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Creating Terrorists, Why do we continue to do it?

Reverend_Hellh0und said:
You are purposefully being dishonest in your slander. Do you have any integrity?


Us servicemembers have died protecting civillians and avoiding civillian casualties just so those like you can call us terrorists. Shame on you.
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Soldiers do as they are ordered, just as my son did in the Air Force for 13 years. I blame those that put them in harms way to make the Middle East safe for big oil. Shame on those that support it!
 
Catawba said:
Soldiers do as they are ordered, just as my son did in the Air Force for 13 years. I blame those that put them in harms way to make the Middle East safe for big oil. Shame on those that support it!
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Iirc your son quit when the going got tough. :shrug:


I did my job as do all those who serve under thier own free will. If you are going to call us terrorists don't be such a coward about it and do it. Using the "they do as they are told by thier superiors" simply tells me you dont habe the balls to say what you already said without trying to cut and run when confronted with your asinine view with your lame ass copout.
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
So you condem all those who have ever served for the actions of one small group?
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please quote my post where i have condemned all those who have ever served in the military
Can you be any more pathetic?
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yes. if i were the one sitting behind your keyboard

it seems you do not want to acknowledge that America and Americans can commit wrongdoing and that those inappropriate actions then have consequences. one of the consequences can be - and has been - to foster a hatred sufficient to fuel men and women to engage in terrorist actions against American interests

as an example, the actions of calley did nothing to help us win the war for the hearts and minds of the vietnamese. notice how America's fortunes turned out in that war. why do you think it will now be any different in the middle east?
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
Iirc your son quit when the going got tough.

I did my job as do all those who serve under thier own free will. If you are going to call us terrorists don't be such a coward about it and do it. Using the "they do as they are told by thier superiors" simply tells me you dont habe the balls to say what you already said without trying to cut and run when confronted with your asinine view with your lame ass copout.
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He left after his tour was up. Not during. And after 13 years service to his country. He could no longer stomach what we were doing to innocent Iraqi civilians.

What sickens me is that some are willing to send kids to die so they can drive their hummer to the market!
 
Catawba said:
He left after his tour was up. Not during. And after 13 years service to his country. He could no longer stomach what we were doing to innocent Iraqi civilians.

What sickens me is that some are willing to send kids to die so they can drive their hummer to the market!
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maybe your son should have turned himself in for court-martial if he was doing bad things to Iraqi civilians :shrug:

because aside from a few bad apples, the US military are not targeting and terrorizing civilians
 
Catawba said:
He left after his tour was up. Not during. And after 13 years service to his country. He could no longer stomach what we were doing to innocent Iraqi civilians.
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sounds like an excuse for cowardice to me. We are glad he cut and ran especially if he was involved in war crimes. The service frowns on people like that. :shrug:


What sickens me is that some are willing to send kids to die so they can drive their hummer to the market!
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Hyperbolic much? Who drives hummers these days. :lol:
 
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justabubba said:
i am not acquainted with those statements where the radical islamists

would you please offer a reputable cite
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I have compiled for the last four years+ the Islamists in Their Own Words including numerous events where they have praised Hitler and vowed to finish off what he started. Unfortunately I naively believed that the forum where I did this would be around forever. That forum is now defunct and the only trace one can find is a scant few vague references on Google, but the archives have been removed.

However, here are few samples of radical Islamists praising Hitler and expressing their views of wanting to finish off what he could not. Not included are the innumerable articles and videos of Iranian president Ahmadinejad calling for Israel to be wiped off the map, as these are readily available and easily found.
 
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It should also be noted that Hitler's Mein Kampf has been translated and distributed in the Middle East under the title "My Jihad."
 
SgtRock said:
Catawaba, you still havn't answered the question I posed. Since you beleive that we are losing the war. What do you suggest we as a nation do at this point?
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Well, I posed a similar question and he did answer it. His answer was that we improve domestic National Security and attack foreign terrorists through intelligence and police actions. I've heard it before. (Bill Maher anyone?)
 
