• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

How To Fight the Russians in a City

Welcome to Hell! – Fiction

Welcome to Hell! - Fiction


"Rapidity is the essence of war: take advantage of the enemy's unreadiness, make your way by unexpected routes, and attack unguarded spots." – Sun Tzu

“The principle Chechen city defense was the ‘defenseless defense.’ They decided that it was better not to have strong points, but to remain totally mobile and hard to find.” – Timothy Thomas

__________________________________________________

Susan Kignak sat at the counter of Archie’s Sport Fishing and Scenic Boat Tours thumbing through a three-day-old newspaper. She had already read it, but there was nothing else to do, so she read it again. Archie only had one boat out. There was no work for them until it got back.

The Navy continued to blockade the Strait of Malacca, trying to starve the Chinese of oil. Ahmadinejad made more grandiose announcements from his bunker somewhere in Iran. Qatar burned – the photos from there were awful. No matter how much we bombed the Iranians, they never seemed to lose interest in pummeling poor Qatar with more missiles. General Motors was presenting another restructuring proposal to Congress, trying to explain how, with 5% of the market, they were going to repay the $100 billion that the government had now loaned them. Paul Krugman was talking up President Obama’s latest stimulus package in the editorials – this one was sure to lift us out of recession. Blah, blah, blah.

It was all old news. Today was New Years Eve, 2011, and the paper had advertisements for all the big parties at the nightclubs around town. But Susan and her husband Jacque intended to spend a quiet evening at home together. They weren’t into partying. The same could not be said of their sixteen-year-old son, Jake, but he too was going to be spending the evening at home whether he liked it or not.

Snow drifted down outside, blanketing Anchorage, dark already at 3:00 P.M. At this time of year, they only got six hours of daylight. All that darkness was depressing – and the fog didn’t help either. The television and radio stations had been down for three days and there had been no newspapers delivered in that time. It was just as boring as ****!

“Quite a storm,” Susan thought, though in the back of her mind there was a nagging suspicion that something more than just that was going on. It had been quite a storm. But Anchorage had seen storms like this before. None of those storms had shut down all the TV and radio stations – even the AM stations that she never listened to were off the air.

“Hey, come out here and listen to this,” said Archie, from the door.

“What? It’s a secret?” asked Susan, “Zee valls av ears?”

“No. There’s a sound out here. Come outside and listen.”

Reluctantly, Susan pulled her heavy overcoat on and donned her beaver-skin cap – Jacque couldn’t afford to buy his wife a mink one – and went outside. She listened and there was a sound. A sporadic booming noise came out of the fog. It sounded like it came from far off the coast, though in the heavy fog she couldn’t be sure.

“What is it?” she asked Archie, who was peering intently through a pair of binoculars.

“Oh ****,” he said.

And then Susan saw it too. A ship – a battleship – appeared through the fog. It was on fire. Even through the mist she could see flames all along its deck. The little gun in its turret up at the front was firing at something. Suddenly, in a flash of light, a missile was launched from the burning ship and streaked off into the distance.

“That battleship, they’ve had an accident,” she said, “They must have accidentally ignited their powder magazine or something.”

“It’s not a battleship,” said Archie, who had been in the Navy when he was a young man, “It’s a guided missile destroyer – Arleigh Burke Class – probably the Milius, out of San Diego. I heard that they were in the area. I don’t think that fire is an accident.”

The ship, now clearly visible, was listing severely towards its starboard side. Black smoke poured out of a gaping hole in its hull. It turned slowly towards the coast and, a minute later, ran itself aground about a mile from Archie’s Boat Tours.

“I’d better get home,” said Susan, “My husband will be worried about me.” And without another word, she ran to her snow mobile and started the engine.

“That wasn’t an accident. Oh ****. That wasn’t an accident.” Susan kept repeating to herself as she bounced over the snow drifts. “That wasn’t an accident.”

“There was an accident,” announced Susan, as she burst into her living room, “A battleship – I mean, a destroyer – its powder magazine…”

Her husband and his best friend Bill were crouched on the floor in front of what appeared to be two giant up-side-down microphones. At least that’s what they looked like to Susan. They were tubes with a bump on one end like the head of a microphone and an odd bipod thing on the other end. But if it were a microphone, it would have been propped up the other way.

