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Seattle Becomes First U.S. City to Let Uber Drivers Unionize

TheDemSocialist

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Seattle on Monday became the first city in the nation to allow drivers of ride-hailing companies such as Uber and Lyft to unionize over pay and working conditions.
Supporters erupted into cheers after the City Council voted 8-0 in favor of the legislation, which is seen as a test case for the changing 21st century workforce. The companies strongly oppose it, and several council members acknowledged there would be legal challenges ahead but said it was worth doing.

The measure requires companies that hire or contract with drivers of taxis, for-hire transportation companies and app-based ride-hailing services to bargain with their drivers, if a majority shows they want to be represented. Drivers would be represented by nonprofit organizations certified by the city.

Many drivers in Seattle are immigrants who depend on full-time work, but some make less than minimum wage and lack basic worker rights, such as sick leave and protection from retaliation, he said.
[FONT=ProximaNovaRegular, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]The National Labor Relations Act does not extend collective bargaining rights to independent contractors.
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[FONT=ProximaNovaRegular, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Read more @: [/FONT]Seattle Becomes First U.S. City to Let Uber Drivers Unionize

[FONT=ProximaNovaRegular, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]So Uber drivers in Seattle can now vote on if they would like to be represented by a union in bargaining [/FONT]:applaud[FONT=ProximaNovaRegular, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]. This is pretty big news because Uber drivers are considered independent contractors and are not covered under the NLRA. This vote in Seattle can possibly pave the way to union organizing. However, this bill may be headed straight to court. [/FONT]
 
[/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=ProximaNovaRegular, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Read more @: [/FONT]Seattle Becomes First U.S. City to Let Uber Drivers Unionize

[FONT=ProximaNovaRegular, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]So Uber drivers in Seattle can now vote on if they would like to be represented by a union in bargaining [/FONT]:applaud[FONT=ProximaNovaRegular, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]. This is pretty big news because Uber drivers are considered independent contractors and are not covered under the NLRA. This vote in Seattle can possibly pave the way to union organizing. However, this bill may be headed straight to court. [/FONT]

Good! Hopefully, by the time this reaches SCOTUS, Hillary will have been elected and had an opportunity to choose a better (more liberal) judge to replace either Thomas or Scalia...because it's about doggone time that we had some pushback against the conservative war on unions that has torn away at our middle class since the 1970's.
 
Excellent move to combat the sharing economy. I hope they get what they deserve.
 
Good! Hopefully, by the time this reaches SCOTUS, Hillary will have been elected and had an opportunity to choose a better (more liberal) judge to replace either Thomas or Scalia...because it's about doggone time that we had some pushback against the conservative war on unions that has torn away at our middle class since the 1970's.

why 'either'
hopefully, 'both'
 
Not sure I support this. I'm a big fan of where the 'sharing economy' was going and this is going to scupper that. I think part of what makes uber special is that the drivers are not employees of uber, they just use uber in order to provide their own service.

Can see this being a big stumbling block for sharing companies going forward, and I honestly think such companies (uber, airbnb) represent a paradigm shift in how we conduct business.
 
Not sure I support this. I'm a big fan of where the 'sharing economy' was going and this is going to scupper that. I think part of what makes uber special is that the drivers are not employees of uber, they just use uber in order to provide their own service.

Can see this being a big stumbling block for sharing companies going forward, and I honestly think such companies (uber, airbnb) represent a paradigm shift in how we conduct business.

I'm an old guy with no interest in these services, but you're absolutely right.
 
[/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=ProximaNovaRegular, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Read more @: [/FONT]Seattle Becomes First U.S. City to Let Uber Drivers Unionize

[FONT=ProximaNovaRegular, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]So Uber drivers in Seattle can now vote on if they would like to be represented by a union in bargaining [/FONT]:applaud[FONT=ProximaNovaRegular, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]. This is pretty big news because Uber drivers are considered independent contractors and are not covered under the NLRA. This vote in Seattle can possibly pave the way to union organizing. However, this bill may be headed straight to court. [/FONT]

Isn't Uber just an app service and they don't actually have any employee's that drive people around? It's essentially people that already own a cab business signing up to them in order to get more customers.
 