Tubub said:
Well, I posed a similar question and he did answer it. His answer was that we improve domestic National Security and attack foreign terrorists through intelligence and police actions. I've heard it before. (Bill Maher anyone?)
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And no doubt he was one the whiners screaming about a supposed loss of civil rights when Bush did improve national security.
 
DeeJayH said:
maybe your son should have turned himself in for court-martial if he was doing bad things to Iraqi civilians :shrug:

because aside from a few bad apples, the US military are not targeting and terrorizing civilians
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100,000 Iraqi civilians died due to our knowingly targeting electrical facilities required for clean drinking water and sewage treatment.

What is your suggested prison sentence for that?
 
Catawba said:
100,000 Iraqi civilians died due to our knowingly targeting electrical facilities required for clean drinking water and sewage treatment.

What is your suggested prison sentence for that?
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:yawn: what should one hit when attacking a country? Pastures and hillsides or infrastructure and military targets?

War is not pretty
War is not sanitary
War is not perfect

try checking into reality before disparaging our troops and your son's service mmmmkay thanks :2wave:
 
DeeJayH said:
:yawn: what should one hit when attacking a country? Pastures and hillsides or infrastructure and military targets?

War is not pretty
War is not sanitary
War is not perfect

try checking into reality before disparaging our troops and your son's service mmmmkay thanks :2wave:
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It was the good Reverend Hellhound that proposed court martial for war crimes by soldiers. The soldiers were only doing what they were ordered to do. The ones that issued the orders are the ones that should be put on trial.

As far as your war is not pretty tact, is that our war with Iraq was not carried out for National Security, since they represented no threat. A war for profit is as immoral as anything the terrorists have done.
 
Catawba said:
It was the good Reverend Hellhound that proposed court martial for war crimes by soldiers. The soldiers were only doing what they were ordered to do. The ones that issued the orders are the ones that should be put on trial.

As far as your war is not pretty tact, is that our war with Iraq was not carried out for National Security, since they represented no threat. A war for profit is as immoral as anything the terrorists have done.
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you must be so blissful, as Ignorance is bliss

I said your son should surrender for War Crimes

The leadership in no way ordered soldiers to commit war crimes
and soldiers are allowed to NOT FOLLOW illegal orders

therefor your entire 'feeble' argument is a massive FAIL

lastly, you can in NO WAY prove that this is a war for Profit only, instead of a war based on national security interests. and I hate to break this sad reality to you, but in War, to the victor go the spoils :doh

You can speculate and spew your Huffpo garbage all day long
but that does not make it fact

GySgt really needs to school your ass on the topic
 
Catawba said:
A war for profit is as immoral as anything the terrorists have done.
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Yup, that would be why we're getting all that free oil from Iraq, and why we're keeping control of the Iraqi oil fields after we pull out, and... Um, waitaminute, we aren't actually doing those things are we? :doh
 
Catawba said:
Soldiers do as they are ordered, just as my son did in the Air Force for 13 years.
. . .

The soldiers were only doing what they were ordered to do.
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You might want to do some historical research. That was found to be an insufficient defense about a half century ago in something called Nuremberg.:doh

So you are essentially saying your son is a war criminal. Must feel good.
 
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Catawba said:
A war for profit is as immoral as anything the terrorists have done.
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Since Islamic terrorism's objective is the rise of their religion as the most dominant political force in the world then what America has done is not as immoral. You can't judge an action without viewing the ends both forces are reaching for.

And America is motivated primarily by idealism, not profit. If you don't understand that then you can't understand that country.
 
justabubba said:
where is the web cite for your post?
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I could post websites all day but I cannot change your heart or your mind so I will post passages from the Quran so that you can read for yourself why Muslims hate Jews.

Qur'an 2:61
"Humiliation and wretchedness were stamped on the Jews and they were visited with Allah's wrath."