The two men were reading instruction manuals. Jacque leapt up and kissed her. “I’m so glad you’re here. I tried to call Archie, but the phones are down. The CB doesn’t work either – it just screeches – I think they’re jamming the radios. So I waited here for you.”

“What’s going on? What are those things? Where did you get…? Who is jamming the radios?”

“They’re Dragon – actually, Super Dragon – anti-tank missiles. Sarah Palin gave them to us.”

“But… What? Sarah Palin? The governor? What’s going…?” Susan stammered.

“She was standing at the front gate to Fort Richardson with whole pallets full of Dragons. The Army uses the Javelin now, but they’ve got lots of Dragons stockpiled. Palin is handing them out to anybody who will help her fight the Russians.”

“The Russians? The Russians are here? In Anchorage?”

“Yes. They’re here. They’ve invaded,” said her husband and, suddenly embarrassed, he added, “Um… I didn’t get you one – um – I forgot to ask Sarah.”

“But I’ve never fired… I’m not even trained – I mean – I guess they come with instructions? But…”

Realizing that she was babbling, Susan shut her mouth and breathed deeply through her nose.

“Where’s Jake?” she asked.

“He’s with his hockey team. Coach – er – Sergeant Armstrong commanded a Bradley Fighting Vehicle in Iraq, back in 2003. The soldiers at Fort Richardson let him have an extra one that they weren’t using. He’s training the boys in how to crew it.”

“The Army has a lot of equipment and vehicles stockpiled in Alaska, but few personnel – everybody has been sent to Iran,” Bill added, apparently feeling that Susan’s puzzled expression implied that more explanation was necessary.

Susan stood in her living room trying to visualize her son and his fellow Wolverines in combat. “It’s not a video game,” she wanted to tell him; “You can’t just hit the ‘play again’ button if you get killed.” But she guessed he knew that.

“I’ll get my rifle,” she concluded, “I’ve fired rifles all my life. I bought a set of Sniper Flash Cards on the internet. I’m really more familiar with… I mean, I’d rather… than these missiles.”


Visit Welcome to Hell! to read the rest of the story.

BTW The OP is just an outline. If you follow the link you will find a more detailed discussion of tactics for urban combat.

And that's saying nothing for the preexisting gun/sniper culture which elevated sharpshooters, of which many of the most calibrated were women, while the Germans typically looked down on snipers.

Russians just kicked ass.

Russian_woman_at_war8.jpg


Lydmila Pavlyuchenko killed 309 enemy soldiers and officers, including 36 snipers.
 
Last edited:
And that's saying nothing for the preexisting gun/sniper culture which elevated sharpshooters, of which many of the most calibrated were women, while the Germans typically looked down on snipers.

Russians just kicked ass.
[

Russian_woman_at_war8.jpg


Lydmila Pavlyuchenko killed 309 enemy soldiers and officers, including 36 snipers.

This is the thing nobody wants to know in the West. There was no culture. Stalin was openly training snipers and paratroopers to take over Europe, but in the West they saw it and they still see it as some kind of a Russian sport/culture like baseball in the US.
 
The Russians basically leveled Grozny. Infantry patroled the ruins in tandem with tanks .
And?

And?


‘’Fallujah suffered extensive damage to residences, mosques, city services, and businesses. The city, once referred to as the "City of Mosques", had over 200 pre-battle mosques of which 60 or so were destroyed in the fighting. Perhaps half the homes suffered at least some damage. Of the roughly 50,000 buildings in Fallujah, between 7,000 and 10,000 were estimated to have been destroyed in the offensive and from half to two-thirds of the remaining buildings had notable damage.[16][17]
Nevertheless the battle proved to be less than the decisive engagement that the U.S. military had hoped for, some of the nonlocal insurgents were believed to have fled before the military assault along with Zarqawi, leaving mostly local militants behind. Subsequent U.S. military operations against insurgent positions were ineffective at drawing out insurgents into another open battle, and by September 2006 the situation had deteriorated to the point that the Al-Anbar province that contained Fallujah was reported to be in total insurgent control by the U.S. Marine Corps, with the exception of only pacified Fallujah, but now with an insurgent-plagued Ramadi[22][23]’’


Russians basicaly leveled Grozny and moved in tank tandems, as the US did in Fallujah, the difference was that Russians not only achieved but also held to the objective.