Isn't Uber just an app service and they don't actually have any employee's that drive people around? It's essentially people that already own a cab business signing up to them in order to get more customers.

I would think that drivers would be subcontractors, not employees.
 
[/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=ProximaNovaRegular, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Read more @: [/FONT]Seattle Becomes First U.S. City to Let Uber Drivers Unionize

[FONT=ProximaNovaRegular, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]So Uber drivers in Seattle can now vote on if they would like to be represented by a union in bargaining [/FONT]:applaud[FONT=ProximaNovaRegular, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]. This is pretty big news because Uber drivers are considered independent contractors and are not covered under the NLRA. This vote in Seattle can possibly pave the way to union organizing. However, this bill may be headed straight to court. [/FONT]

which is going to be struck down in court for running afoul of federal labor laws.
 
Good! Hopefully, by the time this reaches SCOTUS, Hillary will have been elected and had an opportunity to choose a better (more liberal) judge to replace either Thomas or Scalia...because it's about doggone time that we had some pushback against the conservative war on unions that has torn away at our middle class since the 1970's.

how is a blatant illegal law passed by a city a war on unions?
these guys are not employee's they are independent contractors.

they can't unionize anyway.
 
I don't support this. Sharing economy is about overriding the old model, including unions. Collectivizing uber will render it not much different than any other company. With organizations comes bureaucracy and fees, and with fees means consumers pay more. It also creates unnecessary barriers to entry.

This is obviously a political move to render the service less effective. If drivers become centralized then the grassroots element is destroyed.
 
Exactly. So...how the hell can they unionize? They're a separate business.

Based upon history and common sense, they can't.

ETA - From the article,

The measure requires companies that hire or contract with drivers of taxis, for-hire transportation companies and app-based ride-hailing services to bargain with their drivers, if a majority shows they want to be represented. Drivers would be represented by nonprofit organizations certified by the city.

Makes no sense to me.
 
This is so outlandishly stupid.
Especially as they provide their own working conditions.

Working conditions does not simply just mean your car. It can also mean hours, benefits, treatment, breaks, how business is conducted, etc.
 
Working conditions does not simply just mean your car. It can also mean hours, benefits, treatment, breaks, how business is conducted, etc.
No, benefits are benefits not working conditions.
Treatment? D'oh! iLOL Just stop.

Hours, breaks? iLOL Ha, ha, ha! They make there own.
Just stop.
 
No, benefits are benefits not working conditions.
Im really not going to get into a semantics argument with you

"Working conditions are at the core of paid work and employment relationships. Generally speaking, working conditions cover a broad range of topics and issues, from working time (hours of work, rest periods, and work schedules) to remuneration, as well as the physical conditions and mental demands that exist in the workplace." Working conditions

Treatment? D'oh! iLOL Just stop.
Yes treatment.
" but some make less than minimum wage and lack basic worker rights, such as sick leave and protection from retaliation"
"drivers don't have a say in rate changes, can be deactivated at will and don't have access to worker protections such as sick leave and minimum wage laws"
 
Working conditions does not simply just mean your car. It can also mean hours, benefits, treatment, breaks, how business is conducted, etc.

Facts that provide evidence of the degree of control and independence fall into three categories:

Behavioral: Does the company control or have the right to control what the worker does and how the worker does his or her job?

Financial: Are the business aspects of the worker’s job controlled by the payer? (these include things like how worker is paid, whether expenses are reimbursed, who provides tools/supplies, etc.)

Type of Relationship: Are there written contracts or employee type benefits (i.e. pension plan, insurance, vacation pay, etc.)? Will the relationship continue and is the work performed a key aspect of the business?

