two eye-witness, who you want to ignore in favor of a meaningless analysis.


But since you would rather engage in speculation, and use meaningless analysis, lets engage in some logical speculation.

The mother say's it was Trayvon.
To counter, the defense will then contract an analysis of their own.
Do you want to place a bet that they will provide actual copies of Zimmerman screaming for a more accurate analysis?

If the evidence that we know of is accurate, then of course the defense is going to contract such an analysis.


But, until an actual official analysis is done, any discussion about who is screaming goes to the eye-witnesses.
Not distressed parents.

Originally Posted by Mustachio

Also, the way you have portrayed the events, Zimmerman lost Martin and then Martin came up and ambushed Zimmerman.

Really?

The way I portrayed?
Which way was that?

Check yourself bro.
Then check out the information below that has been reported as being released by the police.
If you don't like the way it is portrayed, then talk to the police.
Maybe they will spin it the way you want them to.

Code:

Police: Zimmerman says Trayvon decked him with one blow
then began hammering his head


With a single punch, Trayvon Martin decked the Neighborhood Watch volunteer who eventually
shot and killed the unarmed 17-year-old, then Trayvon climbed on top of George Zimmerman
and slammed his head into the sidewalk, leaving him bloody and battered, law-enforcement
authorities told the Orlando Sentinel.

That is the account Zimmerman gave police, and much of it has been corroborated by witnesses,
authorities say. There have been no reports that a witness saw the initial punch Zimmerman
told police about.

In his version of events, Zimmerman had turned around and was walking back to his SUV when
Trayvon approached him from behind, the two exchanged words and then Trayvon punched him
in the nose, sending him to the ground, and began beating him.
...
He said he was on his way to the grocery store when he spotted Trayvon walking through his
gated community.
...
Zimmerman told them he lost sight of Trayvon and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon
approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words.

Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone,
he told police. Trayvon then said, "Well, you do now" or something similar and punched Zimmerman
in the nose, according to the account he gave police.

Zimmerman fell to the ground and Trayvon got on top of him and began
slamming his head into the sidewalk, he told police.

Zimmerman began yelling for help.

Several witnesses heard those cries, and there has been a dispute about whether they came from
Zimmerman or Trayvon.

Lawyers for Trayvon's family say it was Trayvon, but police say their evidence indicates
it was Zimmerman.

One witness, who has since talked to local television news reporters, told police he saw
Zimmerman on the ground with Trayvon on top, pounding him —
and was unequivocal that it was Zimmerman who was crying for help.

Zimmerman then shot Trayvon once in the chest at very close range, according to authorities.

Trayvon Martin: George Zimmerman's account to police of the Trayvon Martin shooting. - Orlando Sentinel

Originally Posted by Mustachio

How do you account for Martin's girlfriend saying that she was on the phone with Trayvon and they were speaking as he was being followed, and she heard the beginning of their confrontation before the phone cut out? How exactly would George Zimmerman "lose" a person who is continuously talking to his girlfriend on the phone? Are you asserting that Zimmerman is deaf?

Talk about doing more supposin'!
Speaking? lol There is raised tensions here, and you have them speaking, instead of engaged in a confrontational exchange of words.
How convenient.
Considering your rant further down the page, are you asserting that the girlfriend lied when she said Trayvon relayed to her that he had lost him?

Originally Posted by Mustachio

I'm really glad you're here on the forum, since you obviously know something that the police and special investigators do not. It's fantastic to have somebody here who can definitively tell us things that are not proven or known. And furthermore, it's wonderful that you are able to tell anybody who doesn't agree with you that their opinion is of no relevance. It really improves the conversation because all we need to do is listen to you and ignore everything else. And it's great that you are able to tell us that martin's girlfriend's word is irrelevant, one witness account is irrelevant, the other witness account is 100% accurate, and police reports are inherently flawless, while the word of the special prosecutor is entirely based on pressure from the media. It's amazing because you're the only person in the world who knows all of this, and we're lucky enough to have you available on our forum almost all day. You're psychic, right? Sorry, don't mean to out you, but hey, obviously there's no other way you could know all of this stuff.

Really? You are going to cry or complain because I provide evidence.
And you are going to cry or complain because it exposes the false information.
Really?








Not.

Let me address what you so condescendingly froth.

Originally Posted by Mustachio

I'm really glad you're here on the forum, since you obviously know something that the police and special investigators do not.

Hyperbolic fantasy. Especially since it is the information I provide, as reported in the media.

Originally Posted by Mustachio

It's fantastic to have somebody here who can definitively tell us things that are not proven or known.

Most people would be happy to receive valid information.
The only reason I can figure you are upset, would be because the information provided doesn't agree with a preconceived biased opinion that you hold.

Originally Posted by Mustachio

it's wonderful that you are able to tell anybody who doesn't agree with you that their opinion is of no relevance.

lol
It isn't a matter of "agreement", but is a matter of relevance, or accuracy of the information.
Sorry you don't like that.

Originally Posted by Mustachio

it's great that you are able to tell us that martin's girlfriend's word is irrelevant,

I never said it was irrelevant. Two things I have said about her statement, are the following.
One. It is consistent with Zimmerman's account.
Two. I think her account is suspect because of her non-cooperation with authorities.
What is your problem with this?

Originally Posted by Mustachio

one witness account is irrelevant, the other witness account is 100% accurate,

Are you speaking about the eye-witness vs. ear-witness? I hope not, because if you are - OMG!
That should be an easy one for anyone to understand, for anyone except grieving family, and those with a preconceived biased opinion.
Which category are you in?

Originally Posted by Mustachio

and police reports are inherently flawless,

I never said that.
I said it is evidence.

Originally Posted by Mustachio

while the word of the special prosecutor is entirely based on pressure from the media.

Again, something I never said.
I am starting to think you have me confused with someone else.

Originally Posted by Mustachio

It's amazing because you're the only person in the world who knows all of this, and we're lucky enough to have you available on our forum almost all day. You're psychic, right? Sorry, don't mean to out you, but hey, obviously there's no other way you could know all of this stuff.

Afik, this is sad hyperbolic crying. Please stop, you are embarrassing yourself.