The Russians also employed Kontrakniki. These are Russian military vets (mercenaries and all alcoholics) who sign a three year contract. .

1. So, if US Marines sign a contract and are paid for the service they are all mercenaries? This is what we hear from the college and universities professors in the US all the time, I don’t think it is worth of my time to address such a delirium.
2. And what, Russian draftees (non-contratcnics) are not alcoholics? Alcoholism in Russia and in the Russian military is some kind of an exclusive to contractnics?

Clueless as usual.



They are outfitted and supplied by the Russian military, yet they answer to no one. .

Clueless as usual. Contractnics are a part of Russian military. They are volunteers and do not have to be veterans.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cH_E6YSQqTo]YouTube - Ukrainian Army Ad[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOaGgY2yUHw&feature=related]YouTube - Russian Army Promo (VDV Paratroopers)[/ame]

It is a kind of our boys’ thing. Some of us just like it. We do boxing because we like it, believe it or not. Especially when we are 18- 20 years old. We take risks, we want to be brave, strong, fast etc. Indeed Russia widely employed special operation forces – Spetsnaz in Chechnya. They - physically and morally - are the best of the best, the ELITE, the ones all boys want to be like.
It also happens that some seriously think that criminals and Muslim terrorists are evil, some are not going to apologize to Muslims for Beslan [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2Xf2P92fS8]YouTube - Beslan: September, 2004[/ame] and take it quite personal. It also happens that that some take pride in making the fight against these evils to be their job, profession. It is such a psychological thing like patriotism, Mother Russia etc. There is such a breed even in the US, there are Americans who are not willing to apologize to Muslims for 9/11 and to ask Muslims to forget as they have forgotten 9/11. There is such a breed who are not willing to forget, who are proud to be US Marines for instance, who are proud to be Americans. I can even name a few on DP. Spetsnaz selects such people, trains them and takes the few who has been able to go through the training. They are elite, like Navy Seals in the US military, for an example.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQc9douuNqQ&feature=related]YouTube - Saturn spetsnaz team[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3u7AQAzorVo&feature=related]YouTube - Specnaz GRU[/ame]
But alcoholism may be a part of qualification:

What can you do, - it is Russia, Muslim habits of smoking, sniffing and injection are not very popular there.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5oifOBioqQ&feature=related]YouTube - ??? ????????[/ame]




They sometimes man checkpoints, but their main forte is sweep and destroy missions. God help you if your bribe stash is deemed insufficient. .

It does not have to be a stash, sometime a few bottles of vodka may buy your way through.
 
Effective, but effective at what? Simply killing Russians? Drawing the conflict out? Getting their city completely razed?

Effective is a relative term.

A tactic can be effective, but that doesn't mean it's actually successful. I'm asking only because I'd like to know if you're just speaking in general or does your argument go deeper in this specific situation?

Effective in the sense that their strategies would seem extremely situationaly useful to various military contexts.
When someone takes this long to lose to a superpower, I take their tactics seriously.
Im not saying this means I think their strategy was overall correct. Thats a broader question. But in terms of running the strategy theyve run (protracted armed resistance), theyre relatively (to what most would use) effective tactics.

There were two wars in Chechnya. The Chechens won the first war and, five years later, lost the second war.

So the tactics that I describe, based on the First Chechen War, were both effective and, strategically, successful. In that war. To expect field commanders to make tactical decisions based on what might happen in a second war five years hence is unrealistic. One fights the war one is in.

At the Second Chechnya War we read:

Global Security said:
Russian commanders said they had no plan to invade Grozny. Instead, the plan appeared to be to demolish Grozny, then proclaim Chechnya's second city Gudermes, the capital.

On 04 December 1999 the commander of Russian forces in the North Caucasus, General Viktor Kazantsev, claimed that Grozny was fully blockaded by Russian troops. And on 05 December Russian planes, which had been dropping bombs on Grozny, switched to leaflets with an ominous warning: "Persons who stay in the city will be considered terrorists and bandits and will be destroyed by artillery and aviation. There will be no further negotiations." The Russians set a deadline, urging residents of Grozny to leave by 11 December. Russia put the number of people remaining in Grozny at 15,000, while a group of Chechen exiles who in Geneva confirmed other reports estimating the civilian population at 50-thousand.