Businesses must weigh all these factors when determining whether a worker is an employee or independent contractor. Some factors may indicate that the worker is an employee, while other factors indicate that the worker is an independent contractor. There is no “magic” or set number of factors that “makes” the worker an employee or an independent contractor, and no one factor stands alone in making this determination. Also, factors which are relevant in one situation may not be relevant in another.
The keys are to look at the entire relationship, consider the degree or extent of the right to direct and control, and finally, to document each of the factors used in coming up with the determination.
Form SS-8
If, after reviewing the three categories of evidence, it is still unclear whether a worker is an employee or an independent contractor, Form SS-8, Determination of Worker Status for Purposes of Federal Employment Taxes and Income Tax Withholding (PDF) can be filed with the IRS. The form may be filed by either the business or the worker. The IRS will review the facts and circumstances and officially determine the worker’s status.
Be aware that it can take at least six months to get a determination, but a business that continually hires the same types of workers to perform particular services may want to consider filing the Form SS-8 (PDF).

https://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Smal...ependent-Contractor-Self-Employed-or-Employee

unless they are changing the law, which i dont see happening, these are sub contractors, not employees

and therefore, have NO right to unionization
 
Im really not going to get into a semantics argument with you
And again, benefits is not a working condition.


Yes treatment.
iLOL
Like I said. Just stop.

This crap isn't going to go anywhere.
It is a shame that there are folks who actually agree and support such idiotic ideas.

If anything, the drivers should be considered as the employer of the service
 
And again, benefits is not a working condition.
Ok.

iLOL
Like I said. Just stop.

This crap isn't going to go anywhere.
It is a shame that there are folks who actually agree and support such idiotic ideas.

If anything, the drivers should be considered as the employer of the service
Why did you fail to acknowledge the quotes?
 
unionizing independent contractors is dumb... really dumb.... they'll have zero leverage to negotiate anything.

Uber can simply say " we won't be using you anymore" for any reason, at any time.. even over unionizing.
...and there is nothing a union can do about it.
 
No, benefits are benefits not working conditions.
Treatment? D'oh! iLOL Just stop.

Hours, breaks? iLOL Ha, ha, ha! They make there own.
Just stop.

hours, benefits, breaks, ... those are all in the hands of the independent contractor....none of those items are up for negotiation with the company.
 
Facts that provide evidence of the degree of control and independence fall into three categories:

Behavioral: Does the company control or have the right to control what the worker does and how the worker does his or her job?

Financial: Are the business aspects of the worker’s job controlled by the payer? (these include things like how worker is paid, whether expenses are reimbursed, who provides tools/supplies, etc.)

Type of Relationship: Are there written contracts or employee type benefits (i.e. pension plan, insurance, vacation pay, etc.)? Will the relationship continue and is the work performed a key aspect of the business?

Businesses must weigh all these factors when determining whether a worker is an employee or independent contractor. Some factors may indicate that the worker is an employee, while other factors indicate that the worker is an independent contractor. There is no “magic” or set number of factors that “makes” the worker an employee or an independent contractor, and no one factor stands alone in making this determination. Also, factors which are relevant in one situation may not be relevant in another.
The keys are to look at the entire relationship, consider the degree or extent of the right to direct and control, and finally, to document each of the factors used in coming up with the determination.
Form SS-8
If, after reviewing the three categories of evidence, it is still unclear whether a worker is an employee or an independent contractor, Form SS-8, Determination of Worker Status for Purposes of Federal Employment Taxes and Income Tax Withholding (PDF) can be filed with the IRS. The form may be filed by either the business or the worker. The IRS will review the facts and circumstances and officially determine the worker’s status.
Be aware that it can take at least six months to get a determination, but a business that continually hires the same types of workers to perform particular services may want to consider filing the Form SS-8 (PDF).

https://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Smal...ependent-Contractor-Self-Employed-or-Employee

unless they are changing the law, which i dont see happening, these are sub contractors, not employees

and therefore, have NO right to unionization

oh, I think they do have a right to unionize... but it's rather pointless to do so.... the only thing they will be doing is throwing money away on union representation that can offer no benefit.
 
oh, I think they do have a right to unionize... but it's rather pointless to do so.... the only thing they will be doing is throwing money away on union representation that can offer no benefit.

according to the law, they are NOT employees of UBER

that is based on actual IRS rulings

i dont think you can unionize if you arent an employee

maybe i am wrong there....but i dont think so
 
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