Qur'an 4:47
"O you People of the Book (Jews) to whom the Scripture has been given, believe in what We have revealed, confirming and verifying what was possessed by you, before We destroy your faces beyond all recognition, turning you on your backs, and curse you as We cursed the Sabbath-breakers, for the decision of Allah Must be executed."

Qur'an 4:160
"For the iniquity of the Jews We made unlawful for them certain (foods) in that they hindered many from Allah's Way, that they took usury, though they were forbidden, and that they devoured men's wealth on false pretenses, We have prepared for those among them who reject [Islamic] Faith a painful doom."


Qur'an 5:59
"Say: 'People of the Book! Do you disapprove of us for no other reason than that we believe in Allah, and the revelation that has come to us and that which came before?' Say: 'Shall I point out to you something much worse than this by the treatment it received from Allah? Those who incurred the curse of Allah and His wrath, those of whom He transformed into apes and swine."

Qur'an 2:64
"But you [Jews] went back on your word and were lost losers. So become apes, despised and hated. We made an example out of you."

Qur'an 33:26
"Allah made the Jews leave their homes by terrorizing them so that you killed some and made many captive. And He made you inherit their lands, their homes, and their wealth. He gave you a country you had not traversed before."

Qur'an 4:55
"Sufficient for the Jew is the Flaming Fire!"

Qur'an 5:42
"They are fond of listening to falsehood, of devouring anything forbidden; they are greedy for illicit gain!"

Qur'an 59:6
"What Allah gave as booty to His Messenger, He has taken away from the Jews. Allah gives His Messenger Lordship over whom He will. Whatever booty Allah has given to Muhammad and taken away from the Jewish people of the townships, belongs to Allah and to His Apostle."
 
here is what was asserted causing me to ask for a cite to document this was actually expressed by an islamic leader:
ScummyD said:
It's really quite amazing. The radical Islamists openly state that they wish to finish off what Hitler couldn't and they have to ask why that is a bad thing.
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and here is the weak crap you come back with. i can only assume you have no concern for the loss of credibility resulting from such nonsense:
SgtRock said:
I could post websites all day but I cannot change your heart or your mind so I will post passages from the Quran so that you can read for yourself why Muslims hate Jews.

Qur'an 2:61
"Humiliation and wretchedness were stamped on the Jews and they were visited with Allah's wrath."


Qur'an 4:47
"O you People of the Book (Jews) to whom the Scripture has been given, believe in what We have revealed, confirming and verifying what was possessed by you, before We destroy your faces beyond all recognition, turning you on your backs, and curse you as We cursed the Sabbath-breakers, for the decision of Allah Must be executed."

Qur'an 4:160
"For the iniquity of the Jews We made unlawful for them certain (foods) in that they hindered many from Allah's Way, that they took usury, though they were forbidden, and that they devoured men's wealth on false pretenses, We have prepared for those among them who reject [Islamic] Faith a painful doom."


Qur'an 5:59
"Say: 'People of the Book! Do you disapprove of us for no other reason than that we believe in Allah, and the revelation that has come to us and that which came before?' Say: 'Shall I point out to you something much worse than this by the treatment it received from Allah? Those who incurred the curse of Allah and His wrath, those of whom He transformed into apes and swine."

Qur'an 2:64
"But you [Jews] went back on your word and were lost losers. So become apes, despised and hated. We made an example out of you."

Qur'an 33:26
"Allah made the Jews leave their homes by terrorizing them so that you killed some and made many captive. And He made you inherit their lands, their homes, and their wealth. He gave you a country you had not traversed before."

Qur'an 4:55
"Sufficient for the Jew is the Flaming Fire!"

Qur'an 5:42
"They are fond of listening to falsehood, of devouring anything forbidden; they are greedy for illicit gain!"