Russian military officials accused Chechen fighters of blocking the exit of tens of thousands of civilians trapped inside the capital. Civilians trapped in the city have said they are afraid to move not because their own people are stopping them, but because of massive airstrikes and reports of Russian soldiers firing at refugees as they flee. Many civilians still in Grozny are also old and sick, making any travel difficult.

Russian ground troops advanced slowly toward the center from three directions. The strategy appears to be to draw fire from rebels, then pull back and pound the Chechen positions with artillery and rocket fire. A senior general said federal forces hoped to take the city by New Year's Day, but a January blizzard effectively halted the Russian advance into Grozny.

Intense fighting continued into February 2000, though Russian forces were hampered by heavy snow and fierce rebel resistance as they pushed ahead with their all-out assault. Chechen fighters used the weather conditions to step up attacks on federal troops. Well-organized bands of no more than 15 rebel fighters moved freely about the city, often sneaking behind Russian lines and attacking unsuspecting soldiers from the rear. As of 03 February, over 50% of Grozny was firmly held by the federal forces.

In early February 2000 the deputy chief of staff, General Valery Manilov, said the number of troops deployed in Chechnya would be reduced, now that Grozny was in government hands. A Russian spokesman said 93-thousand troops were in Chechnya, but unofficial sources estimate the figure is far higher.

The low estimate was 93,000 Russian troops and there may very well have been as many as a quarter of a million. And this is against 15,000 to 50,000 civilians, most of whom were non-combatants who had been too old or sick to leave.

Against such odds, no amount of tactical acumen is going to help one prevail.
 
The low estimate was 93,000 Russian troops and there may very well have been as many as a quarter of a million. And this is against 15,000 to 50,000 civilians, most of whom were non-combatants who had been too old or sick to leave.

Against such odds, no amount of tactical acumen is going to help one prevail.

Some always represent Muslim terrorists, animals, which cannot even be compared to animals in their cruelty as innocent civilians, old or sick.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8fu0rfDkQA]YouTube - Angry Chechen Mujahid with a Sword[/ame]

innocent women
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_-mY0hk88c&feature=related]YouTube - Dagestan's terrorist women[/ame]

and children

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwMM5WloZQA&feature=related]YouTube - Chechen rebels and their propaganda part 4[/ame]

In fact we have to deal with fanatics raised to be fanatics from the very childhood, who has received military training both in the Soviet military and in all kinds of Muslim camps, who had years of experience of fighting gorilla war and urban combat, who have ‘’as much as it is needed’’ financial support of the Muslim word and ‘’as much as it is needed’’ moral support from the Western liberal media and those who portray them as innocent civilians.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwoBnbKb6Nc]YouTube - Chechen Fighters 2008 (Sayful-Islam)[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8YIZo-82v8&feature=related]YouTube - Chechen Jihad 2000 part 3[/ame]

In 2000 Putin just started – Russia was on the brink of total collapse. The Russian military was in total disaster. The Russian generals were all corrupted and giving up on Russia. The low estimate of Russian troops imposed by admirers of Muslim terrorists posting here is sucked out of their finger, as well as ¼ of a million was impossible logistically and financially for Russia and is no more than Muslim propaganda in all its absurdity.


It is obvious since the WWII and through Fallujah, Grozny and Gaza, where Israel did not even dent Hamas, that in urban combat defenders, and especially gorilla fighters, have all advantage. It is proven that a city has to be blockaded and practically leveled out. It is proven that the attackers have to have more than 4:1 advantage in man power.Tanks and helicopters are not so much of a help unless they use the Russian tactics.

RPG-9 sold by Russian corrupted commissaries to Muslim for $1000 a piece took this $2,000,000 machine down.2 members of the crew were burned alive, the 3rd one tried to rescue them. He still drove the machine and played for all 3 members but was able to fire only 4 cannon shots.


Ooops I lost the bookmark for the video… Does not matter, that was only the guy talking and showing the core of the RPG stuck in the armor.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piypa_eamfs&feature=related]YouTube - CHECHNYA : Attack on russian armored truks[/ame]

Stingers has proven to scare helicopters away. Chechnya SAM - YouTube - Truveo Video Search

The demand of Liberals for some kind of tactics they dream of in their warm chairs in front of their PC is no different from the Russian corrupted commissaries selling RPGs to Muslims. [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TQzTw2vh1k]YouTube - Episodes of chechen war 1996-1999-2000-2004-Beslan-Dagesnat[/ame]
 
Clueless as usual. Contractnics are a part of Russian military. They are volunteers and do not have to be veterans.
Yes you are. Most are veterans. Why do you think the Russian military contracts them? Because they are not conscripts. Volunteers? They are paid mercenaries. Most don't re-up because the pay is abysmal.
 
Some always represent Muslim terrorists, animals, which cannot even be compared to animals in their cruelty as innocent civilians, old or sick.

Global Security is a well-respected source of information on military matters and, along with Parameters, my primary source. I don't think you'll get much traction denouncing them as apologists for "Muslim terrorist animals." Few people mistake Global Security for Al Jazeera.

My outline of tactics, based on my study of the First Chechen War, is about tactics. I really don't care if the Chechens are good people or bad people, devout or irreligious. I ask only how they fight and if it worked for them.

Anyway, you persist in getting the two wars mixed up.

The First Chechen War had nothing to do with religion. They were taken by surprise by the Russians, who attacked on New Years Eve, which is a big drinking holiday in Chechnya. (And, yes, they do drink alcohol; most Chechens are Muslim in name only.) The Chechen defense was motivated primarily by nationalism and a long-standing hatred for the Russians, specifically for the mass deportations of 1944.

I will see if I can find the link, but President Dudayev famously told a Western reporter that he was VERY devout and encouraged all of his men to pray three times a day, just like the Koran specifies. The reporter had to remind him that the Koran actually specifies five prayers a day and he was like, "Right - five - that's what I meant." So, whatever you may think of Dudayev, calling him an Islamic extremist is just not accurate.

During the interwar period, at the same time that Al Queda was rising in Afghanistan, the IIPB (Islamic International Brigade) became a threat to the Chechen government under President Maskhadov. This was largely because the formal economy was devastated, giving Maskhadov an almost non-existent tax base, while the IIPB was making hundreds of millions of dollars by kidnapping people.

Wikipedia said:
President Maskhadov started a major campaign against hostage-takers, and on October 25, 1998, Shadid Bargishev, Chechnya's top anti-kidnapping official, was killed in a remote-controlled car bombing. Bargishev's colleagues then insisted they would not be intimidated by the attack and would go ahead with their offensive. Political violence and religious extremism, blamed on "Wahhabism", was rife. In 1998, Grozny authorities declared a state of emergency. Tensions led to open clashes between the Chechen National Guard and Islamist militants, such as the July 1998 confrontation in Gudermes.

The Second Chechen War was initiated by a series of apartment building bombings in Moscow, which the Russians blamed on the Chechens. To this day, it is not clear who actually blew up those apartment building, or to what end. The action does not seem to be in anybody's best interest. It is not inconceivable that the Russian government did this to their own people to give themselves an excuse to re-invade Chechnya. But, if anybody in Chechnya was involved, it was almost certainly the IIPB (possibly as part of an extortion scheme), not the Maskhadov government.

So, if you are going to insist on framing every discussion of tactics with talk of "Muslim terrorist animals," then there are indeed some involved in the Second Chechen War. But my outline of tactics is based on the First Chechen War. From a tactical perspective (which is really my only perspective) there is little to learn from the Second Chechen War. The Chechen government was so weak and the Russian government was so much stronger and better organized than they had been in 1995, that the result was almost a forgone conclusion.

Against such odds, no amount of tactical acumen is going to help one prevail.
 
Global Security is a well-respected source of information on military matters and, along with Parameters, my primary source. I don't think you'll get much traction denouncing them as apologists for "Muslim terrorist animals." Few people mistake Global Security for Al Jazeera.

My outline of tactics, based on my study of the First Chechen War, is about tactics. I really don't care if the Chechens are good people or bad people, devout or irreligious. I ask only how they fight and if it worked for them.

Anyway, you persist in getting the two wars mixed up.

The First Chechen War had nothing to do with religion. They were taken by surprise by the Russians, who attacked on New Years Eve, which is a big drinking holiday in Chechnya. (And, yes, they do drink alcohol; most Chechens are Muslim in name only.) The Chechen defense was motivated primarily by nationalism and a long-standing hatred for the Russians, specifically for the mass deportations of 1944.