Qur'an 59:6
"What Allah gave as booty to His Messenger, He has taken away from the Jews. Allah gives His Messenger Lordship over whom He will. Whatever booty Allah has given to Muhammad and taken away from the Jewish people of the townships, belongs to Allah and to His Apostle."
Click to expand...
 
justabubba said:
here is what was asserted causing me to ask for a cite to document this was actually expressed by an islamic leader
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You are making a transparent attempt at moving the goal posts. That is in fact not what you asked.
This is what you said:
justabubba said:
i am not acquainted with those statements where the radical islamists

would you please offer a reputable cite
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And that was in response to me saying:
ScummyD
It's really quite amazing. The radical Islamists openly state that they wish to finish off what Hitler couldn't and they have to ask why that is a bad thing.
Click to expand...
And here are just a couple of examples.

ScummyD said:
I have compiled for the last four years+ the Islamists in Their Own Words including numerous events where they have praised Hitler and vowed to finish off what he started. Unfortunately I naively believed that the forum where I did this would be around forever. That forum is now defunct and the only trace one can find is a scant few vague references on Google, but the archives have been removed.

However, here are few samples of radical Islamists praising Hitler and expressing their views of wanting to finish off what he could not. Not included are the innumerable articles and videos of Iranian president Ahmadinejad calling for Israel to be wiped off the map, as these are readily available and easily found.
Click to expand...
 
DeeJayH said:
The leadership in no way ordered soldiers to commit war crimes
and soldiers are allowed to NOT FOLLOW illegal orders
Click to expand...

ScummyD said:
That was found to be an insufficient defense about a half century ago in something called Nuremberg.
Click to expand...


"A key example of such dual-use targeting was the destruction of Iraqi electrical power facilities in Desert Storm. While crippling Iraq’s military command and control capability, destruction of these facilities shut down water purification and sewage treatment plants. As a result, epidemics of gastroenteritis, cholera, and typhoid broke out, leading to perhaps as many as 100,000 civilian deaths and a doubling of the infant mortality rate."
Bombing Dual-Use Targets: Legal, Ethical, and Doctrinal Perspectives

Legally, it is a gray area. Morally, it is clear cut. For my son, moral convictions won out over an immoral military practice. I am very proud of him for standing up for his convictions!
 
Goshin said:
Yup, that would be why we're getting all that free oil from Iraq, and why we're keeping control of the Iraqi oil fields after we pull out, and... Um, waitaminute, we aren't actually doing those things are we? :doh
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Through our invasion and occupation we now have contracts for one of the largest reserves of oil left on the planet for the first time since Saddam kicked us out 35 years ago.

And our Middle East military occupation ensures that no one can cut off our Middle East oil in the future.
 
Catawba said:

"A key example of such dual-use targeting was the destruction of Iraqi electrical power facilities in Desert Storm. While crippling Iraq’s military command and control capability, destruction of these facilities shut down water purification and sewage treatment plants. As a result, epidemics of gastroenteritis, cholera, and typhoid broke out, leading to perhaps as many as 100,000 civilian deaths and a doubling of the infant mortality rate."
Bombing Dual-Use Targets: Legal, Ethical, and Doctrinal Perspectives

Legally, it is a gray area. Morally, it is clear cut. For my son, moral convictions won out over an immoral military practice. I am very proud of him for standing up for his convictions!
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Legally, with respect to what you said about your son only following orders and is therefore not guilty if a crime was committed, you are dead wrong.

And you still have not provided any proof that US forces intentionally targeted innocent civilians.
 
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SteelStorm said:
Islamic terrorism's objective is the rise of their religion as the most dominant political force in the world then what America has done is not as immoral. You can't judge an action without viewing the ends both forces are reaching for.
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The problem being that Iraq were not Islamic terrorists. They never attacked us, nor did they have the capacity to attack us. Since there was no National security threat presented by Iraq, that only leaves our military dominance of the planet's largest oil reserves as the reason for our invasion and occupation.
 
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