I will see if I can find the link, but President Dudayev famously told a Western reporter that he was VERY devout and encouraged all of his men to pray three times a day, just like the Koran specifies. The reporter had to remind him that the Koran actually specifies five prayers a day and he was like, "Right - five - that's what I meant." So, whatever you may think of Dudayev, calling him an Islamic extremist is just not accurate.

During the interwar period, at the same time that Al Queda was rising in Afghanistan, the IIPB (Islamic International Brigade) became a threat to the Chechen government under President Maskhadov. This was largely because the formal economy was devastated, giving Maskhadov an almost non-existent tax base, while the IIPB was making hundreds of millions of dollars by kidnapping people.



The Second Chechen War was initiated by a series of apartment building bombings in Moscow, which the Russians blamed on the Chechens. To this day, it is not clear who actually blew up those apartment building, or to what end. The action does not seem to be in anybody's best interest. It is not inconceivable that the Russian government did this to their own people to give themselves an excuse to re-invade Chechnya. But, if anybody in Chechnya was involved, it was almost certainly the IIPB (possibly as part of an extortion scheme), not the Maskhadov government.

So, if you are going to insist on framing every discussion of tactics with talk of "Muslim terrorist animals," then there are indeed some involved in the Second Chechen War. But my outline of tactics is based on the First Chechen War. From a tactical perspective (which is really my only perspective) there is little to learn from the Second Chechen War. The Chechen government was so weak and the Russian government was so much stronger and better organized than they had been in 1995, that the result was almost a forgone conclusion.

I particularly addressed the post #30 http://www.debatepolitics.com/war-terror/49655-how-fight-russians-city-3.html#post1058076985 the 2nd war as you called it, ( I understood that you were meaning 1999-2000) and the particular words of yours I quoted.

I cannot see any objection of yours to my arguments.

As to the additional info you are supplying, indeed Dudaev, a Soviet general was not so much of a Muslim by definition, as of a nationalist and an opportunist. It does not mean that he did not appeal to Muslim feelings strong in Chechens. Dudaev says - ‘we are Muslims’ and the fact that he had to show that he was an atheist during all his carrier in the USSR and his personal lack of knowledge of rituals does not diminish the fact that he involves and refers to Islam. You yourself, bringing his words prove that the first war had as well to do to religion, as to everything else listed and not listed by you, including oil, money, Chechen and Russian criminals and mafia.

If Russians blamed Chechens it may be an official Russian position. Unless you have a proof of the opposite, your “unclear’ is a conspiracy theory. Whatsoever Chechnya was an inflammatory cancerous spot and it had to be dealt with.

The Chechen ‘’government’’ was not ‘’so weak’’ as you are trying to represent, because it was employing and was helped by the Muslim world, including highly trained and experienced Muslim mercenaries, and because of many other reasons. And the Russian government not was so much stronger and better organized than it had been in 1995, because actually from 1995 to 1999 Russia was spiraling down, not moving up. The leadership just changed and Putin just started, and of course he was mush stronger, but it did not mean that he changed everything within a few months.

‘’ the result was’’ no more ‘’almost a forgone conclusion’’, as it could be in 1995, if Russia did not learned its mistakes and if it was not led by Putin. Whatsoever, if to take Fallujah vs. the US and Hamas vs IDF and Chechnya vs. Russia, Hamas gov-nt and Fallujah were not any stronger than The Chechen ‘’government’’, actually they were a lot weaker, but only Russia was successful. If you could suggest and defend another possible tactic rather than saying that nothing can be learned from Russians, if you could compare with more successful tactics of fighting Muslim fanatics in urban combat, when Muslims are all supported by women and children and know the terrain, and use their tactics including evil brutality - if you could, you would.
But when you can’t point to anything supporting your conclusions, and when you can’t point to anything supporting ‘’old and sick’’, and the number of old and sick, when you completely discount the real abilities of Muslim fanatics, when you cannot lay down a need and a possibility of logistic of ¼ million, when you do not address my points, then you as boring and dull as Tashah, even if you have some clues.
 
Yes you are. Most are veterans. Why do you think the Russian military contracts them? Because they are not conscripts. Volunteers? They are paid mercenaries. Most don't re-up because the pay is abysmal.


1. Try to get some clue. I asked you a question – the US Marines are paid, contractniki are paid, the US marines sign and extend contracts, contractniki do the same, - why contractniki are mercenaries and the US Marines are not? The hint is – you cannot say they are mercenaries, unless you answer this question. You cannot say they are mercenaries unless you provide some facts, sources, links.

2. You said they are veterans, - now you change to ’’ most of them’’. Many of them indeed volunteer after regular service, in the same way as many volunteer for police after service in military in the US. When I say volunteer I of course do not mean they do it for free. May be I should have found a better word, - no, they as well as police in the US do it for money, and for a better pay than they could get anywhere else. It should be clear from all my description. Like some of those who celebrate the professional day of VDV in Orenburg on the video, may sober up and go back again for 3 years. It does not mean that anybody is accepted. And of course though drinking is the main fun in Russia it does not make them ‘’all alcoholics’’ in the meaning you are putting in. The requirements of the profession does not allow alcoholism as it can be seen on videos I posted, and on this one – the final exam, graduation – after hours of non-stop running through rough terrain, shooting and push ups each of them has to withstand 5 minutes of kick boxing with a fresh instructor, and not only to withstand, but kick back in order to pass: (This particular unit is called Vityaz – Knight) [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XKFfY4f2iU]YouTube - Russian Special Force - Red Berets[/ame]

I may post more link, sorces, videos and translate – proving that they all were there in Chechnya, - OMON, SOBR (СОБР), Spetsnaz of all kinds not even mentioned here:
BBC NEWS | Europe | Spetsnaz: Russia's elite force
“Spetsnaz recruits are sometimes hand-picked from the conventional military, usually those showing signs of the toughness of character and ability to use initiative.”
[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spetsnaz]Spetsnaz - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
‘’ In the United States, despite the focus on the War on Terror in Iraq and Afghanistan, there is still some training conducted at Fort Irwin's National Training Center and Fort Polk's Joint Readiness Training Center for countering Spetsnaz in the rear areas of NATO. Spetsnaz is still, almost twenty years after the end of the Cold War, regarded as a real threat.’’

[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OMON]OMON - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vp8YvVCPs1s&feature=related]YouTube - OMON Spiderman[/ame]
[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SOBR]SOBR - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

How to get into special forces? First read, then ask! insane colonel answers ridiculous questions in the heap Google Translate

Can I go after the University of MVD in SOBR? Specialty - Law enforcement (Lawyer)


Back to top

Glen
Moderator


Joined: 21.12.2003
Posts: 1097 can

The first one must have a brain that even a little bit to reflect that all troops of special forces are subject to SPN federal target program (or simple to contract) – draftees are less and less in this program and for 2009-2010 there will not be any left. However, while some parts still recruiting l / s and beyond the call of what I list. Remember at this time the army moved to the regional principle of acquisition, that is where they live and serve (well at least trying not to move anywhere but on this coming) If you are such a romantic boy who to shivering in his knees wants to be in SPN ask whether there are in your area...

- ISlava wrote (a):
Good day! Tell me, I am studying the second year in a law school , is there a chance to join the SOBR (pending graduation)?-Served in the military (both regular and under contract)
Thanks in advance.


chance there is of course ... but not a particularly ... because in order for you must be certified in secondary education (college) at least ... if the latter course is more options ... although it all depends on the leadership, staffing in the unit (a high demand at the moment is) and how you would be liked ...., in principle, they may take you, but without the diploma you will not get the rank of officer....

Google Translate






Google Translate

Google Translate



Google Translate





As the matter of the facts quoted and videos shown, Sptcnaz which has different kinds of units recruits all kind of people, and prior service is not a must for all units (some start training when still on the high school [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=156A2Erg2zo&feature=channel]YouTube - ??????? ????????[/ame] ), while it is a requirement for other units. As the Col points in 2009 - 2010 all recruits of Spetsnaz are planned to be contractniki, like military in the US. I pointed it to you so many times, I provided, links, sources, videos, translations, but you still cannot get a clue. You need no sources, no links, no references… you wouldn’t even understand such a requirement.

I have no hope that I can get into your head and change anything, if there is something there. You still will be going around repeating your beliefs, - mercenaries, all alcoholics, etc… But some may be interested.




A Major [rank] of the Russian police (OMON) against a world champion, an officer of the American police, .


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNp5wg1o1rk&feature=related]YouTube - Russian Omon vs Swat[/ame]
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom